The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

IMO to beat the gtards skins need to playaction/screen/slant on 1st down then pound the rock on second and third downs to a)keep the giants off balence then B) pound portis on second and third................Jzeee should stick to this for the most part more or less......This game early commitment to the run is going to be crucial........what think you fellow skins

It may be a lot of common sense, but it all starts with the line. We need to have the holes open for Portis, and Campbell needs to have the time in the pocket to make the good decisions that we've seen he's capable of this season.

I'd like to see Kelly and Thomas really step it up this game, getting open and making the plays that they need to. That will open up Moss and ey for some bigger gains, and make the Gnats play off the line a bit.

However, as I said, the real focus needs to be pass protection for Jason and holes for Portis.

Let's put those Gnats in their place, and show that we still have some left in the tank Hail!

I obviously like to see Portis go off with the running game,if he could get 100 yards I like our chances. I really hope they let Jason take some deep shots down the field instead of the normal 10 yard passes.

I think we need 2nd to be 4 to go or 5 to go. We need to average 5 yds on 1st down. Thats it.

yeah quick slant to moss/thomas........screen to cooley/ sellars on 1st then pound pound pound......giants are fast but small wear um down keep it close dominate the 4th quarter

Californiaskin wrote:IMO to beat the gtards skins need to playaction/screen/slant on 1st down then pound the rock on second and third downs to a)keep the giants off balence then B) pound portis on second and third................Jzeee should stick to this for the most part more or less......This game early commitment to the run is going to be crucial........what think you fellow skins

I frankly think we're over matched on both lines and neither the ground game nor the passing game with a QB slow to throw can account for much.

We're also too dinged up to play superb D.

We need to do something off the wall-- like throw on almost every down from the shotgun, start Collins with Davis, ey. Moss, and Kelly on the field at the same time. Use trick plays, misdirection, hurry up, etc. This game should test Zorn's ingenuity. He needs to protect Portis from further injury and prevail against a far better team.

I repeat. We are not going to run on the Giants using conventional plays.
We are not going to protect the passer against their rush.

To beat the Giants we have to score more points than them.

If we do that I guarantee we will win@!

That theory is flawed. If you run quick slants and such, then it still doesn't open up the D. We need more shots downfield early to loosen up the box. They have a fierce from 4, if they have the backers up close in run support, then it's going to be a long day.

I disagree and agree at the same time. I agree we need to pound the ball down their throats, that is the only way we can keep their offense off the field and OUR defefense off the field, we need desperatly to dominate the time of possession.

But I would rather runs on 1st down, then screens/pass on 2nd down. Remember we are not playing a crappy defense. This pass rush is unbelievable and our O Line has not been stellar. If we get into passing on 1st down and start getting sacked, then your whole drive is screwed. If you get into passing on 1st downs and throw incompletions or get sacked now your into 2nd and long and with a good run on 2nd down your at still at 3rd and 5.

Now if you run on 1st down, a good run sets up 2nd and6. Now you can pass the ball and even if you throw a incompletion your in the boat as scenario 1. Also if we can run the ball on 1st down consistantly, that will set up the play action later in the game on 1st down which could = big plays.

VetSkinsFan wrote:That theory is flawed. If you run quick slants and such, then it still doesn't open up the D. We need more shots downfield early to loosen up the box. They have a fierce from 4, if they have the backers up close in run support, then it's going to be a long day.

Spread wide out right? Like 5 WR sets will do the trick.. there's bound to be a LB/WR matchup we could exploit for sure.. our WRs are pretty swift.. even ey could benefit

Y'know, I know Jim Zorn hasn't been a coach for even a full year yet, but it seems he's gotten away from what made him so successful early on.

In the early part of the season he was tricky. He ran from passing formations and passed from running formations.

We saw a lot of play action, and even a draw play where Jason pump-faked before handing the ball off to CP.

Defenses know our weak spot is the O-line, so they send these 6-man blitzes at us. We need to establish the run, and use play-action and the PA-bootleg to open up the pass. Jason needs to pump-fake before he throws on short routes to get the defense to jump early and clear his passing lane.

I also think now would be a good time to break out the no-huddle. Jason always seems to do better in the no-huddle.

I'm looking forward to a good game but I find it hard to believe that some here feel that our only chance is to try and do something different or run plays or players we have not used much or who have not practised and played together much

After 11 games:
We are #7 against the rush, the giants are #1 running the ball.
We are #3 running the ball, the giants are #6 against the rush.

Both teams are good at running the ball so the passing games for both are not that great but the Redskins are #4 in pass defense (and much improved lately) and the giants are #8

Our scoring defense is #6 and the giants are #5 - so both are good

Our Total defense is ranked #3 and the giants are #5

I think we should expect a good close game but I would be very surprised if either team gets too far away from what has worked before.

GO SKINS

Stats only mean so much.

Especially in a division game. Anything can happen.

These guys do have some good points. We were much more successful early in the year. No one had game planned for JZ's game plan.

One it was discovered, that we don't pick up the blitz well, then other teams had a game plan to use against us. Plus, I think JZ changed his game plan to try to conter this, but thus far hasn't had great results.


To that is KEY in this game. JZ has to come up with a way to back their D up.

Some posts here have been good Ideas. Running at a pass rush, sometimes slows them down. Screens sometimes work, quick slants, towards the missing LB. All of these, only work for short gains, and don't back the D up, unless you consistanly make these work. Then, the giants will have to do something different.

But the big play is exactly what we are missing. No team respects a big play that isn't there. if we hit just one big play, they have no choice but to be careful of the deep ball, which will back them up.

Even in our "W"s lately, the only highlights are 15 yard runs by Portis.

All teams in the NFL that are winning have big play highlights. And that is what we are missing.

I can't discount JZ for trying. He has been trying. We just havn't connected. But, these guys are skilled, and JZ keeps giving them the shots. These big play shots will connect. We need one, maybe two 50+ plays in this game. IMO

Totally agree that stats can be manipulated in a lot of ways - one thing that is a constant is that the best teams in the NFL after 11 weeks are not teams that are ranked statistically very high in the passing game

The Titans, Steelers, Jets, Giants are all ranked #16 or worse



I think the team that wins this (and most games) is the team that can run when they want to - I do not think the team that has to throw the ball will win.

Thrash and ARE aren't threats. We need to get Kelly the ball and ey also. We have to get the heat off of Moss.

SkinsJock wrote:Totally agree that stats can be manipulated in a lot of ways - one thing that is a constant is that the best teams in the NFL after 11 weeks are not teams that are ranked statistically very high in the passing game

The Titans, Steelers, Jets, Giants are all ranked #16 or worse



I think the team that wins this (and most games) is the team that can run when they want to - I do not think the team that has to throw the ball will win.

True, but even the team you mentioned has many big play highlights.

Jets have some big passing plays, as well as the Giants, regardless of their passing stats, you have to watch Plaxico, if he's going deep.

And the Steelers, Hinds has his highlights every year.

The Titans don't have many big passing plays to speak of, but how many times has White or Chris Johnson broke long plays on the ground for TDs.

All the teams you listed have big plays.

SkinsJock wrote:I'm looking forward to a good game but I find it hard to believe that some here feel that our only chance is to try and do something different or run plays or players we have not used much or who have not practised and played together much

After 11 games:
We are #7 against the rush, the giants are #1 running the ball.
We are #3 running the ball, the giants are #6 against the rush.

Both teams are good at running the ball so the passing games for both are not that great but the Redskins are #4 in pass defense (and much improved lately) and the giants are #8

Our scoring defense is #6 and the giants are #5 - so both are good

Our Total defense is ranked #3 and the giants are #5

I think we should expect a good close game but I would be very surprised if either team gets too far away from what has worked before.

GO SKINS

Portis is super tired and super dinged, everything from his knees and hips to neck. We need to get by this game with him intact and ready for the following drive to the playoffs. It's unlikely we'll beat the Giants-- as least not likely enough to risk out meal ticket, who's really too dinged up for many carries.

We do some of you think we'll going to run it down their throats with? Why do you think our old OL can wear out the Giant's D? What have you been smoking?.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'm looking forward to a good game but I find it hard to believe that some here feel that our only chance is to try and do something different or run plays or players we have not used much or who have not practised and played together much

After 11 games:
We are #7 against the rush, the giants are #1 running the ball.
We are #3 running the ball, the giants are #6 against the rush.

Both teams are good at running the ball so the passing games for both are not that great but the Redskins are #4 in pass defense (and much improved lately) and the giants are #8

Our scoring defense is #6 and the giants are #5 - so both are good

Our Total defense is ranked #3 and the giants are #5

I think we should expect a good close game but I would be very surprised if either team gets too far away from what has worked before.

GO SKINS

Portis is super tired and super dinged, everything from his knees and hips to neck. We need to get by this game with him intact and ready for the following drive to the playoffs. It's unlikely we'll beat the Giants-- as least not likely enough to risk out meal ticket, who's really too dinged up for many carries.

We do some of you think we'll going to run it down their throats with? Why do you think our old OL can wear out the Giant's D? What have you been smoking?.

Maybe b/c the passing game is barely anemic and the only way we win is on the ground?!?? Which team have you been watching?

when we played Dallas, people posted "we should keep CP out of this game to save him for the playoff run"

Then against Seattle, people posted "we should save CP for the playoff run"

Now, people are posting "we need to save CP for the playoff run".

My question is, when does this "playoff run" start?

We are 7-4 along with Dallas, with us having the tie breaker. I don't think we exactly have the Playoffs in the bag, to be resting people. Or is our record really 11-0 and no one told me?

IF we win we will do it with a running game AND the modified passing game that Zorn has been using. The passing game does not need to have any long pass completions; it just needs to be as it has been (BTW we are 7-4) and IF we have a lot of yards after the catch so much the better.

We also need to be able to stop the run especially in the 4th quarter

there you go - so easy a caveman can figure it out

we do not need to be exciting we just need to do what we have been doing.

patience is a good thing - too many bad things happen when you throw the ball too much

this is going to be a good game and it will not surprise too many if we win

Given the Giants are #1 scoring offense in the NFL at almost 30 per game, and their defense is equal to ours at 18.1 per game, we need to step up the offense in order to have a chance to win.

Our D has been solid all year, without a single game giving up more than 24. So I expect that we can keep the Gnats down to a manageable 20 points. If, in doing so, the D can give us a short field a couple of times, and we can capitalize on that, we can stay within a score.

We aren't going to stop the pass rush, so we need to beat that pass rush. This is going to come down to Zorn and Campbell. Zorn needs a great game plan, and Campbell needs to execute it well. Clinton is too banged up to expect him to carry the team this week.....the other players need to step up and play at an NFL offensive professional level.

If we win, it will be 20-17, 24-21 something like that. If we lose it could be anything from 20-10 to 35-17.

crazyhorse1 wrote:
Portis is super tired and super dinged, everything from his knees and hips to neck. We need to get by this game with him intact and ready for the following drive to the playoffs. It's unlikely we'll beat the Giants-- as least not likely enough to risk out meal ticket, who's really too dinged up for many carries.

We do some of you think we'll going to run it down their throats with? Why do you think our old OL can wear out the Giant's D? What have you been smoking?.

So let me understand:
"Portis is super tired and super dinged, everything from his knees and hips to neck." you know this how? I would assume that most are feeling a little sore and "dinged" at this time BUT you know that he specifically is feeling "super tired and super dinged"

"It's unlikely we'll beat the Giants" Thankfully the team does not think this - I would love you to stand in front of the team and say "listen up guys - you really need to just take it easy here - we really do not have a very good chance today so don't take any chances and do not hurt yourself ... Tell you what - lets all meet later and have a nice dinner together with our 'meal ticket' cause we are gonna rest him up so he will be there for us later this season" ... complete BS

"We do some of you think we'll going to run it down their throats with?" please help me - "we do some of you" - I'm missing something here I do not smoke but, maybe ... well you get the picture - DUH

This is a football game and you do not seem to be able to paint a picture, let alone express yourself in a manner that makes any sense - leave us alone

SkinsJock wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:
Portis is super tired and super dinged, everything from his knees and hips to neck. We need to get by this game with him intact and ready for the following drive to the playoffs. It's unlikely we'll beat the Giants-- as least not likely enough to risk out meal ticket, who's really too dinged up for many carries.

We do some of you think we'll going to run it down their throats with? Why do you think our old OL can wear out the Giant's D? What have you been smoking?.

So let me understand:
"Portis is super tired and super dinged, everything from his knees and hips to neck." you know this how? I would assume that most are feeling a little sore and "dinged" at this time BUT you know that he specifically is feeling "super tired and super dinged"

"It's unlikely we'll beat the Giants" Thankfully the team does not think this - I would love you to stand in front of the team and say "listen up guys - you really need to just take it easy here - we really do not have a very good chance today so don't take any chances and do not hurt yourself ... Tell you what - lets all meet later and have a nice dinner together with our 'meal ticket' cause we are gonna rest him up so he will be there for us later this season" ... complete BS

"We do some of you think we'll going to run it down their throats with?" please help me - "we do some of you" - I'm missing something here I do not smoke but, maybe ... well you get the picture - DUH

This is a football game and you do not seem to be able to paint a picture, let alone express yourself in a manner that makes any sense - leave us alone

Illegal post. But I'll not respond in kind. I'll try to paint a clearer picture.
Why do some of you think we can run it down the Giant's throat? Our great runner is not practicing this week because he's dinged up and the Giant's defense line is far better than our offensive line. Ergo, we had better go into the game with a game plan that features a means of avoiding the pass rush and getting the ball to our receivers.

it is redskins football and that isn't only the oline vs the dline or the dings that portis will battle threw it is an orginization. and we as fans should be part of that,now there will be questions, can betts go...yes; are we poised and throwing the football to recievers that can catch the ball yes, unless there is a complete breakdown somewhere, I think the entire season is right in front of the skins and that is 60 minutes of football to beat the giants, it can be done and will be done. this redskins offense spreads the ball around and attacks defenses well enough to maintain drives and to convert then the defense will be great, and all those numbers are there. this is a great match up statistically Add kelly down the field for a bomb and there you have it another W. happy thanks giving
oh our place kicker needs atleast 2 fieldgoals just for good measure and well put em away with 7 in the fourth.
as for the defense: good tackling and d-line responsibilities will open up a ton of shots on third down to pummel Eli the backers can run around and make plays. hpoefully creating some turn overs.
adversity will built character and I believe that this is tyhe best prepared skins team kudos to zorn
Skins 13 giants 10, players of the game #26 offense, #48 on defense.

You have get Moss involved "early" and "often". He is big key to our running game, it opens play action, andfrees up the cut back lanes for Portis. New Yorks d-line is playing with alot of confidence. We need to put them back on their heels a little to be successful sunday. Fletcher injury worries me.