The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I mentioned this in the game thread against the cowboys and saw user jmooney mention it as well. It seems that Laron is one of the best athletes on our team and he was drafted to play close to the line of scrimmage to take advanatage of his blitzing abilities and RB/TE coverage skills. I understand why he was moved to FS last year with the tragedy to ST, but it seems to me that we are missing out on his skills he provides to our team. I have yet to see him make an impact this year from his FS position and am curious if you guys think we don't hear his name much because he's playing the position very good or if you think he's a poor fit for FS. I'd like to see him play SS more, he seems like he has a great gift of getting into the backfield and causing the QB problems and that's something our D needs right now. I'm not sure we have a better option at FS and perhaps that's the biggest reason he's still there but I think i could take my chances with someone else. Your thoughts.

I think your point is spot on. Gregg Williams adopted a mindset a couple of years ago that, no matter what, his defense wasn't going to get beat for a long touchdown pass. So he proceeded to put his best playmaker, Taylor, 20 yards from the action in order to discourage anyone from trying.

And as you point out, when Taylor died Williams -- and now Blache -- adjusted by putting the second-best playmaker, Landry, in the same position.

We put our best playmakers so far from the action they might as well buy a ticket, then we wonder why they're not more involved. We play our corners six to eight yards off the ball and wonder why they're not making interceptions. We deliberately give up the short zones to receivers and wonder why our pass rush can't sack a quarterback who only has to make a three-step drop to complete a quick slant.

Our whole defensive philosophy is based on the idea of keeping our defense on the field for three-quarters of the game, then we wonder why Dallas can run the ball at will in the final minutes.

When you don't ask your defense to make plays, it probably won't.

i have had long talks with my fellow skins season tix holder.....

we are in the same boat as when ST21 was moved to SS cause of that bum adam arch. was awful!! ST21 was playing out of position and it affected his play, it did not get resolved until we got LL30....ST21 was a FS and took one for the team moving to SS

sadly we are in the same boat! LL30 has been moved to fs and he is clearly a ss with his abiltiy to play close to the LOS not 25 yards deep...the best way this gets resolved is to get a legit FS to move LL30 back to ss (i knw this puts horton on the bench, but he will play plenty if this happend)

We play our corners six to eight yards off the ball and wonder why they're not making interceptions.

Did you stop watching the DB's when Williams left? Our corners play a huge amount of bump coverage. It's not last year's scheme. Bump coverage actually produces fewer picks, because the corner can't look in at the QB. If done well, however, it produces more passes defended... as it has this year with the 'skins.

They are playing exceptionally well.

Countertrey I couldnt agree more. Its not the defense...

Skinna Mob wrote:Countertrey I couldnt agree more. Its not the defense...

It's not the defense, no. I think you missed the point though. Landry would be much more of a playmaker closer to the line of scrimmage. Right now he's just playing centerfield and preventing the big play. Seems like a slight waste of his talents, at least to me. I have no answer as to who to put back there, but I don't think that Landry is being used to the accentuate his strengths.

Landry is doing fine.

I just think people would like to see a pass rush. This is why people are suggesting using Landry near the line.

The pass rush is so pathetic! Since we dont have one I think we need to get creative.

I would blitz Horton, Rocky and the defensive line in a Cover 3 Scheme. Or Rocky and Landry with the remaining four defensive lineman. Occasionally blitzing all three with a 3 deep blanket behind them.

We could afford to do this with the outstanding depth at CB.

The Secondary has actually been coming up with interceptions , its the offense that has not converted the turnovers to points.

We have a true FS his name is Shawn Springs. Then move LL.

SkinsHead56 wrote:We have a true FS his name is Shawn Springs. Then move LL.

not too bad...but he's probably our best corner when healthy...

oneman56 wrote:I mentioned this in the game thread against the cowboys and saw user jmooney mention it as well. It seems that Laron is one of the best athletes on our team and he was drafted to play close to the line of scrimmage to take advanatage of his blitzing abilities and RB/TE coverage skills. I understand why he was moved to FS last year with the tragedy to ST, but it seems to me that we are missing out on his skills he provides to our team. I have yet to see him make an impact this year from his FS position and am curious if you guys think we don't hear his name much because he's playing the position very good or if you think he's a poor fit for FS. I'd like to see him play SS more, he seems like he has a great gift of getting into the backfield and causing the QB problems and that's something our D needs right now. I'm not sure we have a better option at FS and perhaps that's the biggest reason he's still there but I think i could take my chances with someone else. Your thoughts.

You don't hear his name because he doesn't get beat and teams no longer try to beat him. He's basically shut down the long ball against us. That's why he made All-Pro. His contribution has been huge. To move would be a little nuts. Horton is one of the best tackle machines in the league.l

Champsturf wrote:

Skinna Mob wrote:Countertrey I couldnt agree more. Its not the defense...

It's not the defense, no. I think you missed the point though. Landry would be much more of a playmaker closer to the line of scrimmage. Right now he's just playing centerfield and preventing the big play. Seems like a slight waste of his talents, at least to me. I have no answer as to who to put back there, but I don't think that Landry is being used to the accentuate his strengths.

If you read CT's post quoted below:

We play our corners six to eight yards off the ball and wonder why they're not making interceptions.

Did you stop watching the DB's when Williams left? Our corners play a huge amount of bump coverage. It's not last year's scheme. Bump coverage actually produces fewer picks, because the corner can't look in at the QB. If done well, however, it produces more passes defended... as it has this year with the 'skins.

They are playing exceptionally well.

You'll see that CT didn't even address the safety position, he addressed the corners. In CT's assessment of the corners, I believe he was right on.

As for SS/FS, does Horton have the speed to play FS? Last year we (yes a lot of us) were raving about Landry being the 2nd best FS we've had in years (RIP 21). I believe that whoever said it was right in that noone wants to test Landry's speed and athleticism. That's why we haven't gotten burned much deep. I'd rather not hear Landry's name one time and not have a pass longer than 15 yards than hear about a big hit that Landry laid on a 40 yard pass. Yes, it's more exciting if Landry's laying wood, but it's actually better when he doesn't have to.

With cornerback Shawn Springs healthy and willing to play free safety, players believe safety LaRon Landry, the best athlete on the defense, warrants more snaps around the line of scrimmage, acting as the fifth pass rusher. Landry has spent much of the season in a deep position with few other proven coverage options at free safety.

I would also like to see Landry more around the line of scrimmage. I really think he could be more effective there. That would also allow him to cover TE's and RB's on passing plays, giving him more opportunities to make plays and INT's. No doubt Horton has played very well, especially for a rookie, but Landry can also be game changer. Landry sitting 25 yards down field doesn't take advantage of his entire skill package, evident by how little we've heard his name called this year.

I look at Laron Landry like I looked at Sean Taylor. Sean at FS only really blew up this most recent season...he first had to understand how to play the role in stopping deep passes, and then he began to understand how he could roam the field and pick off passes, while still playing centerfield (2 picks in 2005, his second season; 1 pick in 2006, his third season; but then 5 picks in 9 games in 2006, his fourth season).

I feel Landry will follow the same development.

PulpExposure wrote:I feel Landry will follow the same development.

I dunno if Landry has the height. Shawn was tall enough to jump over WR's and even defense jump balls against Randy Moss. Landry just isn't that tall. I'm sure he'll get his fair share of pics but I think he's better suited to play SS... I'm not knocking him at all though.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:I feel Landry will follow the same development.

I dunno if Landry has the height. Shawn was tall enough to jump over WR's and even defense jump balls against Randy Moss. Landry just isn't that tall. I'm sure he'll get his fair share of pics but I think he's better suited to play SS... I'm not knocking him at all though.

No, I know you aren't knocking him. And he's not as tall as Taylor was. They're different players.

But Laron has insane speed...he ran the 40 at 4.35 seconds at the combine. It's a total waste of his speed and cover abilities to put him at SS and keep him in the box, imho.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:I feel Landry will follow the same development.

I dunno if Landry has the height. Shawn was tall enough to jump over WR's and even defense jump balls against Randy Moss. Landry just isn't that tall. I'm sure he'll get his fair share of pics but I think he's better suited to play SS... I'm not knocking him at all though.

No, I know you aren't knocking him. And he's not as tall as Taylor was. They're different players.

But Laron has insane speed...he ran the 40 at 4.35 seconds at the combine. It's a total waste of his speed and cover abilities to put him at SS and keep him in the box, imho.

I'm not so sure. He certainly has the skills to play both FS and SS very well. But if you look at his highlights from LSU, the vast majority of his top plays came from the SS position, even though he was tagged as a FS. His best plays came when he played around the LOS and blitzing QB's with his 4.35 speed. He's currently our fastest safety, so I do understand the idea of keeping him in coverage, but I also recognize the significance in putting him around the LOS, as was alluded to by some of his teammates...

With cornerback Shawn Springs healthy and willing to play free safety, players believe safety LaRon Landry, the best athlete on the defense, warrants more snaps around the line of scrimmage

To be honest, with Landry playing deep, maybe it's not such a bad thing we don't hear from him more often.

I mean, for now it seems like offenses are intentionally avoiding him, but if they were throwing at him, testing him, then there are far worse ways to have one's name mentioned...

Let's ask LL what he wants....how about it.
I bet is answer would be: I just do what dey ask me to do....!!!

No kidding....I like the guy.

Its great that we aren't hearing his name but I'm also afraid that we aren't utilizing him in the best way. If we can get Springs back there, we can get some explosive plays from Landry.

I think Horton screwed up the coaches' plan... The way Kareem Moore was making plays in camp, I think they invisioned giving him time at FS later in the season while Landy moved up to SS... Then Horton came in and filled in so well, I think they've resided themselves to the fact that they have the best available playmaking combo with those two right where they are...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Its great that we aren't hearing his name but I'm also afraid that we aren't utilizing him in the best way. If we can get Springs back there, we can get some explosive plays from Landry.

I agree with Chris and SkinsFreak on this in that IF we have someone like Springs to play FS then I think that Landry will be a bigger contributor closer to the LOS.

I see LL as perhaps being able to help more on the edge runs that Washington was so good at covering. This needs to be resolved next year for sure.

Mostly, I think that LL is going to be the defensive coach on the field - this is a very bright football player and I see him taking over our defensive play-calling in the not too distant future.

I just don't want too many Chiefs and not enough Indians... as the saying goes.

tribeofjudah wrote:I just don't want too many Chiefs and not enough Indians... as the saying goes.

What?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:I just don't want too many Chiefs and not enough Indians... as the saying goes.

What?

in reference to LL being a defensive coach on the field (perhaps somewhere in the future). He needs more experience at this point. London does a fine job for now.

Theres a margin of difference in physical ability between Horton and Landry.

It about the same as the margin was between Landry and Taylor.

The difference for right now is that we have 2 starting SS on the field as opposed to 1 FS, so whos the better SS?

It was a matter of time before a good running team exploited our weakness to stop off-tackle runs, it was exposed a while back, starting with the Giants in week 1. For whatever reason, teams didnt keep doing it until last week. When I have went back over these games, I always thought that weakness was there, we've covered it up well and had some CB's come up and make great plays, ALOT more than they should be.

We better adjust, soon. We've always been stout in the middle against the run, Griffin is just a fire-plug in there.

Now , here comes the radical part Im gonna get crucified for (and its just me thinking)

COULD WE, possibly trade Horton after the season for a high draft pick? I really like the guy but, can we really afford to keep 2 starting STRONG SAFTIES? I dont have any idea what his contract is or even if this is possible. Landry has played FS very well this year and sadly that has been a waste of his talent. We dont play enough of the zone coverages that take advantage of Landry at FS.

Move Springs to FS next year and possibly the year after until we pick up

a player to fill that spot.

Yes, the Dback situation has worked out well for us this year. Horton has been an absolute gem, Landry has been solid and the corners are exceeding expectations BUT, it feels like we can get more out of it.

As far as the whole trading Horton, thing I'm just provoking some thought
as to what some possibilities MIGHT be. I'd like to keep the guy but, is there some good enough value there to address some glaring issues?

Dont kill me