The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Something ive noticed all season that was reinforced by tonights game is that the skins offense looks smooth and strong on the first drive of games. Tonight they drove down the feild on there first drive and punched it in and did nothing the rest of the night. It could be defenses adjusting but im leaning more towards zorn having the first 15 plays or so of the game drawn up like most teams do, then after that the plays are called on the fly, the plays are just predictable and awful. That 4th and 4 play call with moss running a 2 yard route was one of the worst plays ive seen in a while.

I don't know if this is just me, but after that first possession that we had I thought the play calling and our offense stunk up the joint.

the west coast offense is very reliant on people not dropping passes, which is not a strength of this team very often. El, Moss, and Thomas each had key drops that led to killed drives. Campbell looked a lot better than he did against Pitt but he did make one bad decision and could have been quicker with the ball. The offensive line can't block the Nosetackle and that doesn't help things. The only huge problem i saw with playcalling is that not enough runs were called, but obviously we were limited personnel-wise in that department. Basically the first drive resulted in a td because of portis. He is basically the entire offense right now and it will be hard to win when he is not 100%

Portis has been awesome all season. This team is fg(against cleveland) and a miracle punt return(against detroit) from being 4-6. Jason Campbell is terrible and should be benched tomorrow. It's funny that people want to blame the O-line but the same line is sure making holes for Clinton

I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

Gibbs4Life wrote:I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

I like JC as well but I see a bit of Brunnel in him. Throw deep once every half so that the running game gets breathing room. C'mon the arm is a cannon and were doing short passes? THROW DEEP even if it's super overthrown, at least make them think twice about stacking the damn box.

It's funny that people want to blame the O-line but the same line is sure making holes for Clinton

A line can run block and not pass protect. Just take a look at the 2004 Houston Texans.

The problem is not Campbell. It's a combination of bad pass blocking and a rookie HC not making the adjustment for the bad pass blocking. It's obvious to JZ that in order for him to go down the field, JC has to have time. So instead of dropping him straight back and having Samuels and Jansen and now Thomas being beat on the edges and in the middle, use Fred Davis on Jansen's side to chip on the end so that JC can roll out that way and then Davis go into the flat. that would/should give JC an extra second or two to go down the field.

Also, at some point, JC has improvise and use his legs too now that it's apparent that we have a pass protection issue. It's pretty sad that even in the shotgun, JC doesn't get any extra time to throw.

the real problem is the number of touches that CP gets. all season he has been getting 20+ a game and he has been getting over 100 yards.

in the last two games he has had 13 against pitt and 15 against dallas. why on earth is zorn only running his best player 15 times?

that and we dont throw the ball deep but really CP needs more than 15 touches.

Corporate Exec. wrote:Portis has been awesome all season. This team is fg(against cleveland) and a miracle punt return(against detroit) from being 4-6. Jason Campbell is terrible and should be benched tomorrow. It's funny that people want to blame the O-line but the same line is sure making holes for Clinton

i do not argue with this at all... it will be interesting to see in the coming weeks, depending on how this team plays, if JZ would make any changes at the QB position (to clarify, i am NOT calling for this now), considering he was the one who drafted Colt... I also agree with another post that a team can run block and not be able to pass block, obviosuly seems to be the case here... the redskins do need to spread the field more, use the WC offense and make some adjustments to it to keep the D honest...

as for the FG and PR away from being 4-6, you could also argue that this team is a FG (St. Louis) and a catch (last night vs Dallas, pick one of a few crucial dropped passes) away from being 8-2...

I am comfortable saying, i have NO idea what to expect next week against seattle... one thing is for sure, at times this season, JZ has impressed and shown more than enough ability to win, the offense has even impressed me at times... i just hope Snyder gives him time (2 years at least) to try to get something in place and working, b/c i think he has made huge strides with JC in some aspects, just need more time... back to JC for a second, i do feel though, if he makes it through this year, and starts next year, and we do not improve on O, definitely need to go in a new direction at that position...

i think in the offseason, the O-Line needs to be addressed... our D is solid, and i feel if hall can stay out of trouble (both off and on the field), that we need to look to bring him back, and let springs go... that would keep our secondary young, and our LB core (with the exception of Rocky) slightly older overall, but still capable, as i feel Fletcher still has a few years left... however, with Washington's injuries this year, i think it would be wise to address this position either through free agency or the draft, but only after we address the d-line, hopefully a DE...

IMHO

it is not JC17 it is the 5 slugs up front that are terrible

jeremyroyce wrote:I don't know if this is just me, but after that first possession that we had I thought the play calling and our offense stunk up the joint.

the last 2 games have been that way..this stretch run will be just that a stretch if this keeps up..

SKINFAN wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

I like JC as well but I see a bit of Brunnel in him. Throw deep once every half so that the running game gets breathing room. C'mon the arm is a cannon and were doing short passes? THROW DEEP even if it's super overthrown, at least make them think twice about stacking the damn box.

it's not his fought that ARE and Moss dropped two nice throws. That one that Moss dropped in the 4th quarter was a killer. He got behind the secondary and had his hands on the ball, then he tried to turn around in mid-air and dropped it.

spudstr04 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

I like JC as well but I see a bit of Brunnel in him. Throw deep once every half so that the running game gets breathing room. C'mon the arm is a cannon and were doing short passes? THROW DEEP even if it's super overthrown, at least make them think twice about stacking the damn box.

it's not his fought that ARE and Moss dropped two nice throws. That one that Moss dropped in the 4th quarter was a killer. He got behind the secondary and had his hands on the ball, then he tried to turn around in mid-air and dropped it.

Yeah, I think he should have just switched his head to the other side, rather than try to twist his whole body. He could have caught it in stride for a TD. Easy for me to say, right?

JSPB22 wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

I like JC as well but I see a bit of Brunnel in him. Throw deep once every half so that the running game gets breathing room. C'mon the arm is a cannon and were doing short passes? THROW DEEP even if it's super overthrown, at least make them think twice about stacking the damn box.

it's not his fought that ARE and Moss dropped two nice throws. That one that Moss dropped in the 4th quarter was a killer. He got behind the secondary and had his hands on the ball, then he tried to turn around in mid-air and dropped it.

Yeah, I think he should have just switched his head to the other side, rather than try to twist his whole body. He could have caught it in stride for a TD. Easy for me to say, right?

I love Moss, but if he wasn't 2 feet tall, that would have been a TD. That was a great throw.

PulpExposure wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

I like JC as well but I see a bit of Brunnel in him. Throw deep once every half so that the running game gets breathing room. C'mon the arm is a cannon and were doing short passes? THROW DEEP even if it's super overthrown, at least make them think twice about stacking the damn box.

it's not his fought that ARE and Moss dropped two nice throws. That one that Moss dropped in the 4th quarter was a killer. He got behind the secondary and had his hands on the ball, then he tried to turn around in mid-air and dropped it.

Yeah, I think he should have just switched his head to the other side, rather than try to twist his whole body. He could have caught it in stride for a TD. Easy for me to say, right?

I love Moss, but if he wasn't 2 feet tall, that would have been a TD. That was a great throw.

This is why we need to get Thomas in the vertical game. Thomas' height would put him in a great non-jumping opportunity to catch that ball.

The playcalling is atrocious overall. The 1st drive was beautiful, then it was like JZ didn't know what to do. WR screen with no play action or downfield threat? Come on now. All these underneath passes work with OTHER teams b/c they put the ball downfield to back up the secondary. We're not laying the groundwork for the WR screens and 2 yard slants. It's really quite disheartening because I KNOW we have the talent to succeed, it's just not being used.

On CP's limited carries: He's not 100% and we need him NOT to blow his knee out. I would speculate THAT'S why he didn't get his excessively normal carries this week. Last week was a panic after we got behind IMO.

Corporate Exec. wrote:Portis has been awesome all season. This team is fg(against cleveland) and a miracle punt return(against detroit) from being 4-6. Jason Campbell is terrible and should be benched tomorrow. It's funny that people want to blame the O-line but the same line is sure making holes for Clinton

It is the offensive line....Blocking for the run and blocking in pass protection are two different things...You cant go deep with the ball if you dont have time for it to develop. I will say there were a few times I thought Jason held the ball a little longer then he should have. But to call him terrible is a ridiculous statement

JC cna throw a fade... if the line can't hold for a legit downfield play, throw a fade...

VetSkinsFan wrote:JC cna throw a fade... if the line can't hold for a legit downfield play, throw a fade...

LOL, to who? Moss? Thrash? ARE? Jump ball?


I'm laughing and crying....

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:JC cna throw a fade... if the line can't hold for a legit downfield play, throw a fade...

LOL, to who? Moss? Thrash? ARE? Jump ball?


I'm laughing and crying....

I'm not condemning the skins just yet. Do as you will, but we still have the potential to turn it around. I remember what we looked like vs Philly and the 1st Cowboys game and I refuse to be terminally negative.

redskinsrule54 wrote:Something ive noticed all season that was reinforced by tonights game is that the skins offense looks smooth and strong on the first drive of games. Tonight they drove down the feild on there first drive and punched it in and did nothing the rest of the night. It could be defenses adjusting but im leaning more towards zorn having the first 15 plays or so of the game drawn up like most teams do, then after that the plays are called on the fly, the plays are just predictable and awful. That 4th and 4 play call with moss running a 2 yard route was one of the worst plays ive seen in a while.

wait but....there should have been a 2nd and 3rd option for Jcam during that play....come on. So who's really at fault?

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:JC cna throw a fade... if the line can't hold for a legit downfield play, throw a fade...

LOL, to who? Moss? Thrash? ARE? Jump ball?


I'm laughing and crying....

I'm not condemning the skins just yet. Do as you will, but we still have the potential to turn it around. I remember what we looked like vs Philly and the 1st Cowboys game and I refuse to be terminally negative.

I was moreso making fun if their height. Maybe when Malcom comes in...if he comes in...

I realize that Zorn is a west coast guy but i miss throws to cooley down the field. That was a big part of the offense the last couple years that is missing. He is the only legitimate possession receiver on the team right now. It seems like every pass to cooley goes for about 5 yards.

PulpExposure wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:I'm a Jason fan, but Jason is struggling the last two weeks especially

I like JC as well but I see a bit of Brunnel in him. Throw deep once every half so that the running game gets breathing room. C'mon the arm is a cannon and were doing short passes? THROW DEEP even if it's super overthrown, at least make them think twice about stacking the damn box.

it's not his fought that ARE and Moss dropped two nice throws. That one that Moss dropped in the 4th quarter was a killer. He got behind the secondary and had his hands on the ball, then he tried to turn around in mid-air and dropped it.

Yeah, I think he should have just switched his head to the other side, rather than try to twist his whole body. He could have caught it in stride for a TD. Easy for me to say, right?

I love Moss, but if he wasn't 2 feet tall, that would have been a TD. That was a great throw.

It was definitely a catchable ball, but not an easy catch and not a great throw. It was a good throw. A great throw would have led Moss who could have caught it over his shoulder and run in untouched for a standup TD instead of a jump ball. Once a receiver gets behind the defender, a jump ball results from an underthrown pass, however slightly underthrown.

But remember, the Cowboys had some drops too. TO drops a pass or two every game, and that ball Witten dropped would have been a big gainer...there wasn't anyone within 8 yards of him.

Campbell has running ability, as shown in that QB draw which I thought was his best play of the evening.....he dragged tacklers for extra yardage, but he doesn't show a great ability to feel pressure from the backside and takes too many sacks that could be avoided. One sack took us out of FG range, and it was THE LAST THING he should have allowed to happen. This makes the o-line look worse than it really is, similar to how the Cowboys o-line looked worse with Johnson at QB.

If you look at Romo as a comparison, he's far more elusive, and makes plays by avoiding the pressure, buying time for receivers to get open. He also makes plays when about to get sacked, like that shovel pass that got a first down that led to a score. That was a third down play, and that little shovel pass kept the drive alive that led to a TD. That was all Romo, and those are the little things that he does that wind up being the difference. Campbell doesn't do enough of those type of things which can change outcomes of games.

If you look at offenses around the league, one thing is a constant. QB's have about 3 seconds to get the ball off before risking a sack or needing to scramble. 3 seconds....not 3 1/2, and definitely not 4. And the majority of the time, someone is open enough to get the ball off to them at that point. Every split second after that 3, the likelyhood of a successful play diminishes unless the QB scrambles.

This year, Campbell (with lots of coaching from Zorn) has improved in the area of avoiding the right rush, stepping up and throwing, but he's still struggling with backside rush, and is totally lost with pressure up the middle. That was evident the past two games with the Steelers and Cowboys. He's too slow recognizing inside pressure, and too slow to bail out of the pocket.

So I don't agree that he's a terrible QB. He has talent, and has improved his down field throws, but he requires perfect pass pro to be successful. Unfortunately, when playing good teams, you aren't going to have perfect pass pro. That's just a fact. Really good QB's can handle that, and that is the difference between being really good and being just average.

Campbell has terrific athletic ability but average to mediocre QB skills. And at this stage in his career, those skills should be much more advanced.