The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I'm a first time poster:

What is going to happen when Mr.Brunell drops back to pass and half of the other team is knocking him down like they did to Pat Ramsey?

There was all most an every play meeting at the quaterback.

Having a good defence is great but you must also have a line to save your quarterback.

Is this not right?

the oline will be completely different this year...this isnt spurriers team anymore. even with alot of the same player in there. they will look like a hole different o-line

I agree with you ...i thought the line had a REAL rough year...but there was a lot of injury....

by the way MO-Hog welcome aboard.. uve just found the best skins sight on the net

No more college blocking schemes

2 words: JOE BUGEL

Welcome to Hogs.net. I'm truly gald that you are here, but.......

No you're not right. Steve Spurrier, and Patrick Ramsey have to be blamed for most of those sacks last year. And they have to be blamed in that order. Then, you have Dockery, "The Condo," as we call him, who was personally responsible for a few. But hey, he was a rookie, so its to be expected.

Our line has three pro-bowl caliber players on it. Samuels, Jansen, and Thomas are among the best at thier positions. DOckery is a stud and will be an outstanding Guard as well. Freidman is solid. The only position that I see us worrying about at all is possibly center, and thats primarily to add depth.

If you really watched the sacks from last year, you would notice that most came when Spurrier's blocking scheme had a small scatback blocking a defensive end. Defensive coordinators around the league saw this and attacked it. Most of the other sacks came when Patrick held on to the ball for ten seconds trying to throw an 80 yard bomb. And then there was the audibles (Oh what a debacle!) which made our line look bad. Then there were some poor personnel decisions over the last few years, like getting rid of Kenny Watson and Stephen Davis, who could actually block, and then replacing them with guys like Candidate, and Morton, and thinking that they could block linebackers, and ends. Not to mention the fact that if you pass 60% to 70% of the time you are going to get sacked.

Let Joe Bugel do his job and you will see this line cut its sacks in half.

Chad

oafusp wrote:No more college blocking schemes

2 words: JOE BUGEL

Amen

Yea Mo. QB Protection has always been a Hallmark of Joe Gibbs coached teams. You should see a VERY different O-line this year. Jansen, Sammuels and co, will be blasting folks off the ball opening up monster holes. In fact, Portis will probably be a waste 'cuz enven a fat tub like me could rush for 1,500 behind them!!!

u are going to see a tuff well disaplined o-line..i dout we will see many off side calls this year gibbs brought in some of the best coaches. OLD SCHOOL..and they will be practiceing out side all the time. if i remember correctly gibbs only ever took the team inside to practice once or twice and thats because the feaid was flooded

All good insights - Bugel, Patrick too slow to release, etc... But the main reason is Spurrier. The "everyone but the center go long" play will not be around this year.

Double tight end sets, 1 receiver, 1 slot receiver, 1 RB schemes are the norm now. Can't wait though when Coach sneaks in a 4 wideout play and the other team soils they're drawers....

chaddukes:
Now that I think about it, you are 100% right.
But I would like to see them pick up a couple of proven OL men,just in case.

Yep, I think Bugel coming back is almost as important as coach gibbs coming back. I hope my boy Jansen makes the pro bowl this year. How many games do you have to shut down the single-season sack record holder before you are deemed pro bowl material?

jansen has never gotten the recognition he deserves

You also have to remember that we did not have anything close to an actual running game. There will be less people blitzing and less blitzes called with Portis back there.

MO-HOG wrote:I'm a first time poster:

What is going to happen when Mr.Brunell drops back to pass and half of the other team is knocking him down like they did to Pat Ramsey?

There was all most an every play meeting at the quaterback.

Having a good defence is great but you must also have a line to save your quarterback.



Is this not right?

the linemans name will remain the same while others will be different. the biggest difference for everyone will be in a much better system.

welcome to the board hope you enjoy your stay!

MO-HOG wrote:chaddukes:
Now that I think about it, you are 100% right.
But I would like to see them pick up a couple of proven OL men,just in case.

Please do not take offense at what I am about to say.

If you agree with me, but still think we need some "proven" offensive linemen, then you obviously didn't read my post, and you must not know that much about football.

I don't say that to be cruel, but......hello....Our offensive line has to be one of the top five in the league! I'm not saying that the unit is perfect, but it is most certainly not a weakness. In fact its one of our biggest strengths. Thats why Gibbs isn't even looking at O-linemen in Free Agency.

I understand that seeing all those sacks last year would lead you to believe it was the fault of the O-line, but its more complicated than that. The talent that we have on the line is awesome. I mean if we could somehow steal Kevin Mawae from the Jets then we would without a doubt have the number 1 offensive line in the NFL, but that won't happen....I doubt it.....Probably not......Well, who knows.

Chad

i also think that many of the problems on the O-line had to do with lack of continity...O-line is definitely a unit that gets better the more they play together, keeping the same line from last year will help them to gel. as an end result they will play better just because of that. not to mention that have a HOF coach that pays special attention to the "HOGS"...don't worry playa, we'll be fine

In actuality - the OL is the solid core that we are building our team around - I doubt we will see many vet names added because for once in the last 12 years, we have decent depth on the line.

It will change, that much I feel is sure. Spurrier and his schemes that we all loved when he came in are now ridiculed and gone. No one could foresee how this would turn out, but now that we have - I am so glad to have a coach like Gibbs back...

Samuels is overrated, he got tooled on constantly in one-on-one situations (not the TE-spurrier-scheme scenarios) last year and the year before. If you look at a real pro bowl T like Pace or Ogden, you can plainly see a HUGE difference between them and Samuels. Dockery is unproven, but he seems solid. Thomas and Jansen are good, bordering on great but not quite there yet. Friedman is adequate. So all in all it's a good line, I reject any assumption that it's top 5, that is ridiculous. If Kearse lines up on the right side, I predict at least 3.5 sacks for Kurse in his 2 games against sanuels.

One other big factor we are not mentioning, besides the lack of running game last year, and Spurrier's crazy schemes, and Ramsey setting up a lawn chair back there; and that is motivation through winning. It is especially tough to keep giving it your all when you are 3-8 and behind by 20 in the first half. I don't care how good you are, you have to be motivated. But have Portis and a mobile Brunell will help too.

FootLongHog wrote:Samuels is overrated, he got tooled on constantly in one-on-one situations (not the TE-spurrier-scheme scenarios) last year and the year before. If Kearse lines up on the right side, I predict at least 3.5 sacks for Kurse in his 2 games against sanuels.

Yes, Samuels last two years were not the greatest, but I'm sure that the fact that those were the two years he played under a Spurrier scheme has everything to do with it. I don't think that he is overrated. I'm not trying to say that he is Ogden or Pace, those guys are elite. Still Samuels is one of the best tackles in the game, and given the proper scheme he will have a breakout year. Thats my hope anyway.

If you don't think that our line is a top five unit then tell me five other lines that have more talent on them. Keep in mind I'm talking about talent level, not sacks allowed. Sacks allowed are often more of a reflection of the type of scheme than the talent on the line. In other workd I doubt that the Browns or Chargers allowed many sacks, but I don't think it is because thier O-lines are that good.

I like your idea of seeing how many sacks Kearse registers against our line, particularly if he lines up across from Samuels. I'll take that bet, and I'll add this. If Kearse lines up across from Samuels, Gibbs will run the ball right at him. I bet Portis gets at least six 10 yard runs on Kearse's side of the line.

Chad

KC
B'more
MN
GB
Seattle

there's probably more, those are just off the top of my head, but that's 5. Samuels has been worse every year since his rookie season. Our line is good, like top 10 maybe.

Anyways, you can't say that other lines are a product of a system because this line is gonna be a product of a system too (the best system).

yes, we will run at kearse, but the bet is moot anyway because the chances of kurse playing both games is not very good. Still I'd bet on a minimum of 2 sacks total if he starts both games.

I conceed! You have indeed named five teams with more talented O-Lines. I went to footballgaming.com and checked out thier player rankings. I went to the five teams that you mentioned and look at the ratings for thier starters. I then came up with averages for each teams starting O-line. Here are the results.

Wasington = 81.2
Seattle = 81.4
Green Bay = 81.4
Vikings = 84.4
Ravens = 87
Chiefs = 89.3

So Seattle and Green Bay were pretty close. But the Ravens and Chiefs are clearly dominant. Then just out of curiousity I looked at Denvers number, since everyone was saying that Portis was a product of thier line. Thier overall O-Line rating is 82.4. Again better than the skins under Spurriers direction, but will it be the same under Gibbs?

My point about the scheme is that it can work both way. I'm sure our guys stock is falling due to the Spurrier Scheme. I would be willing to bet that it will rise again once we start playing under Gibbs and Bugel. Plus I did our average using Derrick Dockery at LG. That was our weakest position, but Derrick will improve dramatically over the next two years.

Again with the Bets! I bet that in two years our O-line rating will be 84 or better, barring any event that might have Samuels, Jansen, Thomas and Dockery leaving. Of course, thats nearly impossible to predict whether they will be here in two years.

Still, Good Job!

Chad

Coaching, Coaching, Coaching

BUGE!

That is all I have to say - we will be a top 7-8 line this year with Gibbs scheme and Buge to implement it