The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I don't think Thomas is a bust. I think he was a bad pick. He was a one-year wonder in college, which should have been a tip off. I think he must have been a "system" player and that accounts for the stats. Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen even a suggestion of talent from him.

I can't see how we're going to make the playoffs with just one first-rate WR.

You don't like him? Well then... let's just cut him....

crazyhorse1 wrote:I don't think Thomas is a bust. I think he was a bad pick. He was a one-year wonder in college, which should have been a tip off. I think he must have been a "system" player and that accounts for the stats. Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen even a suggestion of talent from him.

I can't see how we're going to make the playoffs with just one first-rate WR.

That's kind of why he dropped to 2nd round status. However, as you pointed out, he only played full-time for one year in college; it's more than possible that he may take a year (or more) to get up to speed to play in the NFL, as opposed to someone who maybe played 3 years in college.

Most good receivers, like good quarterbacks, take several years to develop.

And yes, I know there are some that don't, as well. But historically that's been the case. (I just thought I'd save us all 5-6 posts right off the bat).

Funny, I've seen him making great special teams plays almost every game.

I don't think he's getting much of a chance...

I'll be quite truthful with you when I say that JC doesn't seem to give WR's a chance. I felt he did the same to Lloyd and the dude with the big eyes from the Patriots. Heck the guy that left here for the Saints is doing very good too.

JC can't hit anyone but Moss or ey.... Why is that? ARE is a bum. Yeah I said it. LOL And I mentioned BLloyd, sue me. LOL

A slow start at camp, a complex system, competition against pro athletes, yeah the cards are stacked against him from the start. Will he be better? Yes i belive he will adjust like most WR's it takes a few years. See B Marshall in Denver.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't think he's getting much of a chance...

I'll be quite truthful with you when I say that JC doesn't seem to give WR's a chance.

That may be true, but Thomas has burned Campbell a few times, himself. Those offensive pass interference penalties, for instance, and then the 2nd INT last game was because Thomas cut his route short.

Not exactly the way to earn a QB's trust...

Thomas has also apparently had trouble with blocking and route adjustments when JC audibles.

He does not get the bulk of reps in practice or the games. So I am not writing him off yet.

He hasnt got many chances i dont think and when they try a shot down feild to him jc misses by so much he doesnt even get a shot, id say hes maybe had one pass of over 15 yards to him that he could have atleast had a shot at.

redskinsrule54 wrote:He hasnt got many chances i dont think and when they try a shot down feild to him jc misses by so much he doesnt even get a shot, id say hes maybe had one pass of over 15 yards to him that he could have atleast had a shot at.

yeah, exactly-- i've been forcing myself to remain patient and not render judgement as far as this guy's development and zorn's development OF him... but for god's sake, we can't even just toss up a "go" route to him once or twice a game, let him use his speed and see what he can make of the chance? or even just end up with a pass interference call?? (hopefully DEFENSIVE this time, har har).

because even an incomplete bomb is STILL a positive play for the offense- the defense can't help but know they have to respect it even if you didn't quite connect. the only time they won't respect the deep ball is if you never show them you're willing to attempt it (ahem *BRUNELL* cough cough). then they jam you all damn day and disrupt the timing of your west coasty quick passes, and cram their safeties up to stop the run.

i like trick plays maybe more than anyone else but a throw to Lorenzo Alexander, when [as far as i can recall] Devin Thomas and Fred Davis haven't had a SINGLE target in the endzone all season??? i'm starting to get antsy that zorn doesn't seem to be adapting to our red zone woes. again, i've been trying to be patient with that since i figured "well, he wasn't with us last year, it'll take him a few games or so to figure out that our only decent red zone option has been cooley (which of course is pretty easy to take away if you're a defense who knows that as well).
when we drafted these big guys i actually immediately envisioned/assumed they would not play a huge role in the base offense, but that as soon as we got in the redzone, we would consistently roll out a package that used 2 or 3 of those new guys, along with cooley, portis, and sellers. i still can't really imagine exactly how a defense would be able to consistently stop that- even if the rookies don't have the system down very well yet, i can't see how it would be so difficult there in the red zone just to say "hey, you run a fade, you run a slant, and you just make a right turn at the goal line and drag across the middle" or whatever. doesn't seem like it would need to be too incredibly complicated-- there's really not even enough TIME for it to BECOME complicated in the red zone.

at this point i can't help but think that either these guys are such monumental busts that they can't run a few simple, Football 101 patterns in the red zone, or that zorn isn't adapting as well as he should be in that part of the game.

---DISCLAIMER: i absolutely love zorn as coach and have since the offseason when we got to see his personality and learn about his characteristics. so i'm not against him at all, in fact i think because i am such a big fan, that is why i am disappointed with the red zone issue.

die cowboys die wrote:

redskinsrule54 wrote:He hasnt got many chances i dont think and when they try a shot down feild to him jc misses by so much he doesnt even get a shot, id say hes maybe had one pass of over 15 yards to him that he could have atleast had a shot at.

yeah, exactly-- i've been forcing myself to remain patient and not render judgement as far as this guy's development and zorn's development OF him... but for god's sake, we can't even just toss up a "go" route to him once or twice a game, let him use his speed and see what he can make of the chance? or even just end up with a pass interference call?? (hopefully DEFENSIVE this time, har har).

because even an incomplete bomb is STILL a positive play for the offense- the defense can't help but know they have to respect it even if you didn't quite connect. the only time they won't respect the deep ball is if you never show them you're willing to attempt it (ahem *BRUNELL* cough cough). then they jam you all damn day and disrupt the timing of your west coasty quick passes, and cram their safeties up to stop the run.

i like trick plays maybe more than anyone else but a throw to Lorenzo Alexander, when [as far as i can recall] Devin Thomas and Fred Davis haven't had a SINGLE target in the endzone all season??? i'm starting to get antsy that zorn doesn't seem to be adapting to our red zone woes. again, i've been trying to be patient with that since i figured "well, he wasn't with us last year, it'll take him a few games or so to figure out that our only decent red zone option has been cooley (which of course is pretty easy to take away if you're a defense who knows that as well).
when we drafted these big guys i actually immediately envisioned/assumed they would not play a huge role in the base offense, but that as soon as we got in the redzone, we would consistently roll out a package that used 2 or 3 of those new guys, along with cooley, portis, and sellers. i still can't really imagine exactly how a defense would be able to consistently stop that- even if the rookies don't have the system down very well yet, i can't see how it would be so difficult there in the red zone just to say "hey, you run a fade, you run a slant, and you just make a right turn at the goal line and drag across the middle" or whatever. doesn't seem like it would need to be too incredibly complicated-- there's really not even enough TIME for it to BECOME complicated in the red zone.

at this point i can't help but think that either these guys are such monumental busts that they can't run a few simple, Football 101 patterns in the red zone, or that zorn isn't adapting as well as he should be in that part of the game.

---DISCLAIMER: i absolutely love zorn as coach and have since the offseason when we got to see his personality and learn about his characteristics. so i'm not against him at all, in fact i think because i am such a big fan, that is why i am disappointed with the red zone issue.

Good points, DCD. I can agree with pretty much everything you said!

I also agree with the basis of dcd's post (I can't believe I said that )

I'm not sure if it was because of their late development OR the fact that they did not get the time with Campbell, we just do not seem to use the full arsenal when we get down near the end zone and I'm not sure I've seen a fade route in the end zone with Thomas or anyone at all this year


I am also a big fan of Zorn and for the most part I've liked his approach offensively - I'm hoping that we will see a little more variation in the next 7 games.





btw - I know that we all would love to get back in the playoffs but the more important thing IMO is to get better each year - This year, we drafted for the future not for the now (although Horton is definetly a big hit already) and I'm going to be a little more patient with those top 3 picks as I am still hopeful that those guys could each prove to be really good football players for our team.

I always thought Kelly was a better pick up than Thomas.

Not that Thomas won't be good, I just always felt Kelly's the guy we need. I can see Kelly as an X WR. I just feel Kelly's top potentiental could be something like T.O., Calvin Johnson, or Buress with his size and speed. Maybe not quit as Good, but he could be that type of player. I see Thomas, as being, a Donte Stallworth. He could be a number 1 on a team with bad RWs, but best used as a number 2 guy.

But thats just my

Maybe they could just throw him some short ones to maybe get his confidence up?

We're getting more out of him than we are out of Kelly. I actually like what I've seen out of him so far. I still think that Fred Davis is going to be the best out of the three of them.

Would have still liked to see us pick a pass rusher though.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:We're getting more out of him than we are out of Kelly. I actually like what I've seen out of him so far. I still think that Fred Davis is going to be the best out of the three of them.

Would have still liked to see us pick a pass rusher though.

It's going ot be tough pickins for Davis with ey in front of him. I honestly believe for our and his best interest, we should get him on the field to prove himself, and then trade him out of the conference. I haven't seen it yet, and I don't see Zorn using two TE sets in the future as much as I like to utilize the talent we think Davis has.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:We're getting more out of him than we are out of Kelly. I actually like what I've seen out of him so far. I still think that Fred Davis is going to be the best out of the three of them.

Would have still liked to see us pick a pass rusher though.

It's going ot be tough pickins for Davis with ey in front of him. I honestly believe for our and his best interest, we should get him on the field to prove himself, and then trade him out of the conference. I haven't seen it yet, and I don't see Zorn using two TE sets in the future as much as I like to utilize the talent we think Davis has.

What's up with that anyway? I thought that was the plan, to use two TE sets more. But we don't see it.

Yoder is getting Davis' snaps right now.

...and really, what constitutes a 'bust' in today's NFL? The inability to contribute immediately? Zorn was all over the place in the preseason talking about how the two big WR's were nowhere near where they needed to be to help right away.
Ryan Leaf was a bust. He had plenty of time to prove it.
Desmond Howard was considered a bust...but made a name for himself later.
Give the kid some time. Once JC sees that he can hold on to what comes his way, and that he'll continue to make those blitz pickups and contribute on ST's...he'll show then whether he's truly a bust or not.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:We're getting more out of him than we are out of Kelly. I actually like what I've seen out of him so far. I still think that Fred Davis is going to be the best out of the three of them.

Would have still liked to see us pick a pass rusher though.

It's going ot be tough pickins for Davis with ey in front of him. I honestly believe for our and his best interest, we should get him on the field to prove himself, and then trade him out of the conference. I haven't seen it yet, and I don't see Zorn using two TE sets in the future as much as I like to utilize the talent we think Davis has.

Why trade him??? The only thing Davis needs right now is some experience and to be the TE that can block. ey is not the greatest blocker but if you can get away with having two TE's that can catch and one that is good at blocking why not keep them and find ways to use both of them. ey ain't Superman and needs a blow every now and then. So Davis comes in and we don't lose much. They got the same thing going on in Cowgirl country. Bennett is behind Witten but like Davis is a stud in waiting but Deadman-Walking, I mean Garrett has found a way to get Bennett touches while still making Witten the featured TE.

I just don't want us to keep holding this kid back or get rid of him when he could be the next Witten, Winslow Sr., Sharpe or Gonzalez.

As far as our two rookie WR's. Thomas seems to be ahead of Kelly but like one poster said, we got to get him the ball to see what he can and can't do. It anything, we should stick him back there on punts and give ARE a break. Maybe the kid can give us more than what ARE is giving us on punt returns. They will not be considered "busts" to me until several games into next season. If they still don't know what they are doing or have gotten themselves into better positions to play by then, then they are busts in my mind...

roybus14 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:We're getting more out of him than we are out of Kelly. I actually like what I've seen out of him so far. I still think that Fred Davis is going to be the best out of the three of them.

Would have still liked to see us pick a pass rusher though.

It's going ot be tough pickins for Davis with ey in front of him. I honestly believe for our and his best interest, we should get him on the field to prove himself, and then trade him out of the conference. I haven't seen it yet, and I don't see Zorn using two TE sets in the future as much as I like to utilize the talent we think Davis has.

Why trade him??? The only thing Davis needs right now is some experience and to be the TE that can block. ey is not the greatest blocker but if you can get away with having two TE's that can catch and one that is good at blocking why not keep them and find ways to use both of them. ey ain't Superman and needs a blow every now and then. So Davis comes in and we don't lose much. They got the same thing going on in Cowgirl country. Bennett is behind Witten but like Davis is a stud in waiting but Deadman-Walking, I mean Garrett has found a way to get Bennett touches while still making Witten the featured TE.

I just don't want us to keep holding this kid back or get rid of him when he could be the next Witten, Winslow Sr., Sharpe or Gonzalez.

As far as our two rookie WR's. Thomas seems to be ahead of Kelly but like one poster said, we got to get him the ball to see what he can and can't do. It anything, we should stick him back there on punts and give ARE a break. Maybe the kid can give us more than what ARE is giving us on punt returns. They will not be considered "busts" to me until several games into next season. If they still don't know what they are doing or have gotten themselves into better positions to play by then, then they are busts in my mind...

I seriously don't see Davis moving ahead of ey in the depth chart, so the only way we're 'holding him back' is if we keep him behind ey. With the limited amount of touches he gets behind ey, he'll never get a chance to prove it.

He will be able to help when we go to 2 tight end sets or if we flex ey out and put Davis at the end of the line.

See Indy's plays with Dallas Clark.

frankcal20 wrote:He will be able to help when we go to 2 tight end sets or if we flex ey out and put Davis at the end of the line.

See Indy's plays with Dallas Clark.

Those are all "ifs" which I support, but I haven't seen it...