The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I konw we have established a solid run game and I love it. But it just seems like Zorn waits until he has his back up against the wall to "turn on the offense".

I don't think JZ is as comfortable with the passing game as we thought he was. I can't see any other reason for it, really. He's an intelligent, innovative guy. After some of the calls he'd made this year, I just don't think he's that conservative.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't think JZ is as comfortable with the passing game as we thought he was. I can't see any other reason for it, really. He's an intelligent, innovative guy. After some of the calls he'd made this year, I just don't think he's that conservative.

He wanted to show a different look than what he's done the last half dozon games, gaining a rep for all ways having his foot on the thottle, he simply throttled back for a week (or so). If nothing else he put a bunch of really good football player who took a bunch of really good football player for granted last week and put them in the trenches for almost 60 mins.

1niksder wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't think JZ is as comfortable with the passing game as we thought he was. I can't see any other reason for it, really. He's an intelligent, innovative guy. After some of the calls he'd made this year, I just don't think he's that conservative.

He wanted to show a different look than what he's done the last half dozon games, gaining a rep for all ways having his foot on the thottle, he simply throttled back for a week (or so). If nothing else he put a bunch of really good football player who took a bunch of really good football player for granted last week and put them in the trenches for almost 60 mins.

I'm sorry, I don't see it that way. The passing game didnt' get a rhythm until the 2nd 1/2. When I watch a game, I usually get a comfortable feeling when the offense (both ground and air) get a groove, and I didn't get that feeling vs the Browns. Yes, CP did an amazing job, and yes, there were some outstanding plays in the air, but I just didn't feel the groove, or comfort, that I thought should be present for a successful offensive showing. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I see soo much better things in store for our offense with the talent we have. I'm just eager to see it in fruition.

Bear in mind that the Redskins spent most of the first half deep in their own end. That limits how many and what type of passing plays you can call. I think Zorn was hoping that the run game could get them out of that hole, and then open up the pass. It never happened.

In the second half, we started winning the field position game, and he was free to open up the passing game a bit more. The result was points.

I think that JZ is doing what his doing to keep the league off-balance. I mean come on, JC is very comfortable back there, CP is on an MVP pace and we have all of those receiving weapons... JZ is keeping the league off-balance by calling these last few games close to the vest. We all have seen what this offense is capable of against Dallas and Philly. I seriously doubt that the offense has regressed.

Stay tuned folks.... If we can get through this first half of the season unscathed, I expect that JZ will open it up again coming down the stretch to build momentum for the playoffs......

I can see that, but I'm not totally sold that's how it is. WIth ey, Moss, and CP out of the backfield, I'm confident that we have enough solid tools to progress. We need a consistant #2 and #3 and we don't have those atm. ARE makes some good plays, but he's quite inconsistant. Thrash hasn't done well, either, this year. I don't see him being used in line with this strengths. Thrash should never be streaking down the sidelines; he's not going to outrun anyone. He's a good route runner and pretty good hands, and that's what he should be used for IMO.

It just hurts to see all that talent now being utilized.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I can see that, but I'm not totally sold that's how it is. WIth ey, Moss, and CP out of the backfield, I'm confident that we have enough solid tools to progress. We need a consistant #2 and #3 and we don't have those atm. ARE makes some good plays, but he's quite inconsistant. Thrash hasn't done well, either, this year. I don't see him being used in line with this strengths. Thrash should never be streaking down the sidelines; he's not going to outrun anyone. He's a good route runner and pretty good hands, and that's what he should be used for IMO.

It just hurts to see all that talent now being utilized.

Maybe we're seeing the talent of their offensive line being utilized instead. Its not as flashy as Moss etal catching passes down field, but its one of their strong suits too. Beat 'em up in the trenches and throw CP at 'em. I'm not sure its Zorn trying to mess with the leagues heads, I really don't think coaches have that luxury and are really just trying to win on that particular day, but it does show a nice balance that will end up keeping opposing defenses game plans honest.

Also, I think that Campbell's "tweak" may have been more of a factor than they have let on.

I think part of the issue is the lack of quality WR's... Right now, we have exactly 1 consistent/top notch WR in Moss.

ARE - Had a great game last week but has been spotty this year. Has had a case of the dropsies this year. Doesn't take advantage of 1-1 coverage enough IMO.

Thrash - Slow but great hands. Precise route runner but slow. LOL I think of when he got Asante on a double move that should have left him torched but James is so slow that Asante was able to catch up to him and make a play on the ball.

Thomas - Should be starting over Thrash but is mentally deficient. I think that he's related to that fool in Philly cus they're both show boating and have no reason to be.

I feel that he's been looked over by Jason at times because Jason has yet to trust him and I can't fault him for that. He needs to be in the game more often.

Kelly - He has injury bed bugs, someone get this kid a glass of milk. He should be the #2 WR right now, forcing ARE into the slot. If he ever gets on the field, it should be a great thing for this offense. Height & size will go a long way in the endzone.

Desired WR line up:

1. Moss
2. Kelly
3. ARE/Thomas
4. Thomas/Are
5. Thrash/Davis
6. Davis/Thrash

Let's just be happy that we're making due with the lineup we have. Even with my assesment/complaints about who is starting, defenses are respecting them which is 200x better than in years past.

I seriously doubt that we'll see my projected lineup this season. The most we'll see is Thomas and Davis receive an increased role. Kelly will get more time but won't start... I have some bad feelings about his injuries but if he stays healthy, maybe he'll Thomas for time. Zorn seems to prefer Malcom and I think it's because of his demeanor. He seems more grounded than Thomas.

Aside from the WR's...

- Sundays conserative passing was due to Jason's groin. I don't think wanted to push him too hard and lose him for the game or future games. Good coach call.

- Conservative play calling vs the Rams may have been due to the blocking miscommunications.

- Lets remember that a lot of the deep passes have come from plays where Jason is breaking sacks and getting off a deep pass.

- A lot of the deeper passes are coming off of playaction.

- I can't really remember Jason taking a drop and just heaving it down field. Jason still might be having trouble with that aspect of the offense.

- Jason's issues with the deep ball may be the reason why Moss was seeing more cross routes last week or maybe that was simply due to Jason's groin.

- Another reason for the lack of deep passes is that We only have 1 active speedster on offense...and his name is Moss. ARE is not fast, he's quick. Thrash is slower than molasses. Thomas is our second speedster but isn't getting the playing time. Kelly isn't super fast but would win a jump ball downfield.

* I didn't mention cooley cus he's a TE. I'm speaking only about WR's.

Yeah, it has been frustrating to me that we lack the shots deep. I mean, if it's not there, then I'd rather he not throw it. I would just like to see more downfield offense sometimes. What's the deal with Devin Thomas? This guy has been virtually non-existent. Is he getting open and J-Cam is just not finding him? or looking his way?

VetSkinsFan wrote:I can see that, but I'm not totally sold that's how it is.

Perfect... that's exactly what JZ is going for and accomplishing. That fact that you aren't "sold" is just the thought he wants every other team have. JZ doesn't want anyone to be sold, otherwise they will be able to key in on what he intends to do.

It's about keeping defenses honest and guessing. Portis said earlier last week that defenses are now having to adjust to our offense, rather than our offense having to adjust to their defense, like in recent years past. We've also heard Portis say that Zorn will put in new plays the day of the game that have been practiced only a few times. Why show the entire arsenal when it's not necessary?

I believe JZ is absolutely taking the right approach. We've already seen the passing game work and seen plenty of successful misdirection offensive plays earlier in the season, especially in the Saints and Cards games. So we know it's there. If you use the same game plans and run the same offense every week, defenses will just tee off on you. That's not smart football.

Zorn knows defenses don't have a book on him yet and he's using that to his advantage. Additionally, we have a good o-line and a strong running attack. I believe Portis' strong day (175 yds) was, in part, contributed to the fact that the Browns were waiting, in vain, for the passing game to open up. Zorn simply stayed with the successful ground attack and it worked. It was obviously their plan.

The passing game still has room for improvement and JZ has said it's not as far along as the running game. So again, why rush it when you have a strong ground attack? Why show the same look every week? So a few fans can be dazzled by airing it out?

He's still implementing a new system, something completely different than what's been here for years, and the rookies and veterans alike need time to adjust. Leaning on your current strengths and keeping defenses guessing during that curve is just smart coaching.

And by the way, a thought I've had over the past few weeks. Where are those fools that said our receivers (Moss, ARE, ey) and skill players don't have the skillset to play in a West Coast Offense?

Why pass the ball when Portis is racking up 150+ rushing yards?

The offensive line clearly loves what they're doing.

riggofan wrote:Why pass the ball when Portis is racking up 150+ rushing yards?

The offensive line clearly loves what they're doing.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Portis is getting those yards because we pass successfully and often.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:Why pass the ball when Portis is racking up 150+ rushing yards?

The offensive line clearly loves what they're doing.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Portis is getting those yards because we pass successfully and often.

yeah 1 dimensional teams never ever work.. gotta have a balance

This is the East coast offense. Solid ground and pound attack with a dash of short passing. I don't see anything wrong with it, specially with JC still getting comfy in this offense. I'm tired of it being called a west coast offense when clearly it is a run first mentality. This is perfect for JC right now, take shots as you see fit, but run, run, run first.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:Why pass the ball when Portis is racking up 150+ rushing yards?

The offensive line clearly loves what they're doing.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Portis is getting those yards because we pass successfully and often.

Yeah I get that. I didn't mean to imply we need to pass any less than we're doing now. I think Zorn's play calling has been great.

The guy who started this thread seems to be complaining that Zorn hasn't opened up the offense more or something.

Just not sure why would you do anything different when your RB is racking up 150+ yards a game?

riggofan wrote:Why pass the ball when Portis is racking up 150+ rushing yards?

The offensive line clearly loves what they're doing.

Because we're only winning nail biters. We need to put teams away. And BTW Portis may be closer to 200 on fewer carries if we do that.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't think JZ is as comfortable with the passing game as we thought he was. I can't see any other reason for it, really. He's an intelligent, innovative guy. After some of the calls he'd made this year, I just don't think he's that conservative.

I agree. When St Louis was down to 3 corners and hello, we run the spread, we couldn't get more then 2 receivers on the field at the same time? How does that speak to comfort with our passing game? I am not saying he doesn't trust JC, if he didn't he wouldn't be in the game. But I don't think he's ready to open it up either. It seems like he's bringing him along.

I don't believe that every game we've had this year has been decided by 1 TD or less since the Giants game (which we lost by 9) is being true to our talents level. Am I to believe that anyone else is believing any different? Portis is killin 'em on the ground, but we're not threatening anyone in the air and the current passing game is NOT sufficient IMO. We do NOT have any room to err. There was really no way we should have lost the Rams game. Due to turnovers and the moderate offensive output in the air, we could not overcome our turnovers.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:44 am Post subject:

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VetSkinsFan wrote:
I can see that, but I'm not totally sold that's how it is.


Perfect... that's exactly what JZ is going for and accomplishing. That fact that you aren't "sold" is just the thought he wants every other team have. JZ doesn't want anyone to be sold, otherwise they will be able to key in on what he intends to do.

It's about keeping defenses honest and guessing. Portis said earlier last week that defenses are now having to adjust to our offense, rather than our offense having to adjust to their defense, like in recent years past. We've also heard Portis say that Zorn will put in new plays the day of the game that have been practiced only a few times. Why show the entire arsenal when it's not necessary?

On what source do you have this information from?

whats the difference between a 5 yard run and a 5 yard pass? its still 5 yards.

The field position battle in the first half of the browns game was what lead to the play calling coupled with JC's groin tweak. You have to figure, coming off a loss like the Rams game, seeing the result of the Giants and Browns on Monday, Zorn wasnt going to take a chance, I for one say it was smart play-calling for a coach with 7 games under his belt. Teams have decided to take away Moss, the routes that ey and ARE run are usually in mid-field traffic. Its a chess match, if youre not behind,dont give them anything to take, especially at home.

Relax guys, it aint broke. We do need to get more precise and rythmic, that will come in time, I for one am enjoying the hell out of this line play and running game!

jmooney wrote:whats the difference between a 5 yard run and a 5 yard pass?

If you're primarily running, the difference is the 5 yard pass spreads the D more. Though you still have to go down field too to really spread it. they may have to spread more laterally for a short passing game, but they can still keep the D from playing too deep.

jmooney wrote:whats the difference between a 5 yard run and a 5 yard pass? its still 5 yards.

The difference is the wear it inflicts on the defensive line.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't think JZ is as comfortable with the passing game as we thought he was. I can't see any other reason for it, really. He's an intelligent, innovative guy. After some of the calls he'd made this year, I just don't think he's that conservative.

I agree

John Manfreda wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't think JZ is as comfortable with the passing game as we thought he was. I can't see any other reason for it, really. He's an intelligent, innovative guy. After some of the calls he'd made this year, I just don't think he's that conservative.

I agree

Me too, though he's only been coaching 7 games. I don't think it means anything other then work in progess. For him and the team. It's a lot more difficult being the guy then critiquing the guy.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:44 am Post subject:

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VetSkinsFan wrote:
I can see that, but I'm not totally sold that's how it is.


Perfect... that's exactly what JZ is going for and accomplishing. That fact that you aren't "sold" is just the thought he wants every other team have. JZ doesn't want anyone to be sold, otherwise they will be able to key in on what he intends to do.

It's about keeping defenses honest and guessing. Portis said earlier last week that defenses are now having to adjust to our offense, rather than our offense having to adjust to their defense, like in recent years past. We've also heard Portis say that Zorn will put in new plays the day of the game that have been practiced only a few times. Why show the entire arsenal when it's not necessary?

On what source do you have this information from?

Portis himself, in recent post game interviews. The guys calling the game Sunday also spoke specifically about Portis' comments regarding defenses now having to adjust to our offense.

And guys, it's not like our passing game is inept. I know they didn't air it out the past two weeks, but some of our WR's have had big games so far this season. We all know it ain't there yet, but it's coming. We knew there was a learning curve when implementing this system and I don't see the logic of rushing it when the cost of errors is huge in this league. But it will come, you can bet on that.