The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

In the 2005 NFL Draft, if you could've traded up to get a QB, would you have traded up to get Jason Campbell or Aaron Rodgers. Realizing that Rodgers would have had to learn the new offensive schemes that Jason Campbell has had to, who would you guys honestly have chosen. I know that Aaron has only played in like 3-4 games and is only starting his 1st game right now, but he's looking good. He's 6'2'' and has a quick release and stride. He seems to be a good fit for the WCO, which the Packers sort-of run. I know that some administrator will move this to Fantasyland, but I think it's a cool topic to talk about.

This post is not to demean or belittle J-Camp, I am still a fan of him and I am optimistic that he can have a productive year. I think with more reps in a game will help him hit a stride and I also think that Zorn could start using more shot-gun formations and call more passing plays to get him comfortable.

front office. they have no idea which direction they are headed or were going to begin with. they just call it 'foward' and everyone(most) seem to buy it.

Aaron Rogers is playing great today, but he's been sitting on the sidelines and practicing the same offense for 3 years.

If Jason Campbell had been that long in the same offense, he'd be a star.

Truthfully I think Jason Campbell is a very skilled quarterback with the mental toughness and strength of character to do well in this league... but I don't know if we'll every have a coach or a system that can make use of a talented QB.

I was just looking at the NFL Stats for week 1 for QBs:

Jason Campbell statistically played better than the following QBs:

JT O'Sullivan
Brodie Croyle
David Garrard
Marc Bulger
Jeff Garcia
Eli Manning
Matt Hasslebeck
Joe Flaco
Carson Palmer
Vince Young


Campbell was ranked 15th with a 81.2 rating. If he can limit his turnovers and maintain steady growth he'll be fine. Honestly, if Portis can hold up and be a work-horse, I have no problem if Campbell goes for 150-200 yard and 1 TD a game. If ce could have a 2007 type David Garrard season with like 17-20 Tds and 5-8 Ints, he'll be good. I saw a lot of flashes in the Giants game. The one throw to Thrash was on the money and Thrash couldn't get it and the other one was in traffic to Santana and Santana dropped it. He very nearly could've had 3 Tds, just as Eli Manning should've had 3-5 Ints in the game.

spudstr04 wrote:I was just looking at the NFL Stats for week 1 for QBs:

Jason Campbell statistically played better than the following QBs:

JT O'Sullivan
Brodie Croyle
David Garrard
Marc Bulger
Jeff Garcia
Eli Manning
Matt Hasslebeck
Joe Flaco
Carson Palmer
Vince Young


Campbell was ranked 15th with a 81.2 rating. If he can limit his turnovers and maintain steady growth he'll be fine. Honestly, if Portis can hold up and be a work-horse, I have no problem if Campbell goes for 150-200 yard and 1 TD a game. If ce could have a 2007 type David Garrard season with like 17-20 Tds and 5-8 Ints, he'll be good. I saw a lot of flashes in the Giants game. The one throw to Thrash was on the money and Thrash couldn't get it and the other one was in traffic to Santana and Santana dropped it. He very nearly could've had 3 Tds, just as Eli Manning should've had 3-5 Ints in the game.

Also, he's better than Tavaris Jackson at the moment, but he's looking better in the 2nd half. He was better than Matt Schaub and Derek Anderson as well.

By all means someone correct me if I a wrong or enlighten me...

I love Campbell, but it seems he is playing with so much fear of making a mistake that its taking away from his fundamentals (locking on to wr, or running when all else fails), and his natural athleticism as a QB.
Could this be a product of learning a new system???

I believe that the skins intention was to trade up for Rodgers, but the packers drafted him and we took JC. Either way, it is too hard to tell at this point. Rodgers has only played in one game thus far.

markshark84 wrote:I believe that the skins intention was to trade up for Rodgers, but the packers drafted him and we took JC. Either way, it is too hard to tell at this point. Rodgers has only played in one game thus far.

I'm not sure about that. It was eventually revealed that Gibbs spent quite a bit of time at Auburn before that draft, and I specifically remember Gibbs talking about the time invested in scouting Campbell, as much as Rogers and more.

Jason Campbell may have performed well statistically, but remember at the end of the game the Giants were giving Campbell all the 8 yard passes he wanted, they were playing to protect the lead and Campbell got a lot of gimmie passes at the end because the Giants were looking to prevent the deep ball.

He looked good on a stat sheet, but those watching the game know he played pretty poorly.

SkinsFreak wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I believe that the skins intention was to trade up for Rodgers, but the packers drafted him and we took JC. Either way, it is too hard to tell at this point. Rodgers has only played in one game thus far.

I'm not sure about that. It was eventually revealed that Gibbs spent quite a bit of time at Auburn before that draft, and I specifically remember Gibbs talking about the time invested in scouting Campbell, as much as Rogers and more.

I think the thing to remember in all of this, is that GIBBS scouted, drafted, and groomed him for his offense. Zorn might love the kid and think he's great, but I honestly think that Colt Brennan will be Zorn's guy of the future unless Campbell starts to grasp the WCO.

MAN, it sounds like I flip-flop a lot. I really want Campbell to work out and I really like him. He's professional, he's a hard-worker, and he's an athletic QB. What's not to like? Well, a slow release and a slow decision making mind-set so far.

Skinna Mob wrote:By all means someone correct me if I a wrong or enlighten me...

I love Campbell, but it seems he is playing with so much fear of making a mistake that its taking away from his fundamentals (locking on to wr, or running when all else fails), and his natural athleticism as a QB.
Could this be a product of learning a new system???

joe gibbs ring a bell?

no mistakes football?

campell was drafted to learn this and this alone. he has had this pounded into his skull since he was drafted. gibbs demeanor didn't help JC, it hurt, imo. campell thinks too much at this point. way too much. and way, way too much for the WCO. he doesn't PLAY the game, he tries to THINK it.

It was my understanding that Joe Gibbs personally picked Campbell. I never saw anything that indicated the Redskins were after or even considered Rodgers. Actually, no one even considered that he would be available when Green Bay drafted.

I think Zorn will give Campbell his chance. If he does not pick things up and show marked improvment by the end of this year, I think Brennen will be our quarterback next year. Coaches tend to like the guys they draft rather than their predecessors drafts.

For once I agree with the guys concerning being in one system. That is definitely a disadvantage for Campbell and an advantage to Rodgers.

If, as several writers and bloggers are implying, Jason Campbell is not a great fit for the WCO, then why go with a WCO coordinator and then promote him to head coach?

I love Jason Campbell, but I have to agree with everyone of the aforementioned critics, I just don't see him fitting into a quick passing offense.

With this being said, there is no plan from our front office. Anyone who tries to argue the opposite is delusional at best and should take up watching soccer at worst.

How do you not address the biggest team need (DE) in the draft? How do you consistently give up high draft picks for guys who don't perform.

Why does every player we don't resign or release (except for Archuleta) have career years elsewhere? I'm talking about B. Lloyd, D. Patten, K. Watson, S. Rosenfelds, J. Thrash w/ the Eagles and C. Clemons. I know none of these guys are game changers, but integral continuity pieces that could have helped our team.

I know it's too early to guess on B. Lloyd, but he already has matched his 07 reception total. Even R. Royal looks like he's going to start turning it on this year.

I also know you can't keep them all, but when was the last time you said to yourself: "Man our scouting department really found a diamond in the rough that no one else wanted".

Conversely, everyone we get seems to underperform...Trotter, ARE, Lloyd, Patten all come to mind to name a few.

So in mind, who really didn't perform, B. Lloyd, D. Patten and Trotter or our coaching staff and general management for bringing pieces in that didn't fit or weren't put in position to succeed?

Well W M - i sort of agree with you - the lack of productivity that we get out of some players that do well elsewhere ( didn`t Stoutmire have a big year for the Saints 2 seasons ago? ) is worrying and points to being a poor fit or badly coached and used.
However, I do feel that we have been getting better productivity out of our later draft picks than before. I`m happy with Golston, Montgomery, Doughty - I`m hopeful for both of the safeties we just drafted and Brooks the punter - and i`m really hopeful that Brennan is the rough diamond you talk about, particularly in this system.

You're really painting with broad brushstrokes here.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:Why does every player we don't resign or release (except for Archuleta) have career years elsewhere? I'm talking about B. Lloyd, D. Patten, K. Watson, S. Rosenfelds, J. Thrash w/ the Eagles and C. Clemons. I know none of these guys are game changers, but integral continuity pieces that could have helped our team.

I know it's too early to guess on B. Lloyd, but he already has matched his 07 reception total. Even R. Royal looks like he's going to start turning it on this year.

Oh, come on. There are exigent circumstances for every one of those players.

Kenny Watson had a nice year for the Bengals last year, rushing for about 700 yards. However, it's such a nice year that he was immediately installed as the 3rd runningback this year...and once Rudi Johnson was cut, got moved all the way up to 2nd string. We could have kept him, instead of Ladell Betts, I suppose, because his only role is as a backup runningback. Would you have preferred Watson or Betts? Me, I'd pick Betts.

Robert Royal had 25 catches for 3 TDs last year. Would you really prefer the Redskins keep him over ey? Or that they pay him what the Bills paid him to be a backup over Yoder? Me, I'd pick ey with Yoder as a backup, since it's a lot cheaper. I don't really see a lot of difference between Yoder and Royal.

James Thrash had a career year (if you call 800 yards) with the Eagles, only because the Eagles had no one else to throw the ball to. When he was with them, they had about the worst set of WRs in the NFL. They kept trying to replace him.

Sage Rosenfels had a fine year last year (15 TDs, 12 INTs) as Houston's backup. However, he's a career backup, and he's sitting on the bench behind Schaub again.

Brandon Lloyd makes me laugh. He may catch a reasonable amount of balls with Chicago this year, but only because their WR corps is even worse than the one we had last year.

I would have liked to see them keep Chris Clemons, but when the Skins cut him in 2006...it's not like the Skins cut the guy and people came running to sign him...he sat the entire year out of football. He had a nice year last year with the Raiders, though.

Sure, Patten did well last year (700 yards), but I'm not sure why you think he's so important to continuity. The Skins cut him when he was turning 33, after all.

I also know you can't keep them all, but when was the last time you said to yourself: "Man our scouting department really found a diamond in the rough that no one else wanted".

Heyer is turning out pretty well; Gholston, Montgomery are both pretty decent and were low round draft picks. I like what I've seen out of Moore and Horton so far.

Conversely, everyone we get seems to underperform...Trotter, ARE, Lloyd, Patten all come to mind to name a few.

Everyone?

I can think of a lot of folks who don't underperform. Griffin, Washington, Springs, Randy Thomas, Pete Kendall, London Fletcher, all immediately come to mind.

Again, everyone?

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:If, as several writers and bloggers are implying, Jason Campbell is not a great fit for the WCO, then why go with a WCO coordinator and then promote him to head coach?

I love Jason Campbell, but I have to agree with everyone of the aforementioned critics, I just don't see him fitting into a quick passing offense.

With this being said, there is no plan from our front office. Anyone who tries to argue the opposite is delusional at best and should take up watching soccer at worst.

How do you not address the biggest team need (DE) in the draft? How do you consistently give up high draft picks for guys who don't perform.

Why does every player we don't resign or release (except for Archuleta) have career years elsewhere? I'm talking about B. Lloyd, D. Patten, K. Watson, S. Rosenfelds, J. Thrash w/ the Eagles and C. Clemons. I know none of these guys are game changers, but integral continuity pieces that could have helped our team.

I know it's too early to guess on B. Lloyd, but he already has matched his 07 reception total. Even R. Royal looks like he's going to start turning it on this year.

I also know you can't keep them all, but when was the last time you said to yourself: "Man our scouting department really found a diamond in the rough that no one else wanted".

Conversely, everyone we get seems to underperform...Trotter, ARE, Lloyd, Patten all come to mind to name a few.

So in mind, who really didn't perform, B. Lloyd, D. Patten and Trotter or our coaching staff and general management for bringing pieces in that didn't fit or weren't put in position to succeed?

I think the fact that our GM's prior work experience includes running a marketing department and owning an amusement park and restaurant chain may have something to do with why our picks haven't been the greatest.

Everyone knows that championships are won through the draft. Hopefully Snyder has learned that. But the fact is our draft picks have not been spectacular since Snyder took ownership of the team. Also, it is my understanding that a number of scouts have left or been fired for their disagreements with Snyder over picks. I think that in and of itself, speaks volumes as our draft history hasn't been spectacular. We need a GM. Until that time comes, we will be right were we are now. You can't get very far without a GM. Just ask every good team in the NFL that question and I am sure you will get similar answers.

We have a GM. His name is Vinny Cerrato.

JSPB22 wrote:We have a GM. His name is Vinny Cerrato.

He's as much the GM as I am.

hailskins666 wrote:joe gibbs ring a bell?

no mistakes football?

campell was drafted to learn this and this alone. he has had this pounded into his skull since he was drafted. gibbs demeanor didn't help JC, it hurt, imo. campell thinks too much at this point. way too much. and way, way too much for the WCO. he doesn't PLAY the game, he tries to THINK it.

I agree with this.

He needs to come out there slinging and slanging. I'd almost rather him lose the game via interceptions at this point. Do something to get a spark, get the ball rolling.

I'd much rather him throw a pick than to hold the ball and get blindsided and fumble. Either way they're getting the ball back.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Aaron Rogers is playing great today, but he's been sitting on the sidelines and practicing the same offense for 3 years.

If Jason Campbell had been that long in the same offense, he'd be a star.
Truthfully I think Jason Campbell is a very skilled quarterback with the mental toughness and strength of character to do well in this league... but I don't know if we'll every have a coach or a system that can make use of a talented QB.

Thank you.....

Remember Patrick Ramsey. The kid with a strong arm that was physically beaten into being a career backup.

Now it appears that JC might be mentally beaten into a career as a backup because of "no mistakes" being pounded into his head by Gibbs and the revolving door of offenses and coaches by management..

roybus14 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Aaron Rogers is playing great today, but he's been sitting on the sidelines and practicing the same offense for 3 years.

If Jason Campbell had been that long in the same offense, he'd be a star.
Truthfully I think Jason Campbell is a very skilled quarterback with the mental toughness and strength of character to do well in this league... but I don't know if we'll every have a coach or a system that can make use of a talented QB.

Thank you.....

There is no way to prove or disprove this.... but it sure does sound like the statement is educated!!

There is no doubt that Rodgers had some serious advantages over Jason Campbell.

He not only spent 3 years immersed in the same system, but also got to learn that system from a (future first-ballot hall-of-fame) veteran QB.

I'm not terribly worried about Campbell, he just need to be given the time to hone his skills to this new offense. If what I'm hearing is true, Hasselbeck was a little wild his first year with Zorn also.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Aaron Rogers is playing great today, but he's been sitting on the sidelines and practicing the same offense for 3 years.

If Jason Campbell had been that long in the same offense, he'd be a star.

Truthfully I think Jason Campbell is a very skilled quarterback with the mental toughness and strength of character to do well in this league... but I don't know if we'll every have a coach or a system that can make use of a talented QB.

Agreed and well put. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.

Skinna Mob wrote:By all means someone correct me if I a wrong or enlighten me...

I love Campbell, but it seems he is playing with so much fear of making a mistake that its taking away from his fundamentals (locking on to wr, or running when all else fails), and his natural athleticism as a QB.
Could this be a product of learning a new system???

Skinna, I think you hit the nail on the head, you don't want your QB to second guess himself on almost every play. You need him to PLAY FOOTBALL. I think he's being asked to do things he's not comfortable with and that makes him ineffective. At what point does Zorn either

A. Utilize Campbells strengths to get him more at ease or

B. Try someone else

I'm not saying this has to done right away, but if they perform poorly come Sunday, wouldn't you have to step back and re-assess????