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Has JC been properly developed???
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:38 am
by roybus14
I read an interesting article in the NY Times' Sunday sports section yesterday. In it, it talked about the development process or lack there of rookie NFL QB's. A snippet from the article stated that Jim Zorn and the Seahawks took time to develop Seneca Wallace instead of casting him aside by sending him to a "learning lab" so they could see where he was having trouble grasping the offense. The article also talked about how many rookie QB's are not taught how to be an NFL QB once they reach that level.
I wonder will JC and Brennan be afforded the same luck of JZ sticking with them? See link to article below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/sport ... =permalink
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:17 am
by welch
Yes, it seems that Campbell has been properly trained.
He spent his first season studying, just as Mark Rypien did. Campbell started games only about mid-way in his second season, and, recall, at the time that Gibbs insisted the Redskins get back to smash-mouth "Redskins football". The OL overpowered defenses, and Betts gained a lot of yards.
All that took pressure off Campbell, but gave him game experience.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:24 am
by Deadskins
welch wrote:Yes, it seems that Campbell has been properly trained.
He spent his first season studying, just as Mark Rypien did. Campbell started games only about mid-way in his second season, and, recall, at the time that Gibbs insisted the Redskins get back to smash-mouth "Redskins football". The OL overpowered defenses, and Betts gained a lot of yards.
All that took pressure off Campbell, but gave him game experience.
Then he got yanked in the first quarter of the first game the next season. Not that I'm complaining. MB gave us a playoff season, and a Cowpie highlight reel for the ages.
Re: Has JC been properly developed???
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:14 pm
by alceazy
roybus14 wrote:I read an interesting article in the NY Times' Sunday sports section yesterday. In it, it talked about the development process or lack there of rookie NFL QB's. A snippet from the article stated that Jim Zorn and the Seahawks took time to develop Seneca Wallace instead of casting him aside by sending him to a "learning lab" so they could see where he was having trouble grasping the offense. The article also talked about how many rookie QB's are not taught how to be an NFL QB once they reach that level.
I wonder will JC and Brennan be afforded the same luck of JZ sticking with them? See link to article below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/sport ... =permalink
Re: Has JC been properly developed???
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:24 pm
by alceazy
JC HAS DONE MORE GOOD THEN BAD 4 THIS TEAM THERE MIGHT BE A COUPLE OF QB'S THAT HAVE WUN SB'S IN THERE FIRST COUPLE YEARS STARTING IN THIS LEAGUE AND 4 THE ONES THAT HAVE LOOK AT THERE OWNERSHIP FRANCHISES WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS NOT JUST TEAMS WHEN WE GET THE ORGANAZATION RAN RIGHT THATS WHEN WE CAN TALK SUPERTBOWLS
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:06 pm
by Countertrey
1: Locate Caps Lock key
2: Press once
3: Locate screwdriver
4: Remove Caps Lock key
Problem solved.
Regarding the thread, I think that Zorn's work with Hasselback speaks for itself. He certainly has more raw physical talent to work with in Campbell... If anyone can turn Jason into a HOF qb, it is him.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:10 pm
by GSPODS
Has JC been properly developed? No.
Will he be properly developed? Yes.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:50 pm
by El Mexican
GSPODS wrote:Has JC been properly developed? No.
Will he be properly developed? Yes.
Where?
With all the pressure some fans are putting on him right now, I highly doubt he will end his "development cycle" in DC.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:03 pm
by HEROHAMO
How can we honestly answer this question?
I believe this is his first year in the west coast offense. Actually the first couple months of experience.
I think he is as ready as he will ever be as an NFL QB. He has had a full season and a half now as a starter. He has all the physical tools and is poised as a young man. I don't see him get startled much. So thats a positive. JC has looked good in the pre season.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:55 pm
by Skinna Mob
2 cents real quick... JC needs to play with less fear of making mistakes.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:56 pm
by VetSkinsFan
El Mexican wrote:GSPODS wrote:Has JC been properly developed? No.
Will he be properly developed? Yes.
Where?
With all the pressure some fans are putting on him right now, I highly doubt he will end his "development cycle" in DC.
How exactly are "the fans" putting pressure on him?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:13 pm
by CanesSkins26
He spent his first season studying, just as Mark Rypien did.
The problem is that spending a season studying doesn't do a qb all that much good if the team keeps changing offenses.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:22 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
CanesSkins26 wrote:He spent his first season studying, just as Mark Rypien did.
The problem is that spending a season studying doesn't do a qb all that much good if the team keeps changing offenses.
Amen. I'm sure that JC is fine in regards to handling pressure, keeping his cool and other things that don't change regardless of scheme or plays.
But when it comes to getting the ball out quickly, knowing where to go with the ball when his primary target is covered, etc. all of that is dependent on his knowledge and comfort of the scheme. That comfort comes with time and experience within the scheme. Comfort takes more than 5 preseason games and often takes 1-2 years.
Jason has not been given that. Hopefully he will be given 1-2 years and by then we should know the answer. In 1-2 years Colt will be more than ready if Jason isn't performing well and hopefully the front office won't be ready to fire Zorn by then.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:26 pm
by Gnome
I'm not sure how much a coach can develop a QB at the pro level. A guy like JC has played a ton of football prior to mtg Zorn. He is who he is at this stage. Maybe coach Zorn can bring out some of JC's strengths and correct some faults. But I think the bigger question is can Zorn develop a system that will work for Jason?
Think about it - Manning, McNabb, Brady, and so on mainly needed to grow accustomed to the speed of the game and the complexity of the offensive and defensive schemes to become legit starters. For them it was more a process of acclimation than development.
Guys like Boller, Redman, Ramsey, Harrington, Smith, and so on tend to be servicable once they adjust to the speed and schemes but never develop into a Manning, Mcnabb, or a Brady.
It's probably safe to assume JC has adjusted to the speed and schemes. And at this stage Zorn isn't going to make him faster, his arm stronger, his spiral tighter, his football IQ higher, or his command of the huddle more natural. All of that can be done with high school kids and college QB's when they're freshmen or sophomores - but as a fourth year pro JC has had the benifit of a lifetime of football development, meaning he's pretty well developd and is who he is.
I think the bigger question is can Zorn figure out who Jason is and create a system that shades to JC's strengths? Can he tweak his schemes to take advantage of JC? Gibbs was a master of doing that his first time around - the offense constantly evolved to fit his team and QB. Gibbs never really developed a QB he just got the most out of what they brought to the huddle. That's why he liked a veteran QB like Joey T, Williams, Ryp, and Mark B - they were acclimated and he could build the systeam around their strength.
Even Schroeder got a change in play calling - more deep balls and fewer underneath routes.
Can Zorn do the same thing with JC, Collins, and Colt? All three of whom will probably play this year. Can he adjust the scheme to work for their skills? Can Zorn develop? Big question.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:25 pm
by BigRedskinDaddy
Gnome, Zorn said in his TC pressers that he was working on JC staying lower as he dropped back, which he felt would improve his footwork. In the past he had a tendency to make his throws without moving his feet properly, resulting in a lot of balls that weren't delivered to his targets in stride, and more than a few that spiraled tail-down. Those kind of throws are very hard to catch and result in few if any YAC, which is a staple of the WCO.
That's just one example of his teachings. I'm sure there are others. His work w/Hasselbeck in Seattle is proof positive of his ability to mold a QB, and I for one am confident we will see him do the same with JC.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:35 pm
by El Mexican
I consider this forum a reflection of this team´s fans.
A lot of them have been pretty vocal about a change at QB, even if we are still in the preseason.
I wonder how much time will these fans give JC once the season starts?
How long will Zorn be able to back JC if he underperforms? He´s not his QB, he was picked by Gibbs, as you know.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:40 pm
by VetSkinsFan
El Mexican wrote:I consider this forum a reflection of this team´s fans.
A lot of them have been pretty vocal about a change at QB, even if we are still in the preseason.
I wonder how much time will these fans give JC once the season starts?
How long will Zorn be able to back JC if he underperforms? He´s not his QB, he was picked by Gibbs, as you know.
We may have opinions, but as a fan who has a good chance to never meet JC, I don't see this as pressure. I don't see a group of arm chair QBs and GMs putting pressure on people who are considerably more talented than we are, or we would be out there. I do not see the connection you are trying to make.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:45 pm
by El Mexican
VetSkinsFan wrote:El Mexican wrote:I consider this forum a reflection of this team´s fans.
A lot of them have been pretty vocal about a change at QB, even if we are still in the preseason.
I wonder how much time will these fans give JC once the season starts?
How long will Zorn be able to back JC if he underperforms? He´s not his QB, he was picked by Gibbs, as you know.
We may have opinions, but as a fan who has a good chance to never meet JC, I don't see this as pressure. I don't see a group of arm chair QBs and GMs putting pressure on people who are considerably more talented than we are, or we would be out there. I do not see the connection you are trying to make.
I understand quite clearly what you´re saying, VetSkins.
I respectfully disagree that A LOT more pressure form the fans are on JC´s shoulders this year. At this juncture last year, this discussion was practically un heard of.
I also believe that Zorn and the FO have a very accute sense of what the fans want of this team. It is one of their jobs.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:10 pm
by Bob 0119
My gut still tells me that Jason hasn't been able to show us what he can really do.
Pick whatever reason you like:
3 offenses in four years.
Gimpy receivers (most of last year).
Gibbs conservative offenses.
Slow-forming offenses that left little time on the play-clock.
Lack of trust in Jason to audible at the line.
I'd like to see what he can do if he's allowed to audible. The fact that most of the pre-season we've seen the offense getting to the line with almost 20-seconds left on the play-clock is a good sign.
Campbell showed his best when he had to call his own plays last year. There were a couple of time where he went "no-huddle" and looked great.
He still has some "gimpy receiver" problems (Randle-el, Kelly) but he may have some help from a 2-TE set that gives him
ey and Davis (who looked great in pre-season) as additional targets with Moss and Randle-el or Moss and Thrash if need be.
It's not like Campbell is a complete stranger to the WCO so we will have to wait and see, but earlier in the pre-season Campbell was whipping the ball out of there, and later in the pre-season he seemed to be holding it too long.
That suggests to me that it was the play-call, not his own choice to hold the ball that long.
We'll have to wait and see.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:42 pm
by roybus14
The one guy that will probably benefit the most out of all of this is Colt Brennan. Don't get me wrong, JC is our guy and he will do fine this year but Brennan will be the one to really benefit from Zorn's presence and his work with QBs.
I agree with alot you guys in regards to JC having to learn new systems so often. The Times article was really the only light being shed on what rookie QBs go through in this league. It's like they through a young guy out there and expect him to immediately success with little to know help on the details of being an NFL QB. Then when he sucks bongwater they are ready cast him aside so fast you'd think it's NASCAR. It is what it is and JC is a paid professional and I'm sure he's dealing with it. It seems to me that Gibbs invested so much to get this kid only to not invest in him when he got here.
You give up that much for a QB and his mechanics are not an issue until Al Sanders and Jim Zorn get here???? That is why if you notice, the teams with really good QBs like Indy, NE, New Orleans, etc. don't have good backups. Sorgie and Cassell suck bongwater too and they are playing behind possibly two of the greatest to ever play in Manning and Brady but yet they are crap when they get in. Then I wonder why guys like Charlie Batch and Seneca Wallace are effective backups for their teams? Batch was a starter but Wallace was developed and coached by Zorn. He (Wallace) was even sent to a learning lab because he had trouble visually getting plays.
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:55 am
by Deadskins
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:58 am
by BigRedskinDaddy
JSPB22 wrote:http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80a735b6
Awesome link, brother. What a leader JZ is. I'm liking his promotion more and more...
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:47 am
by Deadskins
BigRedskinDaddy wrote:JSPB22 wrote:http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80a735b6
Awesome link, brother. What a leader JZ is. I'm liking his promotion more and more...
I meant to post this link:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80a7301e
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:25 pm
by BigRedskinDaddy
Meh. I liked the first one better lol. Does Schefter ever have anything good to say about the Skins?
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:03 pm
by John Manfreda
I think he needs more "Patches O' Houlihan" Training for now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_fOxd_3 ... re=related
If you can dodge a bag, u can dodge a pass rusher.