The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I didn't really want to start another thread, but I would like people to read this and honestly offer their comments, rather than having it buried in another thread. Not to mention, I added a Poll. Got to love polls.

The commentary on the signing of Jason Taylor has run the gamut of emotions here at THN. There has been stated every opinion from, “The Redskins’ Front Office never learns” to “The Redskins Front Office doing nothing would have been the worst move” and every opinion in between.

So, I thought we’d take what we know or at least accept as fact and separate it from what we think we know, otherwise called speculation, guessing, conjecture, pulling unsubstantiated opinion from one’s backside, etc., et. al., ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

What the Redskins Lost:
- Starting left defensive end Phillip Daniels
- 3rd down defensive tackle Phillip Daniels
- Consistency in training camp drills
- The player with the strongest work ethic, and the physically strongest player.
- Veteran Experience and Leadership
- A dominating occupier of space, when healthy. The immovable object.

What the Redskins Gained:
- Six-time Pro Bowl Defensive End
- Five-time 10+ Sack Defensive Lineman
- Veteran Experience and Leadership
- Former Defensive Player Of The Year on a 1-15 team
- A player who has not missed a game for any reason in eight seasons.
- Pure speed rusher, who often requires double teams, which frees up other defensive players, even when he fails to pressure or sack the QB.
- A player opposing teams will account for on every play. (Invaluable)

What Nobody Knows For Fact (Yet):
- Which team, the Redskins or the Dolphins, received the better trade value in the deal.
- How many plays Jason Taylor will make for the Redskins.
- How many plays Jason Taylor will blow.
- How many plays Jason Taylor will affect by “allowing” someone else to make a play.
- Who the Redskins would have drafted with the 2009 2nd Round Pick, although we can safely assume from history that it would not have been a defensive lineman.
- Who Miami will draft with the two picks, not that Washington would draft the same players. Miami needs everything, except a left tackle. Even that’s not certain. Washington only needs key replacements at key positions.
- How much getting out of Miami will be a motivation for Jason Taylor. Eleven sacks on a pitiful 1-15 team, with no help from teammates, cannot, or at least should not be understated.

The remains of the day, yesterday, bring the following:
Redskins fans can’t agree on anything other than being Redskins fans.
Redskins fans used to get peaved if the Redskins kept draft picks.
Redskins fans currently get peaved if the Redskins trade draft picks.
The teams with the most success in the salary cap era have both kept and traded draft picks. No successful team only does one and not the other.
No team is trading prime-time players in their prime for a reasonable price.
Washington’s problem has never been trading for prime-time players in their prime.
It has been trading for prime-time players past their prime.
Jason Taylor is not past his prime. Taylor had 56 tackles, 11 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, and 1 interception on that pathetic 1-15 team.
Phillip Daniels had 37 tackles, 2.5 sacks, and four forced fumbles on a playoff team.

Here is what every Redskins fan would have liked to have seen this season, and please don’t attempt to deny it: Everyone here knows Redskins fans all too well. And everyone was complaining, for lack of a better word, about how the Redskins failed to address the defensive line in the draft. It is doubtful those comments need to be reprinted here.

LDE Jason Taylor
LDT Cornelius Griffin
RDT Phillip Daniels
RDE Andre Carter

What there likely will be this season:

LDE Jason Taylor
LDT Cornelius Griffin
RDT Anthony Montgomery
RDE Andre Carter

On paper, it doesn’t look bad at all. But we know all about that “on paper” argument. The Redskins win it every year. The point to the trade argument is that it can be argued any way each person wants to argue it. There are plenty of facts and plenty of history to support any point of view. What happens on the football field this upcoming season will be the only true answer to whether or not the Redskins should have made this trade. And, whether we agree or disagree, Jason Taylor is now a Washington Redskin so it’s time to move beyond the trade and to the “I hope to hell he stays healthy until the season starts, otherwise the Redskins are in the same situation, and there aren’t any more Jason Taylor’s to be had on the trade / free agency market.” Or something like that.

Hail To The Redskins, Always.

I don't like it, but after talking ot a few people and getting a few different perspectives (in addition to the THNers here) it could be a great thing for the near future. I'm not going to get my hopes up (too far), but I think it will be a decent move considering everything.

I'd like the 3rd option.
We usually hate the Redskins making trades for players over 30 because they always end up being has-beens.
Jason Taylor isn't a has-been and some of the best Redskins defensive linemen have been acquired via trade.
Dave Butz, anyone?
OK. Taylor has a limited shelf life, so maybe that's a bad comparison.
Then again, who was the last Redskins defensive line draft pick that actually did anything of note? Rotational players don't count.

Yes. and Yes again.

If it were me in that situation I don't think I would have made the trade....theres a reason I'm not a GM. I think I would have found some of the other guys out there needing jobs. But, I'm very glad that we did it. JT will play at least two more years and get us at least 20 sacks over those two years.....no guarantee that a second rounder would have done that.

You make the trade. Why? None of the other DE's on the roster are starting caliber players. You don't engage in war with inexperienced and second rate soldiers.

It was reported that several other teams were trying to get Taylor as well, so the Skins weren't the only ones. Other teams recognize the talent and leadership Taylor brings. This was a good move by the Skins.

Losing a second rounder isn't ideal but it could have been worse. We could have given up a first rounder. If Jason Taylor has two good years left in him and plays at a high level, it may have been well worth it, even what he might bring to the locker room in terms of attitude.

I think to put a measuring stick to this trade you simply have to look at all of the second round picks that the Redskins have gotten in the past 10 years and look at who was an impact player in that bunch, even for a year. Jon Jansen was the best second rounder I can think of off the top of my head. I'd have to look at the others.

Here's the best I seem to be able to come up with (so far):

If we thought our pass rush was awful last season, how would it be without Phillip Daniels or Jason Taylor?

This is the thought that has me believing this was a good idea, regardless of how long Taylor is wearing a Redskins uniform. Even at half-speed, Taylor commands attention on every play. Name another Redskins defensive player who that can be said about. I can't even say that about Andre Carter, and he does command attention, but not on every play.

When you lose your a starting DE you look for help where ever you can find it on the open market. You don't go out and trade for a vet, you give the younger guy that's been backing up the starter the chance to win the spot against the rest of the guys that are consider "depth", however if that backup goes down in the next practice session, and the guys behind him are really not ready to step up then you look at trading for a Vet that can come in and play now.

Hell no. We overpaid.

El Mexican wrote:Hell no. We overpaid.

Yeah, but only by $23.49

Hanburger helper makes a great meal!

Good read, thanx for pointing out to alot of people how many 2nd rounders have been thrown away.

Here is the positive of bringing in an older veteran.
1. He can bring in some leadership.
2. He can help other players become great as well.
3. He can possibly still play and contribute on the field.
4. He is a proven commodity , been there done that. Experience goes along way.
5. It wouldnt be the Redskins if something like this did not happen. At least one shocker a year.

if you ask ANY gm in the league who are the most important guys on the field, the answer will be the qb, and the guy who can get his hands on the qb. both are 1st round picks, period. you never know what you'll get in the draft, we got a proven guy that can get his hands on the qb for a 2nd. no brainer. would you rather have another taylor jacobs on the sideline? or maybe an erasmus james as a 1st rounder, who pans out to be nothing in the big league? (no offense intended, i hope he becomes a monster in the b&g, but minny certainly wasted enough time and money on him, just trying to 'find out', but he was a high 1st round pick at the position, none the less.)

hailskins666 wrote:would you rather have another taylor jacobs on the sideline?

No, but could we have the Taylor Jacobs we HEARD about in practice in the game? THAT would be cool! Taylor was the opposite of Desmond Howard. Howard blew in practice, Taylor was apparently awesome. Then they both blew in games. I guess it's not COMPLETE opposite.

either way it is a wasted pick.

if a pick can net 20 sacks in 2 seasons, imo, it is not wasted.

hailskins666 wrote:either way it is a wasted pick.

if a pick can net 20 sacks in 2 seasons, imo, it is not wasted.

I'm for it too. Guys like this make the rest of our line better too.

I've seen some flack thrown at Snyder/Cerrato over this and I don't get it.

This isn't Bruce Smith.

The Redskins never would've traded for him if they didn't have an immediate need for him. Taylor has been available for months now, they could've picked him up much earlier if they really wanted him.

Mike Wise (of Washington Post infamy) is contrary to his name for even suggesting this is Snyder's return to "the old ways."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... tml?sub=AR

The suggestion that this guy is gonna wind up like Dieon is ridiculous. He's not making any more money here than he would've if he had just stayed in Miami and sand-bagged it there.

This was the right call. They didn't want to make it, but they were ready to make it when they needed to.

Plus getting him in here quickly gets him the maximum amount of Training camp and makes him that much better for us come the regular season.

Bob 0119 wrote:I've seen some flack thrown at Snyder/Cerrato over this and I don't get it

You realize Yes is leading No 21-2 right now? Yes leads No + Third Option 21-5?