The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Smith has the stats and Brown had the dedication that makes them worthy to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

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Larry Brown, without a doubt.

Jerry Smith won't get the votes, whether he deserves it or not. The veterans committee won't vote in a gay player.

Yes, to both.

GSPODS wrote:Jerry Smith won't get the votes, whether he deserves it or not. The veterans committee won't vote in a gay player.

That wasn't the question. Should they be in? A simple YES will suffice.

Countertrey wrote:Yes, to both.

GSPODS wrote:Jerry Smith won't get the votes, whether he deserves it or not. The veterans committee won't vote in a gay player.

That wasn't the question. Should they be in? A simple YES will suffice.

Then, I'll go with Yes, both should be in.

- Jerry Smith: best pass-catching tight end I've ever seen. Typical game (from Redskins/Cowboys I in 1972): Redskins start out as if asleep, and are down 13 - 0 after about ten minutes. Sonny trots slowly to the huddle, pulls up his pants because they've slipped down his beer-belly during the "run" onto the field, he grins, calls the play, takes the snap and cracks a pass twenty yards down-and-out to Smith. A few plays later he pops the same mind of pass to Smith on the other side of the field. Smith could beat defensive backs -- not just slip into empty space after the DBs had left to chase a WR. And Smith could catch any pass. Hall of Fame? Yes. He's already in mine.

- Larry Brown: think Clinton Portis with quicker acceleration. Think of the same Redskins/Cowboys game, 4th quarter, Redskins have battled back, now trail by 3 or 4 points. Redskins drive, with slicing 10 yard runs by Brown, passes to Brown, passes to Taylor and Smith and Jefferson, but most from Brown. Ball on the Dallas 11, and the Cowboys are all aiming at Larry Brown. Redskins in an I formation. Jurgensen hands to the fullback, Charlie Harraway, who sweeps left...an end sweep by the blocking back?? Well, yes, because Larry Brown nearly cuts the outside defender in half with a cross-body block, and Harraway glides untouched to the end-zone. If Brown had not wrecked his knees, if he'd have played healthy for a full career, he'd have been in the Hall already. Same age as OJ Simpson, but Brown ran better, blocked, caught passes, and, generally, won games. Simpson had stats. Maybe the perfect example of why you don't choose your players from the stats: if you were picking a team, you'd pick always Brown over Simpson, but OJ had "the numbers". Larry Brown, yes, belongs in the Hall. Another who is already in my personal Hall of Fame.

I think both should be in. Smith should have been in years ago. When he retired he had the record for the most TD's by a TE.
Anybody who ever saw Larry Brown play would say he should be in. The injury's he had, kept his stat's a little a little low for his career. Sadly that may keep him out.

Jerry Smith and Larry Brown are two of my favorite all-time Redskins, and the statistical analysis of both players was interesting. But unconvincing.

In Brown's case, however great a player he was when healthy, the fact is that he wasn't healthy often enough to put up the kind of consistent numbers it takes to get into the Hall. As for Smith, I agree he was a sensational receiver -- much more so than most of the other tights ends in the Hall. Unfortunately, he wasn't much of a blocker. So if you want to compare him with receiving tight ends like Newsome and Winslow, he doesn't have nearly enough catches to qualify. If you want to compare him to guys like Ditka and John Mackey, he may have had more catches but he wasn't in their league as a blocker.

For my money, if you want to talk about a couple of Redskins who are much more deserving of going to the Halll of Fame, I'd suggest Chris Hanburger and Len Hauss.

How many other centers in NFL history played in 192 consecutive games and six straight Pro Bowls? How many linebackers went to nine Pro Bowls in a 14-year career that included a season as NFL Defensive Player of the Year?

1: Jerry Smith was MONEY on 3rd down. He was an artist. Newsome and Winslow were not his contemporaries... you have to compare him with players of the same age.

2: Larry Brown was Lombardi's biggest contribution to the future of the Redskins. He observed that this underperforming talented back was slow off the snap count. He had LB tested, and discovered that he had a significant hearing loss. He was visually keying off one of the guards to know when the ball was snapped. A hearing aid built into the helmet addressed the problem... the rest was history.

Watching Larry in the 4th quarter of a long game, rip off a quick 6 yards (moving a pile 3 yards in the process), take forever to get up, slowly walk back to the huddle... you knew he could barely stand, much less walk... then rip off a sharp 8 yards off tackle, leaving a safety writhing on the ground. Awesome. And, he was at his best when we needed it the most.

Welch is right. As good as Portis is in protection, Larry Brown was better. Clinton is "devastating". Larry was "DEVASTATING!!!" He was a true beast on the field.

No one with a clue would disagree that the absence of Hanburger and Hauss from the HOF is a travesty. BUT... consider the plight of the poor HOF Governing Board... if they allowed in all the deserving Redskins, there would be no room for Cowboy coke heads and push off artists, or for token Cardinals (I mean, really... Roger Wehrle is in, but NOT Pat Fischer??? What's with that???).

No one with a clue would disagree that the absence of Hanburger and Hauss from the HOF is a travesty.

Absolutely.

- Hanburger playing LB at 215 pounds or so makes the classic Hanburger Tackle: bends low at the ball carrier's ankles, stands straight up, ball carrier lands on his head. You don't see it that often...

- Hauss: started for how many years at center? How many head coaches? And how important is a center?

welch wrote:

No one with a clue would disagree that the absence of Hanburger and Hauss from the HOF is a travesty.

Absolutely.

- Hanburger playing LB at 215 pounds or so makes the classic Hanburger Tackle: bends low at the ball carrier's ankles, stands straight up, ball carrier lands on his head. You don't see it that often...

- Hauss: started for how many years at center? How many head coaches? And how important is a center?

Hanburger holds team record for Pro Bowls. That should count for something. He & Fisher should be the next 2 "Skins in the HOF, Smith & Brown should follow.

Yes, Yes. both of these players belong in the HOF.

Given Larry Brown's size and the fact he played hurt, he was amazing to watch and I believe he always gave 100%. He was the "go to" running back for the Redskins.

The Sonny to Jerry Smith pass was also a thing of beauty. When everone in the stadium expected a pass to JS - the defense could not stop it. He was the "go to" receiver for the Redskins.

I guess my screename shows where I stand on this issue. I also believe Brown belongs in the HOF. He was my other idol at the same time. His courage and grit was Riggo-like...pre-Riggo and I'd remind my friends ad nauseum of that during the early 80's.

I guess my screename shows where I stand on this issue. Wink I also believe Brown belongs in the HOF. He was my other idol at the same time. His courage and grit was Riggo-like...pre-Riggo and I'd remind my friends ad nauseum of that during the early 80's.

I think Brown was better than Riggins...of course, entirely different. Brown had the fastest acceleration of any running back, or so said the all-time gret Jim Brown. In fact, Brown once said -- just after retirement -- that Larry Brown was the only running back he admired in the current NFL, because "Larry Brown is the only one who can do some things I can't".

- Brown didn't need much blocking. His OL would bother the defenders for a split second, but that was all Larry Brown needed. He took the handoff at full speed and was through any hole before the defenders blinked. Usually, it went snap-handoff and Brown was already four yards deep in the defense.

- Brown was a superb pass receiver. RB's today have specialized...they run, like Riggins they concentrate on holding the ball as tacklers try to claw it out of their hands, but Brown ran his routes, caught like the best of WR's, and could take a five-yard pass 85 yards for a TD.

- Brown blocked like a guy who had been a blocking back in college -- which he was. Perfect technique. Accelerating at the rusher or the defender, digging into the block like he had giant springs in his legs. Riggins was a good blocker when George Allen first got him, and made him an up-back for Brown and Mike Thomas, but Brown was the best.

- The greatest compliment I can make, which I say about Clinton Portis, is that he reminds me somewhat of Larry Brown.

- Brown was a superb pass receiver. RB's today have specialized...they run, like Riggins they concentrate on holding the ball as tacklers try to claw it out of their hands, but Brown ran his routes, caught like the best of WR's, and could take a five-yard pass 85 yards for a TD.

I remember him taking a screen pass 89 yds for a TD. I think it was against the Jets.

welch wrote: I think Brown was better than Riggins...of course, entirely different. Brown had the fastest acceleration of any running back, or so said the all-time gret Jim Brown. In fact, Brown once said -- just after retirement -- that Larry Brown was the only running back he admired in the current NFL, because "Larry Brown is the only one who can do some things I can't".

Bo Jackson

welch wrote: - Brown didn't need much blocking. His OL would bother the defenders for a split second, but that was all Larry Brown needed. He took the handoff at full speed and was through any hole before the defenders blinked. Usually, it went snap-handoff and Brown was already four yards deep in the defense.

Barry Sanders

welch wrote: - Brown was a superb pass receiver. RB's today have specialized...they run, like Riggins they concentrate on holding the ball as tacklers try to claw it out of their hands, but Brown ran his routes, caught like the best of WR's, and could take a five-yard pass 85 yards for a TD.

Charley Taylor

welch wrote: - Brown blocked like a guy who had been a blocking back in college -- which he was. Perfect technique. Accelerating at the rusher or the defender, digging into the block like he had giant springs in his legs. Riggins was a good blocker when George Allen first got him, and made him an up-back for Brown and Mike Thomas, but Brown was the best.

Clinton Portis

Larry Brown was the best ever. He was Jim Brown, Earl Campbell, Charley Taylor, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders and Clinton Portis all rolled into one. Brown was the Uber-player someone creates annually on Madden NFL to cheat the game. Unfortunately, his running style didn't allow him to prove it long enough for some people. He preferred to run through and over defenders than to run around them. Had Larry Brown been around the same number of seasons as Emmitt Smith, I think we'd all be saying, "Emmitt Who?" #43 was one of a kind.

Yes, GSPODS.

And, as Yup remembers, I also remember that the 89 yard pass was aganst the Jets in '72.

Love them both, but they just don't have the "hall of famenumbers.

Jerry should be in the hall, no doubt. He and ey are the best TE's in Skins history. Brown is/was different. He's one of the best all-around backs, maybe the best, in the history of football. Running, blocking, receiving, intangibles-- in the history of each category, he was one of the best of all time.

Very few players in the Hall were as good as he was.

It's too bad there aren't more videos of Larry Brown running. OK, maybe there are, but I don;t know where to look.

I remember a game in '72 against the Saints (I think) when CBS posted the camera behind the Redskins OL, and showed Larry Brown take the handoff and reach the LB's before the OL had barely moved.

Really, and I won't exaggerate about more than Jurgy, Smith, Riggo, the Hogs, Monk, Mitchell, and Charley Taylor. This is truth. Larry Brown had a mediocre OL, but with the "quick-opener" plays, he barely needed blockers.

I'm not kidding: Brown had the fastest takeoff of any running back I have ever seen. So fast that defenders had trouble even locating him. They could jam the line for short yardage, and somehow Brown would get four yards against a defense stacked should-to-shoulder.

Larry Brown had a WR's hands. Take the young, healthy, Brown and he could shame Santana Moss to the bench. He really was that good as a receiver. Brown was not an "outlet" or an emergency receiver: when Jurgensen ran the offense, the ball was going to Taylor or Smith or Brown or planned routes...I mean, not a route where the RB waits, imitates a block, and hopes that someone forgets him.

Larry Brown went out on his routes, and heaven help the defense. Indeed, that was an 89 yard play against the Jets, and the pass traveled about five yards. The rest was Larry Brown running all over ther field.

George Allen misused Brown. Ran him in late '72 after Brown had hurt both knees. Take the first four seasons, and Larry Brown is Hall of Fame.

And I'm forgetting the way Brown met tacklers: as hard as Riggins, but with a final burst of speed that Riggo had lost. Brown hit guys harder than they hit him.

Then turn it to his blocking. Crisp, in position, and ferocious.

Then the lovable quicks...Brown toward the 4th quarter, puffing as he gets up from a tackle, lifting his helmet to get more breath, dragging himself back to the huddle...dead on his feet...finished...get him out of there, everyone screamed until Kilmer handed again to Brown, and Brown ripped another seven yard gain with as much zip as in the first quarter. He dragged his body between plays to regain energy.

HoF, Larry Brown. There has been o one like him since.

Larry Brown went out on his routes, and heaven help the defense. Indeed, that was an 89 yard play against the Jets, and the pass traveled about five yards. The rest was Larry Brown running all over ther field.

My recollection is that it was a screen pass. He caught it BEHIND the scrimage line!

Screen pass...could well be. I was listening on Jets radio, since '72 was before the days when the TV network would broadcast a sellout into the home market.