The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Here's the short list of the best:

Ray Flaherty

Football would not look like it does today without Ray Flaherty, the Boston/Washington Redskins coach who with the help of Sammy Baugh, introduced the behind-the-line screen pass to the sport in the 1937 NFL title game against the Bears. But that wasn't the only innovation the legendary coach introduced to the league. He also was the first coach to utilize a two-platoon system, one unit for passing, the other unit emphasizing the run. Flaherty ended up winning two NFL championships with the Redskins and his overall coaching run totaled an impressive 80-37-5 mark.

Sid Gilman

Call him the innovator. The man who made pro football what it is today. Without Sid Gillman and his downfield passing attack, you'd be getting the dink and dunk on Sunday afternoons and the NFL might never have taken off in popularity the way it has. In fact, Sid Gillman laid the foundation back in the AFL with the Chargers of what the West Coast Offense is today. He was also the first coach to win division titles with both the AFL and NFL, and it was his idea to place names on the back of jerseys. If that isn't enough, it was actually Sid Gillman's idea for the AFL champion to play the NFL champion, a game that eventually became the Super Bowl. A true genius of the sport.

George Halas

His numbers are staggering. George Halas coached the Bears for 40 years (imagine Lovie Smith as coach 40 years from now). He won six NFL titles (the first in 1921), 318 regular-season games, and 324 total, records that stood until 1993. But look beyond the numbers to see the influence of George Halas. He was the first coach to hold daily practice sessions, and the first to study game film. If you ever visit the Hall of Fame, you'll know Halas' place amongst the greats, as the Hall is actually located on George Halas Drive.

Paul Brown

Paul Brown suffered only one losing season in 17 years. Throughout his career, Brown recorded a mark of 167-53-8, including three NFL championships and four AAFC titles. How did he do? By innovation, of course. Brown was first to grade his players based on film study, first to call plays from the sidelines, first to give players intelligence tests, and first to keep his players at a hotel the night before both home and road games. Brown also drew up some of the most complicated pass patterns of his time, confusing defenses and capitalizing on gaping holes other coaches weren't able to find.

Earl "Curly" Lambeau

The founder of the frozen tundra, Earl "Curly" Lambeau is the man who helped put the small-town Packers in the NFL. Lambeau was instrumental in forming the franchise in 1919 and helped the team achieve success as both a player and a coach. In fact, Lambeau's Packers won six NFL Championships under his watch (1929, 1930, 1931, 1936, 1939, 1944) and he went on to coach in the NFL for 33 years. He is credited with being the first passing coach in the league, and the Packers air attack was years ahead of its time, helping Lambeau collect 229 wins throughout his career as a head coach.

Vince Lombardi

Five championships in ten years. That about says it all, as does the fact that the Super Bowl trophy is named for maybe the most famous (and most quoted) football coach of all time. Some of his famous quotes include:

"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."
"If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?"
"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up."
"If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
"Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence."
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

Bill Walsh

Genius. The nickname says it all as Bill Walsh helped turn a terrible San Francisco franchise into the team of the 80s, changing the offensive game of the league as we know it, and passing his knowledge to a variety of assistants who continue to this day winning games based on his philosophies. In 10 seasons as the 49ers coach, Walsh's record was 102-63-1, including a 10-4 mark in the postseason. Walsh specialized in working with quarterbacks, and is credited with the success of everyone from Dan Fouts to Joe Montana, but is often overlooked for his expertise in the draft, as he was responsible for drafting superstars like Ronnie Lott and Jerry Rice.

Don Shula

The only perfect record in NFL history. How do you beat that? You don't. Don Shula is the winningest coach in NFL history with a career record of 347-173-6. Shula-coached teams reached the playoffs 20 times in 33 years, including six Super Bowl appearances and his teams won 10 games or more a staggering 21 times. Led the 1972 Dolphins to a perfect 17-0-0 season, capping off the historic campaign with a 14-7 win over the Washington Redskins.

Chuck Noll

Created a dynasty in Pittsburgh, turning the Steelers into the team of the 70s with four Super Bowl wins. Coached the Steelers for 23 seasons, but after a first-year record of 1-13, who could've predicted a Hall of Fame career and four titles for a team that hadn't won a championship in almost 40 years pre-Noll. Compiled a 209-156-1 record, including 16-8 in the postseason, by building his team through the draft year-after-year. His teams finished with winning records in 15 of his final 20 seasons as the Steelers head coach.

Bud Grant

An amazing athlete, Bud Grant actually played in both the NBA and NFL before becoming a coach. Grant won two titles with the Minneapolis Lakers then moved on to the Eagles to become the second leading receiver in the NFL in 1952. As head coach of the Vikings, Grant led his team to an incredible 10 division titles in 11 seasons, including the 1969 NFL Championship (losing to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl) to go along with NFC titles in 1973, 1974, and 1976. A mirror of Marv Levy, Grant was the first coach to lead his team to four Super Bowls, then went on to lose each one.

George Allen

Two-time NFL Coach of the Year, George Allen never suffered through a losing season in 12 years at the top. He was Jon Gruden before anyone ever thought of Chucky, as Allen was a workaholic who believed his office was home and sleep was a hobby. George Allen was the type of coach who could walk into a losing situation and turn things around quickly thanks to his determination and tireless work ethic. At the time of his retirement, his 118-54-5 record was tenth best all time.

John Madden

You might know him through his videogame or for his announcing, but John Madden is more than just a booming personality. Back when Madden took over the Raiders in 1974, he was the youngest head coach in the NFL and went on to guide the team to an overall record of 103-32-7, the best winning percentage of any coach in NFL history with over 100 wins. Madden led the Raiders to Super Bowl victory in 1976, then retired from the sidelines only a couple of years later as the stress of the game was taking a toll on the big man. John Madden has now become the most celebrated football announcer in history, winning 14 Sports Emmy Awards.

Tom Landry

If winning games in the playoffs is what really shows the skill of a coach, Landry is king with 20 career playoff victories, 5 NFC titles, and 2 Super Bowl championships. Coached the Cowboys to 20 consecutive winning seasons, that's right, 20 consecutive winning seasons, a mark that is not only mind-blowing in the NFL, but in any sport imaginable. Invented the 4-3 defense, the Flex defense, defensive keys to analyze offensive tendencies, and brought pre-shifting, the shotgun and man-in-motion back in vogue.

Marv Levy

Marv Levy was able to do what no other coach in history has ever done: Lead his team to four straight Super Bowls. If the Bills win just one, Levy moves up this list. If they win multiple rings, Levy would be near the top. But even with all of the wide kicks and superstars who forgot their helmets, what Levy accomplished with the Bills is still nothing short of amazing. Levy was named AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995 and was NFL Coach of the Year in 1988. His no-huddle offense was the stuff of legends and finished his career with a record of 154-120-0.

Joe Gibbs

One of the most successful coaches the league has ever seen, Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls, and four NFC Championships with the Redskins. Upon retiring, Gibbs was enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1996, then went on to have a successful career in NASCAR before being lured back by the richest coaching contract in NFL history to rejoin the Redskins. Gibbs' impact was immediate, as in only his second year, he helped lead the team to their first playoff birth since 1999.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/index.htm

The Short List Of The Worst:
(Bios Not Included)

Bert Bell
David Shula
Marion Campbell
Dave McGinnis
Joe Bugel
Harland Svare
Darryl Rogers
Bill McPeak
Bill Austin
John McKay

The Short List Of The Most Over-Rated:
Coaches with losing career records who somehow managed to hang around longer than was warranted:

Buddy Ryan
Wayne Fontes
Mike Tice
Bill Callahan
Bud Carson
Brad Childress
Gary Kubiak
Eric Mangini
Dave Wannstedt
Ray Rhodes
Al Saunders
Terry Robiskie
Jim Haslett
Herman Edwards
Romeo Crennel
Jerry Glanville
Forrest Gregg
Ted Marchibroda
Jim Hanifan
June Jones
Gregg Williams
Dennis Erickson
Rich Kotite
Mike Nolan
Dick Jauron
Norv Turner
Sam Wyche
Lindy Infante
Bruce Coslet
Dom Capers
Dan Henning

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/index.htm

GSPODS wrote:The Short List Of The Most Over-Rated:
Coaches with losing career records who somehow managed to hang around longer than was warranted:

Buddy Ryan
Wayne Fontes
Mike Tice
Bill Callahan
Bud Carson
Brad Childress
Gary Kubiak
Eric Mangini
Dave Wannstedt
Ray Rhodes
Al Saunders
Terry Robiskie
Jim Haslett
Herman Edwards
Romeo Crennel
Jerry Glanville
Forrest Gregg
Ted Marchibroda
Jim Hanifan
June Jones
Gregg Williams
Dennis Erickson
Rich Kotite
Mike Nolan
Dick Jauron
Norv Turner
Sam Wyche
Lindy Infante
Bruce Coslet
Dom Capers
Dan Henning

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/index.htm

I'd hate to see the LONG list!

GSPODS wrote:The Short List Of The Worst:
(Bios Not Included)

Bert Bell
David Shula
Marion Campbell
Dave McGinnis
Joe Bugel
Harland Svare
Darryl Rogers
Bill McPeak
Bill Austin
John McKay

Should include Mike Nixon (1959-1960) 4-18-2 & it seemed worse than that watching them.

Romeo Crennel

Please

Crennel has only been a head coach for 3 years, with one winning season, and somehow you have him as being overrated. The guy isn't proven yet as a hc, but his team did show a lot of improvement this past year. Way too early to be saying that he is overrated.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Romeo Crennel

Please

Crennel has only been a head coach for 3 years, with one winning season, and somehow you have him as being overrated. The guy isn't proven yet as a hc, but his team did show a lot of improvement this past year. Way too early to be saying that he is overrated.

Personally, I agree with you, however, statistically, which is how John Manfreda was and is comparing head coaches, Crennel currently sits in the "how is he keeping the job" category. That is not to say that in a year or two Romeo won't be sitting in the "Why didn't everyone offer this man a head coaching job?" category.

The original discussion was regarding Bill Parcells, who is over-rated any objective way he is compared with the true greats.

SPODS wrote:
The Short List Of The Worst:
(Bios Not Included)

Bert Bell
David Shula
Marion Campbell
Dave McGinnis
Joe Bugel
Harland Svare
Darryl Rogers
Bill McPeak
Bill Austin
John McKay



Should include Mike Nixon (1959-1960) 4-18-2 & it seemed worse than that watching them.

So true. And McPeak should come off of the list because he was building from the zero team that GP Marshall and Nixon left him. McPeak had some good drafts.

Where is Steve Spurrier?

welch wrote:So true. And McPeak should come off of the list because he was building from the zero team that GP Marshall and Nixon left him. McPeak had some good drafts.

Where is Steve Spurrier?

Any list is going to be subjective, at least to some degree.
The only starting point I could think of was career win-loss record.
I thought this would be a decent subject of debate and discussion seeing as how Redskins topics are not exactly at a premium right now.

Where is Steve Spurrier? Probably on a golf course.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Romeo Crennel

Please

Crennel has only been a head coach for 3 years, with one winning season, and somehow you have him as being overrated. The guy isn't proven yet as a hc, but his team did show a lot of improvement this past year. Way too early to be saying that he is overrated.

The same could be said for Eric Mangini (also on that list), and I take issue with including Terry Robiskie, if only because he hasn't even coached a full season (been a mid-season interim coach twice), and don't you have to be rated before you're over-rated? No one is hailing him as the next coming of Lombardi. Stupid list.

Mursilis wrote:The same could be said for Eric Mangini (also on that list), and I take issue with including Terry Robiskie, if only because he hasn't even coached a full season (been a mid-season interim coach twice), and don't you have to be rated before you're over-rated? No one is hailing him as the next coming of Lombardi. Stupid list.

Robiskie coached a total of nine games and has a career record of 2-7.
OK. Probably unfair to include Robiskie in this list.

Mangini's .438 career winning percentage ties him with Brad Childress, Gary Kubiak and Mike Mularkey. Like Crennel, in a few years we could be asking why everyone didn't offer Mangini a job. But as of right now, it's a question of how is he keeping his job? Particularly when someone like Dennis Green, who has a career .546 winning percentage over 207 games, is available.

GSPODS wrote:

Mursilis wrote:The same could be said for Eric Mangini (also on that list), and I take issue with including Terry Robiskie, if only because he hasn't even coached a full season (been a mid-season interim coach twice), and don't you have to be rated before you're over-rated? No one is hailing him as the next coming of Lombardi. Stupid list.

Robiskie coached a total of nine games and has a career record of 2-7.
OK. Probably unfair to include Robiskie in this list.

Especially given that both times he was mid-season replacement on mediocre or bad teams - a can't win situation if there ever was one. I'd have to at least give the man a chance to develop a team through the offseason before I could make a judgment on his true coaching abilities.

Mangini's .438 career winning percentage ties him with Brad Childress, Gary Kubiak and Mike Mularkey. Like Crennel, in a few years we could be asking why everyone didn't offer Mangini a job. But as of right now, it's a question of how is he keeping his job? Particularly when someone like Dennis Green, who has a career .546 winning percentage over 207 games, is available.

Dennis Green underperformed with superior talent, at least in Minny, and he did nothing noteworthy in Az (but then, who does?). He's overrated. As for Mangini (and any other novice coach), my personal rule of thumb is generally 3, as in we should wait 3 seasons before starting to judge a coach. Of course there will be exceptions. It took Spurrier only 2 seasons to prove he had neither the ability nor the desire to be a great coach at the NFL level, and other coaches (Saban, Petrino) have flamed out in less than 3. Generally, though, it's a mistake to judge too early - after all, Gibbs lost his first 5 games as a head coach. .000 is an awful winning percentage in any sport. Luckily, it got better for JG.

There should also be a special cateogory for guys like Al Saunders, proven coordinators who have not excelled as head coaches. Being a good coordinator is respectable in and of itself.

Mursilis wrote:There should also be a special cateogory for guys like Al Saunders, proven coordinators who have not excelled as head coaches. Being a good coordinator is respectable in and of itself.

I agree with that.

The original point of this thread was that John Manfreda was arguing that Bill Parcells is some kind of coaching genius. He isn't, by any objective comparison. But, to be fair, I had to expand the lists.

GSPODS wrote:

Mursilis wrote:There should also be a special cateogory for guys like Al Saunders, proven coordinators who have not excelled as head coaches. Being a good coordinator is respectable in and of itself.

I agree with that.

The original point of this thread was that John Manfreda was arguing that Bill Parcells is some kind of coaching genius. He isn't, by any objective comparison. But, to be fair, I had to expand the lists.

Parcells is certainly a HOF Jerk.

Steve Spurrier and Mike Nixon were the two worst coaches I've ever seen work a team into oblivion.

Spurrier was the least prepared pro football coach I've ever seen.

My two will shatter all of your guys worst list.

Steve Spurrier and Dave Campo are the two worst in my opinion. Also the Jets had a pretty bad coach before Parcells came in the early ninties. Campo was a lovable guy but he just flat out stank as a head coach.

I challenge anybody to find me two worse coaches!

i agree with the over rated ones except for Romeo Crennel. he did a good job getting the Browns back into competitors. i think brian billick should be on it too. i kno he won the super bowl but lets face it he didnt win it marvin lewis did. another great reason for him being overrated is that he was a "Offensive mastermind" in Minnesota but when he went to baltimore he failed to ever produce a good qb or a good offense for that matter. trent dilfer wasnt really that good he just didnt make mistakes and he took advantage of getting the ball deep in the opponents territory thanks to a great defense. barry switzer should be on it too because those players were so talented on that team when he inherited from Jimmie Johnson

HEROHAMO wrote:My two will shatter all of your guys worst list.

Steve Spurrier and Dave Campo

Good choices, but there are many awful head coaches.

Kevin Gilbride and Bruce Coslet, for instance. Dan Henning. Dick LeBeau (he of the .267 winning percentage...).

All of these guys had worse careers (by winning %) than Spurrier. Many are fine coordinators, but were terrible head coaches.

I can't understand how Coslet stayed around for 10 years (.379 winning percentage). The best he ever did in a full season was 8-8, and he got fired after that. How the heck did he get another shot??