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Is Betts on the Block? Does Mathis = Mendenhall
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:04 pm
by CanesSkins26
SkinsFreak wrote:I read an interesting perspective this morning. A piece of that...
Legal issues aside, the Redskins already have a competent kick returner in Rock Cartwright, who the team just re-signed to multi-year contract. Granted, the contract was not a blockbuster, but it also wasn't the type of contract that would allow the Redskins to just cast him off.
Is there something else to this signing or is it just roster fodder?
Could it be that the vague rumors of Ladell Betts being on the block are true?
If Betts were traded, and Rock was shifted to Clinton Portis' primary backup, then I could see the need for a new kick returner.
To me, it has to be either that, or, that the Redskins clearly just want someone to push Rock Cartwright to improve even more.
If Betts were to be traded, aside from what you might get in return for him, that could also be a chance for Marcus Mason, a kid I like a lot.
Today's NFL is about speed. Mathis has got that. He could be a huge factor in our return game. I'll wait and see what happens.
If there is some truth to the Betts rumors that would help explain why the Skins are working out Mendenhall.
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:26 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
I will never figure out the endless "trade Betts" banter. I've always said, sure, if someone needs a starter and likes him enough to give us starter compensation, then heck yeah! Other then that, he filled in like a starter when Portis was injured, apparently loves it here since he took solid backup but not starter money to stay without even testing the market. I'm sure he could have tested the market and still gotten what we paid him.
Unlike guys like Mathis and PacMan that people seem interested in for some God knows reason he's got a great character and to my knowledge hasn't been in trouble ever.
Can someone explain to me other then someone just blowing us away with a starting RB package why we would even consider trading him much less "shop" him? It defies explanation, logic and sanity. Let's get rid of reasonably priced guys who WANT to be here? Yeah, that'll make us better.
I don't get it. According to my wife I don't get a lot of things, but that's another story.
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:36 pm
by SkinsFreak
KazooSkinsFan wrote:I will never figure out the endless "trade Betts" banter. I've always said, sure, if someone needs a starter and likes him enough to give us starter compensation, then heck yeah! Other then that, he filled in like a starter when Portis was injured, apparently loves it here since he took solid backup but not starter money to stay without even testing the market. I'm sure he could have tested the market and still gotten what we paid him.
Unlike guys like Mathis and PacMan that people seem interested in for some God knows reason he's got a great character and to my knowledge hasn't been in trouble ever.
Can someone explain to me other then someone just blowing us away with a starting RB package why we would even consider trading him much less "shop" him? It defies explanation, logic and sanity. Let's get rid of reasonably priced guys who WANT to be here? Yeah, that'll make us better.
I don't get it. According to my wife I don't get a lot of things, but that's another story.
I agree with you, Kazoo. It's just a rumor at this point and it'd be pure speculation to even take it any further at this time. All I can think of is, maybe some other team likes Betts and lot too and are willing to give up some impressive compensation for him. Or, maybe Zorn thinks Betts isn't the ideal back for his system, although I would tend to think Betts fits better than Rock would. Maybe the team likes what they see in Mason and that, in turn, makes Betts expendable. But who the hell knows? Betts is a great guy and teammate, but if someone is willing to throw the house at us... you never know.
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:41 pm
by SkinsFreak
CanesSkins26 wrote:If there is some truth to the Betts rumors that would help explain why the Skins are working out Mendenhall.
nah, I don't think the Skins would spend a draft pick on a running back, this year anyway. We may need one in a year or two, but not now. This talk about Betts may be just what it is at this point, a rumor, that may very well die a quick death.
All that said, I still want to see Mason get in there. 
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:40 pm
by yupchagee
SkinsFreak wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:If there is some truth to the Betts rumors that would help explain why the Skins are working out Mendenhall.
nah, I don't think the Skins would spend a draft pick on a running back, this year anyway. We may need one in a year or two, but not now. This talk about Betts may be just what it is at this point, a rumor, that may very well die a quick death.
All that said, I still want to see Mason get in there.
I agree with you. Mendenhall will go in the 1st rnd, probably before we pick. You don't use a 1st rnd pick on a backup. Bringing him in makes no sense to me.
BTW please don't use such small type. These old eyes can't handle it.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:54 am
by VetSkinsFan
I had always thught Betts made a lot of money for a back up. He's not a 3rd down back, he's not sharing the load, he's a #2. Yes, he did well for us when CP got hurt, but I still thought it was a rather large contract.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:37 am
by 1niksder
VetSkinsFan wrote:He's not a 3rd down back, he's not sharing the load, he's a #2. Yes, he did well for us when CP got hurt, but I still thought it was a rather large contract.
I agree but it was worth it... It opened the teams eyes, the next year the re-sgned
ey before he hit the market and now it looks like it has started a trend (signing your own draft picks before they hit the market) in the front office.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:14 pm
by gay4pacman
yupchagee wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:If there is some truth to the Betts rumors that would help explain why the Skins are working out Mendenhall.
nah, I don't think the Skins would spend a draft pick on a running back, this year anyway. We may need one in a year or two, but not now. This talk about Betts may be just what it is at this point, a rumor, that may very well die a quick death.
All that said, I still want to see Mason get in there.
I agree with you. Mendenhall will go in the 1st rnd, probably before we pick. You don't use a 1st rnd pick on a backup. Bringing him in makes no sense to me.
I bet mendenhall will be there at 21 and if we do trade betts to get another pick, quality depth is hard to come by in the nfl. With portis' durability an issue, getting a strong bruiser power back to be a good change of pace would be a good signing, "if" we trade betts.
i was really impressed by mendenhall at the combine and pleasantly suprised how fast he ran. He showed he has the break away speed to be a home run threat s well as a grinder.
BTW please don't use such small type. These old eyes can't handle it.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:16 pm
by gay4pacman
I bet mendenhall will be there at 21 and if we do trade betts to get another pick, quality depth is hard to come by in the nfl. With portis' durability an issue, getting a strong bruiser power back to be a good change of pace would be a good signing, "if" we trade betts.
i was really impressed by mendenhall at the combine and pleasantly suprised how fast he ran. He showed he has the break away speed to be a home run threat s well as a grinder.
-------dont know what happened there----
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:59 pm
by 1niksder
No use saying stay on topic in the Mathis thread when this is a topic of it's own.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:16 pm
by GSPODS
Who would Betts be "on the block" to?
Who would trade for Betts and make it worth the Redskins while to trade him?
Assume he's not being traded to a division opponent.
Who needs a running back?
The Raiders. The Lions. The Titans.
Who has anything the Redskins would want in a player trade?
Who is likely to trade an acceptable draft pick or picks for Betts?
Of these teams, nobody is standing out in a player trade scenario but draft selections certainly appear reasonable.
If the Redskins do trade Betts, I hope they have the sense to avoid trading for protected picks. If New England can trade for the #7 pick, so can the Redskins.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:38 pm
by CanesSkins26
KazooSkinsFan wrote:I will never figure out the endless "trade Betts" banter. I've always said, sure, if someone needs a starter and likes him enough to give us starter compensation, then heck yeah! Other then that, he filled in like a starter when Portis was injured, apparently loves it here since he took solid backup but not starter money to stay without even testing the market. I'm sure he could have tested the market and still gotten what we paid him.
Unlike guys like Mathis and PacMan that people seem interested in for some God knows reason he's got a great character and to my knowledge hasn't been in trouble ever.
Can someone explain to me other then someone just blowing us away with a starting RB package why we would even consider trading him much less "shop" him? It defies explanation, logic and sanity. Let's get rid of reasonably priced guys who WANT to be here? Yeah, that'll make us better.
I don't get it. According to my wife I don't get a lot of things, but that's another story.
I'm not saying that I agree with all of these arguments, but here a few as to why we would consider trading Betts...
1. He doesn't score td's and has a fumbling problem. In his career he has 13 combined td's and 10 fumbles. Even in 2006 when he piled up all of those yards, he still had more fumbles (6) than td's (5). That season, despite not starting until halfway through the year, he was still tied for 2nd among all NFL running backs in fumbles.
2. While he piled up a lot of yards in 2006, he did so against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. His big games that season came against the 9th, 11th, 23rd, 26th (twice), and 31st ranked rushing defenses.
3. He isn't a very good complement to CP. While Betts is a solid back, he is a similar runner to CP, only less effective. He isn't a good 3rd down back because he can't pass protect well. He also isn't very fast so he doesn't give the defense a different look when he spells CP. An argument can be made that we would be better off with a smaller, quicker back with some home run ability to spell CP.
4. If you take away his 2006 season during which he started, Betts hasn't been that effective in a strictly backup roll. Last season he average 3.6 yards per carry and in 2005 he average 3.8 ypc. Betts seems like the type of back that needs a large number of carries to get going and is more effective the more times that he touches the ball. Coming off the bench for a carry or two here and there doesn't really seem to suit him (see NY Giants goal line stand in week 3).
5. His 2006 season is still somewhat fresh in people's minds and as a result we might be able to get a 2nd round pick for him. His value will likely only go down from here unless CP gets hurt again so now might be the time to try and get some value by trading Betts.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:18 pm
by yupchagee
2. While he piled up a lot of yards in 2006, he did so against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. His big games that season came against the 9th, 11th, 23rd, 26th (twice), and 31st ranked rushing defenses.
I'm sure that most RB's do best against poor run D's. QB's typically have their best games against poor pass D's. Pass rushers have their best games against mediocre linemen. That's just how it is.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:36 pm
by spudstr04
GSPODS wrote:Who would Betts be "on the block" to?
Who would trade for Betts and make it worth the Redskins while to trade him?
Assume he's not being traded to a division opponent.
Who needs a running back?
The Raiders. The Lions. The Titans.
Who has anything the Redskins would want in a player trade?
Who is likely to trade an acceptable draft pick or picks for Betts?
Of these teams, nobody is standing out in a player trade scenario but draft selections certainly appear reasonable.
If the Redskins do trade Betts, I hope they have the sense to avoid trading for protected picks. If New England can trade for the #7 pick, so can the Redskins.
Let's see, the Lions have Roy Williams..I'd trade Ladell and a 2nd rounder for him, hell I might trade Betts and the 1st rounder for him.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:43 pm
by yupchagee
spudstr04 wrote:GSPODS wrote:Who would Betts be "on the block" to?
Who would trade for Betts and make it worth the Redskins while to trade him?
Assume he's not being traded to a division opponent.
Who needs a running back?
The Raiders. The Lions. The Titans.
Who has anything the Redskins would want in a player trade?
Who is likely to trade an acceptable draft pick or picks for Betts?
Of these teams, nobody is standing out in a player trade scenario but draft selections certainly appear reasonable.
If the Redskins do trade Betts, I hope they have the sense to avoid trading for protected picks. If New England can trade for the #7 pick, so can the Redskins.
Let's see, the Lions have Roy Williams..I'd trade Ladell and a 2nd rounder for him, hell I might trade Betts and the 1st rounder for him.
1) Is Williams on the block?
2) He had a breakout yr in 06, but nothing else special. I wouldn't give up Betts & a 1st rndr for him
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:21 pm
by fleetus
yupchagee wrote:2. While he piled up a lot of yards in 2006, he did so against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. His big games that season came against the 9th, 11th, 23rd, 26th (twice), and 31st ranked rushing defenses.
I'm sure that most RB's do best against poor run D's. QB's typically have their best games against poor pass D's. Pass rushers have their best games against mediocre linemen. That's just how it is.
So are you agreeing with him or disagreeing? I think his point is, the main reason we hold Betts in high regard is his 2006 season. If you look at his performance for those 6-8 starts, he should have put up decent numbers. Can he do it for 16? Can he do it against top 5 defenses? Can he hold on to the ball? All of these questions make for an interesting trade topic. If a team viewed Betts highly enough o offer a 2nd rd. pick or better, I think we should do it.
If a team like Carolina, needed a solid RB with veteran experience to back up Deangelo Williams, would we take Muhsin Muhammed or recently DUI'd Dwayne Jarrett for Betts?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:08 pm
by PeetyPa
I think Betts is not going anywhere. He catches the ball better than Portins and I think Zorn likes that because you trow the ball a lot to RBs in the WCO, besides, Betts is a solid back that can start if we need him to. We are good at that position, we dont need to draft a RB this year, maybe in two years , not now.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:18 pm
by fleetus
PeetyPa wrote:I think Betts is not going anywhere. He catches the ball better than Portins and I think Zorn likes that because you trow the ball a lot to RBs in the WCO, besides, Betts is a solid back that can start if we need him to. We are good at that position, we dont need to draft a RB this year, maybe in two years , not now.
You're right, this is a, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" subject. However, there isn't much else going on in Redskins Park and we are a fan base that is conditioned to have new zany headlines to discuss every week. So we are going through withdrawals right now. Talking about a Betts trade is an easy target to get our fix from. If we really split hairs, we can imagine another NFL team ignoring Betts mediocrity in pass protection, securing the football and running between the tackles and offer us a deal too good to refuse.
If not Carolina with Muhammed and Jarrett, maybe the Jets would trade us Dwayne Robertson for Betts? Man, Robertson next to C. Grif would be sweet!
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:47 pm
by yupchagee
fleetus wrote:yupchagee wrote:2. While he piled up a lot of yards in 2006, he did so against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. His big games that season came against the 9th, 11th, 23rd, 26th (twice), and 31st ranked rushing defenses.
I'm sure that most RB's do best against poor run D's. QB's typically have their best games against poor pass D's. Pass rushers have their best games against mediocre linemen. That's just how it is.
So are you agreeing with him or disagreeing? I think his point is, the main reason we hold Betts in high regard is his 2006 season. If you look at his performance for those 6-8 starts, he should have put up decent numbers. Can he do it for 16? Can he do it against top 5 defenses? Can he hold on to the ball? All of these questions make for an interesting trade topic. If a team viewed Betts highly enough o offer a 2nd rd. pick or better, I think we should do it.
If a team like Carolina, needed a solid RB with veteran experience to back up Deangelo Williams, would we take Muhsin Muhammed or recently DUI'd Dwayne Jarrett for Betts?
A little of both. I've never been sold on Betts. He had 1 good yr (06). He has never played consistently like a 2nd rnd pick. Muhammed is over the hill. I don't know enough about Jarrett. It also depends on how much Mason has developed since last summer & if Shelton is healthy. I watched Shelton in college & when healthy he is a beast.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:29 pm
by fleetus
I agree, I like Shelton too. He might even do better in the backup role than Betts if given the chance. (health being the main variable there)
I wonder, since we have two small speedy playmaking WR's and two RB's of similar styles and skills, if we couldn't find a team that needs a speed WR and solid starting caliber RB AND might have a decent possession WR and backup RB to trade? (2 for 2) So here's what I came up with, if we were to offer ARE and Betts for example:
ATL : Michael Jenkins and J. Norwood
CAR: Muhsin Muhammed and Goings
CLE: Jurevicius and whoever or draft pick (would love to get Joe!)
DET: Furrey and whoever or pick (he caught 98 receptions in 2006! A great possession type guy and Detroit could use someone like ARE to complement Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson
NYJ: Leon Washington and Brad Smith (or Cotchery or Dwayne Robertson who is reportedly still on the block)