The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

i think Caldwell is good receiver that could help us. he is only been in the league 5 years and he was the patriots top receiver in 2006.

What is your opinion?

I hate to state the obvious, but, it depends on the money

It's like asking, should I buy a Chevy or a Porsche. Well if I can get a Porsche for the same price, sure! So, it depends on the SPECIFIC free agent and the SPECIFIC contract he requires.

Caldwell should stay. We need someone with good hands and he has them.

Both

I would like to keep Caldwell and then draft a kid. Caldwell only gives Jason continuity, which he needs.

Trick question... Caldwell IS a free agent

1niksder wrote:Trick question... Caldwell IS a free agent

Does that mean he's free?

He's had 1 good year out of 6. I say no.

He's not a bad option for depth, say as a #4 receiver. But in no way should he be kept to be a starter.

Yes. He was very clutch when we needed him last year. I think the team wants to keep him but he wants to test the market.

Jake wrote:Yes. He was very clutch when we needed him last year. I think the team wants to keep him but he wants to test the market.

It was sickening at how underutilized he was last year! He was/is our 2nd best WR and most polished WR beside Moss. He made amazing efforts and catches away from the body. He should definitely be kept. I just don't know how much room there is for him.

IMHO, I'd keep him over ARE. I said all last year that ARE is NOT a #2 WR... He is at home in the slot where he can get a mismatch and use his elusiveness... I'd still take Rece over him because he is more polished overall.

1. Moss
2. Whomever we acquire (Fitzgerald, Ocho...etc)
3. Rece
4. ARE

So what do we do with ARE if he is at #4? Bump him to kick returns also ESPECIALLY if we don't resign Rock.

Plus IMO, ARE would be even more open against a dimeback.

Now, if we don't get a "big" WR that is an automatic starter.

1. Moss
2. Rece
3. ARE/New WR
4. New WR/ARE

I would work in the new kid/guy slowly and have them share time at those positions.

Just my humble opinion.

You just don't want your Redskins Caldwell jersey going to waste....

PulpExposure wrote:You just don't want your Redskins Caldwell jersey going to waste....

Nope not at all. I was dumb enough to purchase a Lloyd jersey. My 1st purchase and my last. I will be playing football in it cus I dont care. But I do believe I made a sound argument.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Jake wrote:Yes. He was very clutch when we needed him last year. I think the team wants to keep him but he wants to test the market.

It was sickening at how underutilized he was last year! He was/is our 2nd best WR and most polished WR beside Moss. He made amazing efforts and catches away from the body. He should definitely be kept. I just don't know how much room there is for him.

IMHO, I'd keep him over ARE. I said all last year that ARE is NOT a #2 WR... He is at home in the slot where he can get a mismatch and use his elusiveness... I'd still take Rece over him because he is more polished overall.

1. Moss
2. Whomever we acquire (Fitzgerald, Ocho...etc)
3. Rece
4. ARE

So what do we do with ARE if he is at #4? Bump him to kick returns also ESPECIALLY if we don't resign Rock.

Plus IMO, ARE would be even more open against a dimeback.

Now, if we don't get a "big" WR that is an automatic starter.

1. Moss
2. Rece
3. ARE/New WR
4. New WR/ARE

I would work in the new kid/guy slowly and have them share time at those positions.

Just my humble opinion.

I guess you can have whatever opinion you want, but I don't think there are many people that will agree Caldwell is a better WR than ARE. Rece has had one good year playing w/the the best QB to play in the NFL this decade and possibly one of the best of all time.

He did have some good spots last year (as did Thrash) and was underutilized, but ARE had some monster games last year.

I would prefer to see ARE as our #3, but I'm fine w/him at #2 and playing in the slot when we are in trips.

A rookie WR in the 2nd round or lower would be fine w/me. No big name FA (or mid-name for that mather) WR and definately don't waste a 1st round pick on a WR. The return for the investment is just not that good even if you get lucky and pick the right one.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Jake wrote:Yes. He was very clutch when we needed him last year. I think the team wants to keep him but he wants to test the market.

It was sickening at how underutilized he was last year!

Agreed. Every chance he got he was making plays. There's no reason to not keep him. He's still young, as well.

Thank God he didn't come here during the Chuck N Duck days because his career would probably be on par with Jacquez Green and Reidel Anthony right about now.

I guess you can have whatever opinion you want, but I don't think there are many people that will agree Caldwell is a better WR than ARE. Rece has had one good year playing w/the the best QB to play in the NFL this decade and possibly one of the best of all time.

I would prefer to see ARE as our #3, but I'm fine w/him at #2 and playing in the slot when we are in trips.

The difference between ARE and Caldwell is negligible. They've both been in the league for the same amount of time, and while ARE has better reception and yardage numbers, they have the same number of receiving touchdowns. The difference between them, statistically speaking, is slim.

It's not a surprise at all that Zorn wants to move ARE into the slot. He simply isn't good enough or productive enough to be a #2 receiver.

He did have some good spots last year (as did Thrash) and was underutilized, but ARE had some monster games last year.

What are these monster games that you speak of? Looking at his game log from last season, the only game that would even come close to being called a monster game was week 1 against Miami. Keep in mind, however, that a good chunk of his yardage that game came from a hail mary at the end of the first half. He also didn't score that game. Other than that one game I'm not sure where you are seeing "monster" performances from him. I mean he only had 1 td all season. That's pathetic for a starting receiver.

skinsfan#33 wrote:I guess you can have whatever opinion you want, but I don't think there are many people that will agree Caldwell is a better WR than ARE. Rece has had one good year playing w/the the best QB to play in the NFL this decade and possibly one of the best of all time.

He did have some good spots last year (as did Thrash) and was underutilized, but ARE had some monster games last year.

I would prefer to see ARE as our #3, but I'm fine w/him at #2 and playing in the slot when we are in trips.

A rookie WR in the 2nd round or lower would be fine w/me. No big name FA (or mid-name for that mather) WR and definately don't waste a 1st round pick on a WR. The return for the investment is just not that good even if you get lucky and pick the right one.

Count me in. I agree that Reche is a better WR than Randle El. Randle El BELONGS in the slot, never as a #2. All Reche ever did for the Skins was make clutch catches. Maybe Zorn can see how underutilized he was and incorporate him more (providing they bring him back).

Champsturf wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:I guess you can have whatever opinion you want, but I don't think there are many people that will agree Caldwell is a better WR than ARE. Rece has had one good year playing w/the the best QB to play in the NFL this decade and possibly one of the best of all time.

He did have some good spots last year (as did Thrash) and was underutilized, but ARE had some monster games last year.

I would prefer to see ARE as our #3, but I'm fine w/him at #2 and playing in the slot when we are in trips.

A rookie WR in the 2nd round or lower would be fine w/me. No big name FA (or mid-name for that mather) WR and definately don't waste a 1st round pick on a WR. The return for the investment is just not that good even if you get lucky and pick the right one.

Count me in. I agree that Reche is a better WR than Randle El. Randle El BELONGS in the slot, never as a #2. All Reche ever did for the Skins was make clutch catches. Maybe Zorn can see how underutilized he was and incorporate him more (providing they bring him back).

I don't think anyone's arguing that ARE should be a wide out. I also think the majority is in agreeance that we need a #2. The jury's still out on Caldwell, IMO, due ot the fact that he never got any STARTING time with JC. I say the same about him as I do about Mix. Give 'em enough rope and see if they can save themselves. If not, they'll hang themselves.

CanesSkins26 wrote:What are these monster games that you speak of?

Perhaps he was talking about the huge number of clutch catches ARE made last year.

Total receiving yards and touchdowns doesn't really tell the whole story. ARE was gold on clutch receptions and extending drives last year, and we all know in Gibbs' offense, most of those catches came on 3rd down when the defenses were in nickel and dime packages expecting a pass. Of ARE's 51 catches last year, 38 of those catches, 74.5%, produced a 1st down. That's pretty remarkable and can't be overlooked.

For comparison, percentage of catches for 1st downs: Owens 85.2%, Chad Johnson 79.6%, Randy Moss 75.5%. So ARE ranks right up there with the best in that regard.

I agree ARE belongs in the slot and will thrive there. ey was our leading receiver last year, followed by Moss. Adding a stud #2 will open up ARE in the slot. Last year, defenses just had to basically cover Moss, ey and ARE, with no other major threat. A stud #2 or a big possession guy like Sweed, Kelly or Hardy, and now the defenses can't double cover guys and that will leaves big openings in the secondary for a slot guy like ARE. I believe the addition of a true #2 would actually bode well for ARE.

Caldwell did make a few nice catches last year, but he came in late and didn't get much work with Campbell, as he only produced 15 catches for 141 yards. I agree, however, that they should keep him or let him compete. In the WCO, we'll need a larger group of receivers anyway. ARE will be in the slot this year, we've already heard Zorn mention that. Moss will most likely remain at the #1 position. I'm fairly confident they will add that #2 possession guy this offseason. That still leaves Caldwell at the #4 spot. But that's okay, they will be rotating guys and will have several 4 receiver formations.

yupchagee wrote:He's had 1 good year out of 6. I say no.

He was great last year, he just didn't start playing until half-way throught the year. He was our best 3rd down option at WR.

Honestly.....and I'm sure I'm in the minority but I'd like to see Mix get an honest shot.

I doubt he will.... He wasn't given a chance to show his potential during games last year... Hopefully there is some promising practice film on him that will make Zorn give him a legit shot.


Let's be honest here. This offense won't be awesome next year. It won't. It takes 2-3 years for an offense to gel. It took Gibbs offense a year, it took Al's offense a year, it'll take Zorns offense a year. What is my point?

IF, IF, IF Zorn feels that Mix has potential... Let's just rock with him for this year. Let's work him in slowly and use him in the slot kinda like what the Saints did with that awesome kid they drafted 2 years back.

We have talent at WR, too much talent to play.

1. Moss
2. Rece
3. Mix/ARE 40/60

Rece and ARE are good WR's. I jsut happen to feel that Rece is the better/more polished WR. I'm not saying he's a 90 and ARE is a 78. Just that Rece has the minute attributes that push him over the top. He has better hands and can make catches away from his body more consistently than ARE IMHO. Now once the ball is in his hands ARE is better but that doesn't stem from awesome WR skills, that stems from his background in punt/kick offs.

Point is, they're both good athletes. We have a good talent in Mix....lets rock with this group, alter the starting lineup as needed... Just an idea.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Honestly.....and I'm sure I'm in the minority but I'd like to see Mix get an honest shot.

I doubt he will.... He wasn't given a chance to show his potential during games last year... Hopefully there is some promising practice film on him that will make Zorn give him a legit shot.


Let's be honest here. This offense won't be awesome next year. It won't. It takes 2-3 years for an offense to gel. It took Gibbs offense a year, it took Al's offense a year, it'll take Zorns offense a year. What is my point?

IF, IF, IF Zorn feels that Mix has potential... Let's just rock with him for this year. Let's work him in slowly and use him in the slot kinda like what the Saints did with that awesome kid they drafted 2 years back.

We have talent at WR, too much talent to play.

1. Moss
2. Rece
3. Mix/ARE 40/60

Rece and ARE are good WR's. I jsut happen to feel that Rece is the better/more polished WR. I'm not saying he's a 90 and ARE is a 78. Just that Rece has the minute attributes that push him over the top. He has better hands and can make catches away from his body more consistently than ARE IMHO. Now once the ball is in his hands ARE is better but that doesn't stem from awesome WR skills, that stems from his background in punt/kick offs.

Point is, they're both good athletes. We have a good talent in Mix....lets rock with this group, alter the starting lineup as needed... Just an idea.

I agree Mix should get an honest shot. His special teams play last season should have earned him that much. I think he will get a shot because there are more four and five receiver sets in Zorn's offense than there ever were in the Al Saunders - Approved by Joe Gibbs offense.

The Redskins are not going to solve all of their offensive issues by drafting one wide receiver. So, barring any future free agency moves, the Redskins will need production from a fourth wide receiver immediately.

My thought (provided Caldwell is in the equation) is as follows:

WR 1 - Santana Moss
WR 2 - Reche Caldwell
WR 3 (Slot) - Antwan Randle-El
WR 4 - Anthony Mix
WR 5 - Draft Selection

If the Redskins acquire a big name free agent:
WR 1 - Big Name Free Agent
WR 2 - Santana Moss
WR 3 (Slot) - Antwan Randle El
WR 4 - Reche Caldwell
WR 5 - Anthony Mix

The Redskins would not need to draft a wide receiver if they acquire one through free agency. Either way, Caldwell knows the offense, makes the plays when he gets an opportunity, and has eyes in the back of his head. Or is it just that his eyes are really that big?

There is way too much emphasis put on MIX here. There's hundreds of other WR's out there that have to prove themselves to get a shot. Why are we assuming he deserves more of a shot than he has already gotten in hundreds of practice sessions?

Thrash is a much better WR and before his injury was looking like one of our most reliable WR's.

As for the main topic, Caldwell, I'll repeat what I said on page 1, what is the price? 2.5/mil guaranteed per year? no way. 1 mil guaranteed per year? sure.

fleetus wrote:There is way too much emphasis put on MIX here. There's hundreds of other WR's out there that have to prove themselves to get a shot. Why are we assuming he deserves more of a shot than he has already gotten in hundreds of practice sessions?

Thrash is a much better WR and before his injury was looking like one of our most reliable WR's.

As for the main topic, Caldwell, I'll repeat what I said on page 1, what is the price? 2.5/mil guaranteed per year? no way. 1 mil guaranteed per year? sure.

The emphasis is on having at least one wide receiver taller than 6'0".
Thrash is listed at 6'0". The Redskins have two wide receivers on the roster who are both well above the 6'0" mark.

In January, the Redskins signed former University of Virginia receiver Billy McMullen to the roster. Another tall, rangy receiver, McMullen is 6-4 and 215 pounds.

I don't care how talented your receiving corps happens to be, you can't be a successful passing offense in today's NFL with the Smurfs. Most defensive backs are bigger than the Redskins' starting wide receivers. If the Smurf receivers can't get separation (big problem last season), they aren't going to be out-leaping defensive backs for the ball.

The original Smurfs had Art Monk. This group of Smurfs needs the same type of possession receiver. While I have no issues with James Thrash, he is not that possession receiver.

Let's not forget that Caldwell is the main point of discussion for this thread. I know it's hard to not mention the other WR's when we're discussing where Rece fits in to the lineup.