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New Claim of Taping Emerges Against Patriots
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:12 am
by welch
New Claim of Taping Emerges Against Patriots
By JOHN BRANCH and GREG BISHOP
INDIANAPOLIS — The Patriots’ pattern of illicitly videotaping the signals of opposing N.F.L. coaches began in Coach Bill Belichick’s first preseason with the team in 2000, a former Patriots player said....
Bill Polian, the president of the Indianapolis Colts, said: “It’s behind us. It’s time to move forward.”
But emerging details continue to pull the league back in time. On Feb. 2, The Boston Herald reported that the Patriots might have taped a St. Louis Rams walkthrough practice the day before the teams played in the 2002 Super Bowl. The Patriots won, 20-17, on a last-second field goal. Belichick, speaking to The Boston Globe, recently denied that the practice was taped.
In the hallway at the convention center here, Mike Martz wanted to talk about his new job as San Francisco’s offensive coordinator. Instead, reporters peppered him with questions about the Patriots. Martz was the coach of the Rams when the teams met in the Super Bowl six years ago.
He took exception to the theory that the Patriots could not have gleaned much information from taping the walkthrough. He said indeed they could, but added that was not the point.
“For somebody to say that, it’s kind of disgusting,” Martz said. “The whole point is if they really cheated. To say he took some steroids and it did help or it didn’t help, that’s never the point. The point is, to all these high school coaches and high school kids and college kids, that if they did cheat, that’s the point.”
Martz said he assumed the walkthrough report was false. A similar sentiment was voiced by Chicago Bears Coach Lovie Smith, the Rams’ defensive coordinator that season.
“It’s just hard for me to fathom anyone would do anything like that,” Smith said. “I’m sure, if there’s something to it, No. 1, it will come out later. Time has a way of taking care of all things.”
Martz was asked if he wanted the N.F.L. to continue investigating the walkthrough. “Of course,” he said. “I was involved in that. I was responsible for a lot of people in that game.”
....
Full story at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/sport ... ts.html?hp
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:31 am
by REDEEMEDSKIN
The more I hear about the allegations (or revelations) about the extent of the Patriots' cheating, the more I am convinced that they threw the Super Bowl.
Knowing Goodell's desire to preserve the league's image, would it be too far-fetched to believe that the Commissioner "asked" Belichick not to win the game, so as to not have the Champs embroiled in a media mess?
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:41 pm
by SkinsJock
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:The more I hear about the allegations (or revelations) about the extent of the Patriots' cheating, the more I am convinced that they threw the Super Bowl.
Knowing Goodell's desire to preserve the league's image, would it be too far-fetched to believe that the Commissioner "asked" Belichick not to win the game, so as to not have the Champs embroiled in a media mess?
I didn't see a smiley face to indicate that you are kidding BUT I just know you have to be kidding? Right? I mean, did you watch the game - did you see the number of times the delayed blitz and the defensive schemes worked against that offense?
FINALLY - how many times do you think Tyree and the idiot QB for the giants worked on that pass & catch against the helmet?
c'mon TRO - you probably believe in ET too?
I hate the patriots and Belicheat but the point of cheating is because he will do anything to win and nobody is going to prove anything anyway - there will never be a case made here, trust me. That is what Goodell and the NFL will do - they have no hope of trying to influence a game especially when it involves a 19 game undefeated season - are you kidding me?
Re: New Claim of Taping Emerges Against Patriots
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:59 pm
by yupchagee
welch wrote:New Claim of Taping Emerges Against Patriots
By JOHN BRANCH and GREG BISHOP
INDIANAPOLIS — The Patriots’ pattern of illicitly videotaping the signals of opposing N.F.L. coaches began in Coach Bill Belichick’s first preseason with the team in 2000, a former Patriots player said....
Bill Polian, the president of the Indianapolis Colts, said: “It’s behind us. It’s time to move forward.”
But emerging details continue to pull the league back in time. On Feb. 2, The Boston Herald reported that the Patriots might have taped a St. Louis Rams walkthrough practice the day before the teams played in the 2002 Super Bowl. The Patriots won, 20-17, on a last-second field goal. Belichick, speaking to The Boston Globe, recently denied that the practice was taped.
In the hallway at the convention center here, Mike Martz wanted to talk about his new job as San Francisco’s offensive coordinator. Instead, reporters peppered him with questions about the Patriots. Martz was the coach of the Rams when the teams met in the Super Bowl six years ago.
He took exception to the theory that the Patriots could not have gleaned much information from taping the walkthrough. He said indeed they could, but added that was not the point.
“For somebody to say that, it’s kind of disgusting,” Martz said. “The whole point is if they really cheated. To say he took some steroids and it did help or it didn’t help, that’s never the point. The point is, to all these high school coaches and high school kids and college kids, that if they did cheat, that’s the point.”
Martz said he assumed the walkthrough report was false. A similar sentiment was voiced by Chicago Bears Coach Lovie Smith, the Rams’ defensive coordinator that season.
“It’s just hard for me to fathom anyone would do anything like that,” Smith said. “I’m sure, if there’s something to it, No. 1, it will come out later. Time has a way of taking care of all things.”
Martz was asked if he wanted the N.F.L. to continue investigating the walkthrough. “Of course,” he said. “I was involved in that. I was responsible for a lot of people in that game.”
....
Full story at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/sport ... ts.html?hp
Maybe he should be running the CIA
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:26 pm
by REDEEMEDSKIN
SkinsJock wrote:REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:The more I hear about the allegations (or revelations) about the extent of the Patriots' cheating, the more I am convinced that they threw the Super Bowl.
Knowing Goodell's desire to preserve the league's image, would it be too far-fetched to believe that the Commissioner "asked" Belichick not to win the game, so as to not have the Champs embroiled in a media mess?
I didn't see a smiley face to indicate that you are kidding BUT I just know you have to be kidding? Right?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but, NO, I am not kidding.
The Giants certainly played the game well, and "The Catch" was one for the ages, but, I cannot for one second believe that the New England Patriots that played the game were the 18-0 Patriots that lambasted the Skins, and steamrolled the competition.
Are YOU kidding ME?
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:51 pm
by SkinsJock
Not at all - I would tease you a lot but I could never look at this game that way - NO WAY!
The Pats were that good and the giants all season long were so bad that even after winning the SB they are still not in the top 5 in the betting to go back. BUT, nothing will ever convince me that a coach could ever be persuaded to "lose" a game on purpose in the present NFL and especially not a Super Bowl to end a perfect season - NO WAY!
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:12 am
by DarthMonk
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:The more I hear about the allegations (or revelations) about the extent of the Patriots' cheating, the more I am convinced that they threw the Super Bowl.
Patently absurd.
Knowing Goodell's desire to preserve the league's image, would it be too far-fetched to believe that the Commissioner "asked" Belichick not to win the game, so as to not have the Champs embroiled in a media mess?
Yes, it would be too far fetched.
DarthMonk
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:10 am
by HEROHAMO
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:SkinsJock wrote:REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:The more I hear about the allegations (or revelations) about the extent of the Patriots' cheating, the more I am convinced that they threw the Super Bowl.
Knowing Goodell's desire to preserve the league's image, would it be too far-fetched to believe that the Commissioner "asked" Belichick not to win the game, so as to not have the Champs embroiled in a media mess?
I didn't see a smiley face to indicate that you are kidding BUT I just know you have to be kidding? Right?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but, NO, I am not kidding.
The Giants certainly played the game well, and "The Catch" was one for the ages, but, I cannot for one second believe that the New England Patriots that played the game were the 18-0 Patriots that lambasted the Skins, and steamrolled the competition.
Are YOU kidding ME?
The thought of a game being fixed is certainly not far fetched in my mind. Do you remember the AFC championship game a couple years back? The infamous tuck rule?
I honestly think that year fresh after 9/11 the Patriots were fixed to win the whole thing and they did.
The Patriots this year however, I think it was more of the Patriots being over confident. The whole two weeks previous to the SuperBowl the Pats kept getting questions like how will it be to go 19-0. Also someone already had a book written called 19-0 and planned to sell it after the game.
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:41 pm
by TincoSkin
i thought it was a trown game the day of. did you see bradys face? ive said this before on this board. he didnt look like himself. he had no spark he wasnt running around head butting people. he looked defeated right when he stepped onto the field. i think they threw it in exchange for keeping info about their deep seeded cheating quiet.
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:21 pm
by Irn-Bru
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble, but, NO, I am not kidding.
The Giants certainly played the game well, and "The Catch" was one for the ages, but, I cannot for one second believe that the New England Patriots that played the game were the 18-0 Patriots that lambasted the Skins, and steamrolled the competition.
That's because there were
two New England Patriots teams last year. Not that they really were a night/day phenomenon, but teams adjusted to the Patriots and the Patriots steadily lost ground as the dominant team in the league last year. Even with their best attempts at staying hungry they got complacent and cocky. They were due for an upset.
Conspiracy theories of throwing the Super Bowl are absurd.
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:30 pm
by DarthMonk
TincoSkin wrote:i thought it was a trown game the day of. did you see bradys face? ive said this before on this board. he didnt look like himself. he had no spark he wasnt running around head butting people. he looked defeated right when he stepped onto the field. i think they threw it in exchange for keeping info about their deep seeded cheating quiet.
Here's my take. As far as Brady goes, he (1) fell victim to the very thing he talked about not falling victim to the whole week. He got too excited before the game and did not start the game with a full tank. He was doing laps of high-fiving the front row half an hour before kickoff (2) was playing on a team that simply got its collective butt kicked up front by a team more ready to bring it on both sides of the ball.
A "fixed" game is not likely as the refs were viewed, even by many Pats fans I know, as acting very neutrally. A "thrown" game is even less likely.
A few stats:
NYG
NET YARDS RUSHING 91
Total Rushing Plays 26
Average Gain per Rushing Play 3.5
Tackled for a Loss (Number-Yards) 1-1
NET YARDS PASSING 247
Times Sacked (Number-Yards) 3 - 8
PAT
NET YARDS RUSHING 45
Total Rushing Plays 16
Average Gain per Rushing Play 2.8
Tackled for a Loss (Number-Yards) 3-7
NET YARDS PASSING 229
Times Sacked (Number-Yards) 5 - 37
The Giants ran effectively and the Pats could not. Brady was routinely being hammered and/or hurried while Manning consistently had more time - and still it took the great drive at the end.
Certainly Brady did not "throw" the game - not that you explicitly said he did.
DarthMonk
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:58 pm
by yupchagee
TincoSkin wrote:i thought it was a trown game the day of. did you see bradys face? ive said this before on this board. he didnt look like himself. he had no spark he wasnt running around head butting people. he looked defeated right when he stepped onto the field. i think they threw it in exchange for keeping info about their deep seeded cheating quiet.
Send your idea to Oliver Stone. He'll make it into a movie. Only a few conspiracy buffs will take it seriously.
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:15 pm
by welch
I think that the regular season Giants/Pats game showed that the teams were about even. Might even be that the Giants defensive coordinator held back a few plays, or designed a few new ones based on what they'd seen.
The Pats offense did not seem to know how to handle the Giants defense. Maybe a spread/finesse offense just has trouble with an aggressive smash-mouth defense?
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:14 am
by Countertrey
The only "rigged outcome" in this game was the cheapening of the MVP award... that was stolen from a Giants defensive player so that Manning could have one to match his superior brother's.
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:29 am
by Mursilis
Countertrey wrote:The only "rigged outcome" in this game was the cheapening of the MVP award... that was stolen from a Giants defensive player so that Manning could have one to match his superior brother's.
You're so very right, but I'm thinking the defensive line guys (one of whom should have gotten MVP) probably stole votes from each other, leaving Manning the winner. The Giants D won that game for 'em - no doubt about it.
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:50 pm
by Countertrey
Mursilis wrote:Countertrey wrote:The only "rigged outcome" in this game was the cheapening of the MVP award... that was stolen from a Giants defensive player so that Manning could have one to match his superior brother's.
You're so very right, but I'm thinking the defensive line guys (one of whom should have gotten MVP) probably stole votes from each other, leaving Manning the winner. The Giants D won that game for 'em - no doubt about it.
That Eli got any votes at all is proof of a conspiracy!
On the other hand, the Giants are now thoroughly saddled with an overconfident and undertalented QB for several more years. Ain't karma grand???
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:32 pm
by REDEEMEDSKIN
Still not convinced otherwise. This Pats thing looks like it will get even more nasty. Just a hunch.
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:47 pm
by langleyparkjoe
Hey I wonder if the guy who taped the signals is available to do my daughter's birthday party????