The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Very often the post by Wamcma is true.

When I joined this website, it was because I hoped to share and listen to well informed comments by REAL Redskins fans. So hoping to hear or see some worthwhile comment by well informed fans I come back every so often.
Now all I see is a bunch of negative analysis aimed at the management. Nothing but negative complaints and I can only guess these people think they could do better. If so why? ....................................................
................................................................................................
Who are these neophyte fans anyway. Why not bring something positive to this great venue.

IMO, Dan wants to make the Redskins a winner. Has he made mistakes? Absolutely! Is the current team of coaches as experienced as you would like? Probably not, we don't know if this is a good choice or not. Is there a chance they will make a good team of coaches? I think so.

To make a point about lack of experience is certainly part of the discussion but to continue Bad Mouthing Dan and Vin adds nothing.

I would like to suggest we all try to discuss the subject and limit our personal attacks.

Free Speech can not be curtailed, no matter how annoying.

Staying on topic in whatever post you are commenting on is a must - don't use threads to vent if it has no bearing on the topic - if you must do that then go to TALKING SMACK.

We are all REAL fans - some are just more pissed off than others right now.

My advice - if the horse isn't moving/breathing it is probably dead and you can stop beating it.

NC43Hog wrote:My advice - if the horse isn't moving/breathing it is probably dead and you can stop beating it.

And if you're French, you might want to consider popping it in the oven, preparing a nice red wine sauce, and inviting some friends round.

Sorry, that was off topic. I'll try to redeem myself. Ah yes - it would certainly improve my enjoyment of these boards if some of the pessimistic diatribe was cut out. I like a good moan myself - after all, I'm English. But, sometimes, it would be nice to log in and find something optimistic to read.

UK Skins Fan wrote:

NC43Hog wrote:My advice - if the horse isn't moving/breathing it is probably dead and you can stop beating it.

And if you're French, you might want to consider popping it in the oven, preparing a nice red wine sauce, and inviting some friends round.

Sorry, that was off topic. I'll try to redeem myself. Ah yes - it would certainly improve my enjoyment of these boards if some of the pessimistic diatribe was cut out. I like a good moan myself - after all, I'm English. But, sometimes, it would be nice to log in and find something optimistic to read.

um, that was intended for the 2nd statement in your post, not the 1st.

SKINS#1 wrote:Very often the post by Wamcma is true.

When I joined this website, it was because I hoped to share and listen to well informed comments by REAL Redskins fans. So hoping to hear or see some worthwhile comment by well informed fans I come back every so often.
Now all I see is a bunch of negative analysis aimed at the management. Nothing but negative complaints and I can only guess these people think they could do better. If so why? ....................................................
................................................................................................
Who are these neophyte fans anyway. Why not bring something positive to this great venue.

IMO, Dan wants to make the Redskins a winner. Has he made mistakes? Absolutely! Is the current team of coaches as experienced as you would like? Probably not, we don't know if this is a good choice or not. Is there a chance they will make a good team of coaches? I think so.

To make a point about lack of experience is certainly part of the discussion but to continue Bad Mouthing Dan and Vin adds nothing.

I would like to suggest we all try to discuss the subject and limit our personal attacks.

Ok now I'm confused you named the thread "negative" but wrote positive which is it?

We can't be informed about the ineptness of our FO??

Does being a fan mean we can't comment on moves made by the FO??

Of course we will support the coaches and players.

This doesn't change the fact that Snyder has gone"all in" with a very inexperienced HC and OC!

And in my opinion it's been his people skills that has back him into this position...It's quite evident that Zorn was never a candidate until last weekend, otherwise the Skins would have never extended an offer to Byner.

I seem to have irreconcilable differences with the way management operates. I am convinced that a flawed leadership at the Front Office will ALWAYS be unable to put a consistently winning team on the field. I truly harbouur no expectations whatsoever about the success of the Redskins under the ownership of Daniel Snyder as long as a competent GM is not named and given total control.

You guys are right. It makes no sense for somebody like me to ruin your experience. As one poster put it, we all have options. I will take advantage of one of them. It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

In the meantime I truly wish each and every one of you well and great success in all your future endeavours whether Skins related or life in general.

I wish to take advantage of this opportunity to thank Boss Hog and all the staff members for their hard work to keep this site alive. It takes great idealism and loyalty to put so many long hours of hard work to keep things going in an orderly manner.

Thanks for hosting the Hognostications. That was a lot of fun too.

Have a good holiday this weekend RIC and look forward to seeing you refreshed and invigorated on Mon!

too soon!

The combines are coming up - is that where you will be hanging out I wonder?

wamcma wrote:

When I joined this website, it was because I hoped to share and listen to well informed comments by REAL Redskins fans. So hoping to hear or see some worthwhile comment by well informed fans I come back every so often.
Now all I see is a bunch of negative analysis aimed at the management. Nothing but negative complaints and I can only guess these people think they could do better. If so why?
This particular thread is a bunch of "crap". Joe Gibbs is the best thing to happen to Skins ever. He has left a positive imprint on my team and I am grateful for his devotion.
Who are these neophyte fans anyway. Why not bring something positive to this great venue.

Pulled from another thread (becuase it's off topic) Please define REAL Redskins fans for us

Redskin in Canada wrote:.. You guys are right. It makes no sense for somebody like me to ruin your experience. As one poster put it, we all have options. I will take advantage of one of them. It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

Hopefully not for long - we might not agree on all things BUT your opinions are always respected here as far as I am concerned and I'm sure that many others feel the same.

I am equally concerned about the Snyder Cerrato way of doing business and very much agree that we need a good GM BUT I am also cautiously optimistic that (now that Zorn is in place) Snyder and Cerrato will now leave the football decisions to their coaches and hopefully support them like they did with Gibbs - time will tell



Come back soon RiC

SkinsJock wrote:and very much agree that we need a good GM BUT I am also cautiously optimistic that (now that Zorn is in place) Snyder and Cerrato will now leave the football decisions to their coaches

Never in a quadrillion years.

Snyder wants the credit for whatever success might come his way more than the actual success itself.

SkinsJock wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:.. You guys are right. It makes no sense for somebody like me to ruin your experience. As one poster put it, we all have options. I will take advantage of one of them. It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

Hopefully not for long - we might not agree on all things BUT your opinions are always respected here as far as I am concerned and I'm sure that many others feel the same.

I am equally concerned about the Snyder Cerrato way of doing business and very much agree that we need a good GM BUT I am also cautiously optimistic that (now that Zorn is in place) Snyder and Cerrato will now leave the football decisions to their coaches and hopefully support them like they did with Gibbs - time will tell



Come back soon RiC

Seconded. RIC offers consistently good analysis.

Redskin in Canada wrote: It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

It's always a good idea to step away once in awhile, though you will be missed.

Even though you're completely pessimistic about the Redskins, you've maintained a good sense of humor about it. Perhaps it's the humor of the damned

See you soon.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I seem to have irreconcilable differences with the way management operates. I am convinced that a flawed leadership at the Front Office will ALWAYS be unable to put a consistently winning team on the field. I truly harbouur no expectations whatsoever about the success of the Redskins under the ownership of Daniel Snyder as long as a competent GM is not named and given total control.

You guys are right. It makes no sense for somebody like me to ruin your experience. As one poster put it, we all have options. I will take advantage of one of them. It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

In the meantime I truly wish each and every one of you well and great success in all your future endeavours whether Skins related or life in general.

I wish to take advantage of this opportunity to thank Boss Hog and all the staff members for their hard work to keep this site alive. It takes great idealism and loyalty to put so many long hours of hard work to keep things going in an orderly manner.

Thanks for hosting the Hognostications. That was a lot of fun too.

Sooooo, coaxing Joe Gibbs, the most successful coach in Redskin history, and then having his team go to the playoffs 2 times in 3 years was not successful. Dan Snyder took over in 99 and all he has done is throw as much money possible to make this team a winner. To me he is a fans dream because he will spend the money on players. Now I understand that there is a learning curve, and I think that this franchise is on the right track. I mean it could be worse, imagine a guy like peter Angelos running the redskins.

The last three years where the most succesful the Redskins have been since 1991. It seems like people want to lambast the owner for any reason when the new staff we have in place hasnt even played a game, let alone a mini camp.

Snyder took the right step by hiring Gibbs, and hopefully we will have continued success as the owner matures.

gotta love the new canadian holiday "family day" ahaha, take it easy RIC have fun on our long weekend.

Sooooo, coaxing Joe Gibbs, the most successful coach in Redskin history, and then having his team go to the playoffs 2 times in 3 years was not successful. Dan Snyder took over in 99 and all he has done is throw as much money possible to make this team a winner. To me he is a fans dream because he will spend the money on players. Now I understand that there is a learning curve, and I think that this franchise is on the right track. I mean it could be worse, imagine a guy like peter Angelos running the redskins.

The last three years where the most succesful the Redskins have been since 1991. It seems like people want to lambast the owner for any reason when the new staff we have in place hasnt even played a game, let alone a mini camp.

Snyder took the right step by hiring Gibbs, and hopefully we will have continued success as the owner matures.

One step forward: hiring the best living football coach.

Two steps forward: keeping quiet while the great coach worked humbly to rebuild the basic structure of the Redskins:

- small touches, like having retired players around Redskin Park, as "next best thing" to having maintained the winning tradition that began with George Allen's tough "old guys" and continued through the Gibbs teams

- bigger touches, like hiring more scouts...recall Don Warren?

- insisting that Redskin football starts with the Redskins being tougher than an opponent...even when that meant modifying some of the offense that Al Saunders brought in

- insisting, and demonstrating, that the team wins by holding together, supporting each other

- clearing out the silly players collected under Snyder, Cerrato, and Spurrier. Taking the criticism when some of the new players didn't work out, and just moving on...as Gibbs always did before (that is, who were the top draft choices between Darrell Green and Bobby Wilson? Jay Schroeder was the young "golden boy" QB, but who started SB 22?)

- hiring a strong DC and a respected OC (even though Gibbs has always been an offense guy). That looked like a foundation to lead the team after Gibbs retired...which he would have done next year, or three years from now, now matter what.

So Gibbs was great, and Snyder got him back. However, Gibbs does not own the Redskins. Snyder owns them, and has the same total control that George Preston Marshall did. What Gibbs could could in four years, Snyder can rip out.

GPM though he knew more football than any of the new-fangled general managers. As some of the other NFL founders gave up football control, GPM kept doing what he did best...and worst.

GPM ignored the repeated arguments from the great Shirley Povich...GPM ignored the arguments that Marshall's bigotry was immoral, and ignored Povich's plain practical argument that the Redskins could not possibly compete as long as Marshall insisted that the team hire only white players. It took the US Department of Interior, which (as best I remember) owned the new DC Stadium, to force Marshal to move an inch.

Even then, GPM never changed his basic approach until he had a stroke and others took the Redskins away from him.

That's where we are with Snyder: he has shown no signs of changing. He wants to be the general manager of the Redskins because...well, because he owns the team and he can do anything he pleases. We didn't elect him, and he won't come up for re-election, either.

Is that "negative"? Well, I think Snyder should hire a GM and restrict himself to marketing and such other things that he might know...or, at least, where he cannot do much damage.

Snyder disagrees. He likes things as they are...he does not think that the organization structure is broken. GPM was the same. It was painful, but we survived. And, who knows...maybe Snyder is a great GM just waiting to show us his skills. I doubt it, though.

I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

while I have hopes that Zorn is going to be a very good coach and that the defense may be as good if not better I also have some big reservations as to how the players that are here are going to fit this new offense - we may get very lucky but this is going to be different and we really are taking a chance on some growing pains with this offensive change that Snyder has forced us into.

Maybe this will make Snyder realize how important it is to finally hire the GM that we and he needs.

NC43Hog wrote:Free Speech can not be curtailed, no matter how annoying.

Staying on topic in whatever post you are commenting on is a must - don't use threads to vent if it has no bearing on the topic - if you must do that then go to TALKING SMACK.

We are all REAL fans - some are just more pissed off than others right now.

My advice - if the horse isn't moving/breathing it is probably dead and you can stop beating it.

Even if the horse wasn't dead before, the beating this one has taken ensures it ain't coming back.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

Gibbs

Year 1 = 6-10
Year 2 = 10-6
Year 3 = 5-11
Year 4 = 9-7

based on this pattern

Year 5 = 4-12
Year 6 = 8-8
Year 7 = 3-13
Year 8 = 7-9
Year 9 = 2-14
Year 10 = 6-10

How's that for continuity?

I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

There is another way, a third path. I remember the wins and I know all about the losses. I am no ostrich I just want to see a little optimism. Or at least let's trash the other teams.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

There's nothing "ostrich" about choosing the optimistic path. I'm well aware of the weaknesses of our front office, and I would rather they were corrected. But they are there, they aren't going anywhere, and there's nothing I can do about it.

It's not criticism of the front office that bothers me - it's just the fact that it seems to leak into each and every thread right now. It's boring, and smacks of self pity. That's a pretty unattractive thing to see.

All I hope for is that we leave the Snyder-bashing in the Snyder-bashing threads, and talk football in the football threads.

Even during the dark years while Spurrier was here and Cerrato was running the front office, the Redskins managed to win a few games.

Even during the Gibbs II Rebuilding when Gibbs brought in the best offensive and defensive coaches in the league, and when the Master had the final say on all front office personnel decisions, the Redskins managed to lose a lot of games.

Sometimes the team was healthy and well-rested, but couldn't manage to get things going -- or when they did manage to get things going, couldn't hold a lead. At other times critical players were hurt -- or dead, and the team came together to play some inspired football.

Add all of this up, and it seems it is hard to predict the perfect formula for success. And even when the Redskins seem to do everything wrong, the end result isn't much different from when they seem to be doing everything right.

Maybe Zorn will be a catalyst and the Redskins will be next year's Cindarella team. Maybe everything will fall apart and fans will tear their hair out and collectively take a lemming-like plunge into the Potomac.

I don't think things are nearly as bad as te Snyder-haters make them out to be.

JonC56 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I seem to have irreconcilable differences with the way management operates. I am convinced that a flawed leadership at the Front Office will ALWAYS be unable to put a consistently winning team on the field. I truly harbouur no expectations whatsoever about the success of the Redskins under the ownership of Daniel Snyder as long as a competent GM is not named and given total control.

You guys are right. It makes no sense for somebody like me to ruin your experience. As one poster put it, we all have options. I will take advantage of one of them. It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

In the meantime I truly wish each and every one of you well and great success in all your future endeavours whether Skins related or life in general.

I wish to take advantage of this opportunity to thank Boss Hog and all the staff members for their hard work to keep this site alive. It takes great idealism and loyalty to put so many long hours of hard work to keep things going in an orderly manner.

Thanks for hosting the Hognostications. That was a lot of fun too.

Sooooo, coaxing Joe Gibbs, the most successful coach in Redskin history, and then having his team go to the playoffs 2 times in 3 years was not successful. Dan Snyder took over in 99 and all he has done is throw as much money possible to make this team a winner. To me he is a fans dream because he will spend the money on players. Now I understand that there is a learning curve, and I think that this franchise is on the right track. I mean it could be worse, imagine a guy like peter Angelos running the redskins.

The last three years where the most succesful the Redskins have been since 1991. It seems like people want to lambast the owner for any reason when the new staff we have in place hasnt even played a game, let alone a mini camp.

Snyder took the right step by hiring Gibbs, and hopefully we will have continued success as the owner matures.

We are always so quick to give Snyder credit for as you put “coaxing” Gibbs out of retirement… Really?? Did he put Gibbs thought the “process”? Did Gibbs have any 8 hour interviews; ever spend a night in the “guest house”. Of course not becuase hiring Gibbs is a no-brainers. Yes I reluctantly give him the credit but who among us wouldn’t have hired Gibbs? I fall short of giving him credit for “coaxing”

Please stop with the money!!! If that was the formula for success you are I could coach the team!! Here’s a a novel idea…why not dangle the carrot in front of the players instead of lining their pockets with it?? You say dream I say nightmare I wish he’d spend much less money!

Bob 0119 wrote:

NC43Hog wrote:Free Speech can not be curtailed, no matter how annoying.

Staying on topic in whatever post you are commenting on is a must - don't use threads to vent if it has no bearing on the topic - if you must do that then go to TALKING SMACK.

We are all REAL fans - some are just more pissed off than others right now.

My advice - if the horse isn't moving/breathing it is probably dead and you can stop beating it.

Even if the horse wasn't dead before, the beating this one has taken ensures it ain't coming back.

What!! This horse hasn't even had it's first training camp...it was just born.
If this horse doesn't win many races...it will have quite a life

And their off.........FA overspending takes the lead, followed by ineptness...continuity has fallen way back...oh wait heres comes optimism on the outside...

Snout wrote:Even during the dark years while Spurrier was here and Cerrato was running the front office, the Redskins managed to win a few games.

Even during the Gibbs II Rebuilding when Gibbs brought in the best offensive and defensive coaches in the league, and when the Master had the final say on all front office personnel decisions, the Redskins managed to lose a lot of games.

Sometimes the team was healthy and well-rested, but couldn't manage to get things going -- or when they did manage to get things going, couldn't hold a lead. At other times critical players were hurt -- or dead, and the team came together to play some inspired football.

Add all of this up, and it seems it is hard to predict the perfect formula for success. And even when the Redskins seem to do everything wrong, the end result isn't much different from when they seem to be doing everything right.

Maybe Zorn will be a catalyst and the Redskins will be next year's Cindarella team. Maybe everything will fall apart and fans will tear their hair out and collectively take a lemming-like plunge into the Potomac.

I don't think things are nearly as bad as te Snyder-haters make them out to be.

This post really says allot about where Synder has us fans now...you sound as not only like you expect meritocracy but your happy and looking forward to it??

It's gotten so bad around here that you'll are looking forward to Optimism??