The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I heard Peter King on the radio with Dan Patrick this morning. I found this quote, among a bunch of others, pretty ridiculous.

"There are no slam dunks this year. Nobody is a lock."

Apparently he forgot that Darrell Green was on the ballot. Oh wait, I forgot, he was a life-long Washington Redskin, so he can't be elected to the hall for at least 10 or 12 more years.

Can you believe this comment though? What isn't first-ballot about Green?

Can you believe this comment though? What isn't first-ballot about Green?

Probably the same thing that isn't first ballot about Monk.

Countertrey wrote:

Can you believe this comment though? What isn't first-ballot about Green?

Probably the same thing that isn't first ballot about Monk.

I don't know Green has the things that they bag on Monk for not having:

- The stupid signature play (he has many of them)
- Probowls - 7 vs. 3 for Monk
- was almost always considered one of the top 2 or 3 CB in the NFL for well over half of his 20 years.

Green is more of a slam dunk, lead pipe HoF lock than anyone inducted in the last ten years!

He only has two things going against him and they are huge in the minds of the simpletons that vote, although they will never admit it:
- He's not on TV - you have to become one of "them" to be a lock.
- He's a Redskin - that in itself is enough to disqualify him!

No rolly eyes or smiles! It is so sad that picking a HoF'er is like picking a Prom Queen. They don't have to be the best, they just have to be popular. "It's not who you know, it's who you bl.." Well you know how that saying ends.

That DG is MORE of a slam dunk than Monk, I won't argue with. Doesn't change the FACT that Monk should have been a slam dunk, and that he wasn't selected on his first ballot does not leave me comforted about Green's chances.

The small minds of the selection committee... I think my point stands.

Countertrey wrote:That DG is MORE of a slam dunk than Monk, I won't argue with. Doesn't change the FACT that Monk should have been a slam dunk, and that he wasn't selected on his first ballot does not leave me comforted about Green's chances.

The small minds of the selection committee... I think my point stands.

Agree 100%

If there are no slam dunks then I think Art Monk and Darrell Green should get in as they are the best of this class and the hall has to elect a minimum number of people. I don't think sports writers should be electing HOF members anyways. Players peers should.

Kruncher wrote:If there are no slam dunks then I think Art Monk and Darrell Green should get in as they are the best of this class and the hall has to elect a minimum number of people. I don't think sports writers should be electing HOF members anyways. Players peers should.

There should be more than 30-40 people, maybe 320. Ten from each NFL city. Write in ballot. That way no one else can sway them. And each finalist should have a DVD of their plays and career acheivment that each writer has to watch.

Then they should post how they voted on the HoF web site so they can be held accountable, by the fans


I think a mix of former player/coaches/scouts/ GMs; media; and fans. Would work too.

I think a mix of former player/coaches/scouts/ GMs; media; and fans. Would work too.

No. Players and Coaches only, a body selected by the NFLPA, perhaps consisting of all living HOF inductees plus a group of non-eligible retirees. THEY know who is good enough.

Definitely NO press. NO fans.

Peter King's idiot compatriot, Dr. Z, had this to say:

John of Melbourne, Fla., wonders why I can't find any shutdown corners anymore. Two reasons: 1) The officiating is so irrational, regarding interference calls, that sooner or later a corner playing a tight bump style is going to get flagged, and 2) The reliance on the Cover Two zone has diminished the need for the kind of guy who could play a tight man coverage all game. We're going to see one coming up for Hall of Fame enshrinement Saturday, Darrell Green of the Redskins, and it will break my heart if he's not a slam dunk first ballot selection. He didn't ignore the short stuff, as Champ Bailey does, or play back and allow completions underneath. Every thrown ball was a challenge to him. Those skills have gone the way of the blacksmith and the knight in armor

Even an idiot is right once in awhile.

Countertrey wrote:

I think a mix of former player/coaches/scouts/ GMs; media; and fans. Would work too.

No. Players and Coaches only, a body selected by the NFLPA, perhaps consisting of all living HOF inductees plus a group of non-eligible retirees. THEY know who is good enough.

Definitely NO press. NO fans.

Not current players, though. They're partially responsible for the fiasco that is the ProBowl.

I'd say current HoF members. That's it.

Simple...whether or not they think a player is good enough to join their ranks.

PulpExposure wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

I think a mix of former player/coaches/scouts/ GMs; media; and fans. Would work too.

No. Players and Coaches only, a body selected by the NFLPA, perhaps consisting of all living HOF inductees plus a group of non-eligible retirees. THEY know who is good enough.

Definitely NO press. NO fans.

Not current players, though. They're partially responsible for the fiasco that is the ProBowl.

I'd say current HoF members. That's it.

Simple...whether or not they think a player is good enough to join their ranks.

I agree - Current HOF members. But they have to be in for a set period of time, say 5 year. So they are removed from the game for 10 years at that point. Could you imagine if Irving, Smith, Akeman all start lobbying for Leon Lett to get in?

No fans. Look at the pro bowl and the MLB all star game. God Deon Sanders made the pro bowl, one year, and he missed the first 8 or so games of the season.

You give owners and one GM/Executive per team a vote.

There should be no question what-so-ever that Darrell Green is a no-brainer fisrt-ballot hall of famer. I could go on and on about the reasons of which most people on this board are very familiar with. But the things that really standout for me are the facts that he defined his position in the 80's and he played at a high level for a very long period of time. In addition, he has two signature plays that stand above the rest in my opinion.

a) chasing down Dickerson in the 86 wild card game.
b) "the" punt return in Chicago on that cold day in January 1988.



As for Monk...don't even get me started. I know it's probably been discussed ad-nauseum on this board...but when Irvin got the call instead of Monk I honestly felt like vomiting. WHAT A JOKE!

But you know what? I think the Pro Football Hall of Fame is a joke. How else to explain the fact that Jerry Kramer is not in?? Living in Idaho, this is a sore-spot for many up here. The guy was one of the key players on those great Packer teams....threw the most famous block in history and has never even got a sniff? Meanwhile, Mike Munchak got in in 2001? Although a very solid player....how could Munchak get in at guard in front of Kramer???

Makes no freakin' sense.

Let's not forget Andre Reed's signature play: slamming his helmet on the turf near the end of the first half of SB 26, thereby costing the Bills a chance to try a FG. True, there are some who mix fantasy football with the real game, and think that Reed and Cris Carter would start ahead of Art Monk.

However, neither were remarkable receivers...probably would have competed with Rickie Sanders for number 3 receiver on the Redskins.

Of the other non-Redskin candidates, Richard Dent surely deserved more votes. Think 1985 Bears, and what players nearly frightened opponents off the field? Dent was one.

The rest? Not impressive.

Now the question, the obvious question, becomes "where are the Hogs?" Who is this Zimmerman? Would Gibbs and Bugel have traded either Joe Jacoby or Mark May for this guy?

Another question: while everyone knows that the Redskins won three SB's in a dozen years with three different QBs and three different starting RBs, who was the one and only center? Who snapped to all three QB's? Who were the tackles and guards who opened the holes for Timmy Smith? Who made up the OL that beat down Bruce Smith in SB 26? Did John Riggins gain all those yards alone?

Hogs have to be next.

*

And, for a "thought experiment", what would the Redskins have been like the last few years with a DE like Charles Mann?

Go through the players on the old Gibbs teams. Imagine the team without a particular player. Then you can get a sense of how important they were.

hogproud wrote:a) chasing down Dickerson in the 86 wild card game.
b) "the" punt return in Chicago on that cold day in January 1988.

And I'll give you c) chasing down Dorsett in his NFL debut on MNF.

Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

RedskinsFreak wrote:

hogproud wrote:a) chasing down Dickerson in the 86 wild card game.
b) "the" punt return in Chicago on that cold day in January 1988.

And I'll give you c) chasing down Dorsett in his NFL debut on MNF.

... My personal favorite.

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

Those two guys dont get any love from me. They were part of the reasons he wasnt in already. So it is long overdue. I still do not care for there opinions.

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

And both also voted the completely unworthy Michael Irvin on the first ballot, BEFORE Monk. Monk is where he belongs, now, but he endured an awful lot of insults before arriving. No love for King and Z-dung. It will take a while.

Countertrey wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

And both also voted the completely unworthy Michael Irvin on the first ballot, BEFORE Monk. Monk is where he belongs, now, but he endured an awful lot of insults before arriving. No love for King and Z-dung. It will take a while.

I didn't have as much of a problem w/the push off artist as I did w/Swann and Stallworth. Lofton deserved to be in. Irvin deserved to be in (but to a lesser degree than Monk). Swann and Stallworth simply didn't deserve the recognition.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

And both also voted the completely unworthy Michael Irvin on the first ballot, BEFORE Monk. Monk is where he belongs, now, but he endured an awful lot of insults before arriving. No love for King and Z-dung. It will take a while.

I didn't have as much of a problem w/the push off artist as I did w/Swann and Stallworth. Lofton deserved to be in. Irvin deserved to be in (but to a lesser degree than Monk). Swann and Stallworth simply didn't deserve the recognition.

The problem with letting your heart have control of the keyboard, is that it doesn't always do a good job of editing

My comment about Irvins "unworthiness" related to his induction on the first ballot. He absolutely belongs in the hall. He was never worthy of going in ahead of Monk. And, I concur about Swann and Stallworth. Both had numerous comparable contemporaries who were never considered for the hall.

Countertrey wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

And both also voted the completely unworthy Michael Irvin on the first ballot, BEFORE Monk. Monk is where he belongs, now, but he endured an awful lot of insults before arriving. No love for King and Z-dung. It will take a while.

I didn't have as much of a problem w/the push off artist as I did w/Swann and Stallworth. Lofton deserved to be in. Irvin deserved to be in (but to a lesser degree than Monk). Swann and Stallworth simply didn't deserve the recognition.

The problem with letting your heart have control of the keyboard, is that it doesn't always do a good job of editing

My comment about Irvins "unworthiness" related to his induction on the first ballot. He absolutely belongs in the hall. He was never worthy of going in ahead of Monk. And, I concur about Swann and Stallworth. Both had numerous comparable contemporaries who were never considered for the hall.

Here's the thing for me. Monk is in now, and DG got in first ballot.

We have no room to complain. AND if it took the SIdiots to help get both of them in, then we should be grateful. Seriously.

Forgive if you wish. I'll admit that I am bitter about this. 8 years. Michael (Captain push off) Irvin in on the first ballot with comparable stats, and despite incessantly cheating to get "separation" (to asy nothing of his other "character" blemishes). Nothing that has happened this year has served to moderate my cynicism about the process. Z-dung freely suggests that he voted to get Monk's million fan posse and contemporary peers off his back. He threw us a bone. The arrogance.

You appear to be of the opinion that "we got what we want... we should just take it, and shut up." Maybe. The flaw in the system remains. Someone else will get screwed by the self-important, HOF selectors of the sporting press. There remain no Hogs in the HOF, though there are a number of similarly capable contemporaries in. Russ Grimm, anyone? Hey, Z-boy... throw us another bone.

Oh, you Redskins fans... you're never satisfied.

It needs to be corrected.

Oh, you Redskins fans... you're never satisfied.

Not until:

- Larry Brown

- at least two or three Hogs

are elected to the HoF.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Who cares?

He has his opinion. Which for me goes in one ear out the other. He and the other nay sayers are just idiots.

We have Art and Darrell in now. They can say all they want as far as I am concerned. HAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOO! Art is finally in man.

According to the Washington Post, both Dr. Z and Peter King voted for Art Monk this time.

And both also voted the completely unworthy Michael Irvin on the first ballot, BEFORE Monk. Monk is where he belongs, now, but he endured an awful lot of insults before arriving. No love for King and Z-dung. It will take a while.

I didn't have as much of a problem w/the push off artist as I did w/Swann and Stallworth. Lofton deserved to be in. Irvin deserved to be in (but to a lesser degree than Monk). Swann and Stallworth simply didn't deserve the recognition.

Lynn Swann and Stallworth?

Those two had incredible big time catches in big situations.

I feel they deserve everything they have gotten.

I also feel that what they did is almost exactly like what Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders did in SuperBowls. So I also feel that Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders belong in the hall.