The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Just to get myself off this coaching fiascoe going down right now just want to get your guys take for the offseason moves. I think in my opnion I would cut Daniels, Griffin, and Jansen keep Springs. Then, I doubt we would have enough money for it but I would like to go after Haynesworth draft a DE in the first round a 6'3+ WR either in the second round or through FA. I think our D-Line would go from mediocre to sick if we Had Haynesworth, Carter, rotate in Montgomery and Gholston, and then draft that best DE at our draft spot. I think then we could play the same defense we did this year with that umbrella look with even more effectiveness...What are yall's dream realistic offseason moves?

I think our D-Line would go from mediocre to sick if we Had Haynesworth

[sarcasm]Yes! I've always thought it would be great if we had a face-stomping punk in the middle of our line... Yup... there certainly is something "sick" about that...[/sarcasm]

Haynesworth would be a nice addition to the d-line. I believe that B. Johnson from AZ could be a low cost answer to our big WR issue. He is productive when thrown to. D. Foxworth is a low cost young DB that plays for Denver behind champ and bly. He's soild but, is a RFA. Also he played for the Terps and he is from b-more. our first pick should be DE from USC after that our picks should be a big OG in the 2nd. A blocking TE or OG the 3rd.

Welcome to the board. I like the way that you think, but I wonder if B. Johnson would really be that productive. He's started 8 games each of the last two years and his stats are mediocre with only 6 TD's in that time. Here he would be behind Moss and El. But who knows? He wouldn't cost much.

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34070


14 Players signed, some are:

CB Byron Westbrook
WR Billy McMullen
RB Marcus Mason
CB John Eubanks
RB Eric Shelton
WR Burt Toler

I could see Mason, Westbrook, and McMullen making impacts on the team next year. Mason could easily step in and be the next Rock. McMullen had some success with the Eagles and the Vikings. Eubanks is decent and Toler and Shelton are just Training Camp Meat.

PMG12569 wrote:Just to get myself off this coaching fiascoe going down right now just want to get your guys take for the offseason moves. I think in my opnion I would cut Daniels, Griffin, and Jansen keep Springs. Then, I doubt we would have enough money for it but I would like to go after Haynesworth draft a DE in the first round a 6'3+ WR either in the second round or through FA. I think our D-Line would go from mediocre to sick if we Had Haynesworth, Carter, rotate in Montgomery and Gholston, and then draft that best DE at our draft spot. I think then we could play the same defense we did this year with that umbrella look with even more effectiveness...What are yall's dream realistic offseason moves?

I like your thinking, except I'm not sure on Jansen. Don't really know the details of his salary cap, etc. I have no problem with Daniels getting cut. As for Griffin, he hasn't been the same as before but if we cut him we need to add another starter. Starting Golston and Montgomery is a disaster. Montgomery has played well but Golston is a bench player at best. The importance of the dline has been ignored in DC for FAR too long. Just look at the Giants. Good dline, mediocre everywhere else on defense but they are in the Super Bowl. If I had one complaint about GW as a DC it is that he underestimates the importance of the dline. That's why I was hoping that we might get Rex Ryan. Looking at the teams did well in the playoffs, just about every single one had a good defensive line, ranked high in the NFL in sack totals, and was able to pressure the qb without having to blitz.

As for adding a defensive end, both Harvey and Campbell should be available when we draft. I would take Campbell or Limas Sweed (wr, Texas). I know that we might be able to address wr somewhere else, but we need a starting receiver and it would be hard to pass on a guy like Sweed with the 21st pick.

ldbrown wrote:Haynesworth would be a nice addition to the d-line.

For the 12 games he'll play (at most) each year.

He's averaged playing in 12 games per year for his career; only season he's played 16 games was his rookie season.

I can't imagine as he ages he'll get more durable, either.

PulpExposure wrote:

ldbrown wrote:Haynesworth would be a nice addition to the d-line.

For the 12 games he'll play (at most) each year.

He's averaged playing in 12 games per year for his career; only season he's played 16 games was his rookie season.

I can't imagine as he ages he'll get more durable, either.

Not disagreeing with you, but I wonder how many defensive tackles there are out there that play 16 games every season. Seems like a position where you would have guys getting banged up a decent amount. Griffin has had injury problems during his tenure as well.

CanesSkins26 wrote:[Not disagreeing with you, but I wonder how many defensive tackles there are out there that play 16 games every season. Seems like a position where you would have guys getting banged up a decent amount. Griffin has had injury problems during his tenure as well.

You made me curious, so I did some preliminary digging.

I know it seems as if Griff has, but he's only fully missed 10 games in his 8 years. Yeah, you do see some DTs miss games, like Tommie Harris of the Bears and Shaun Rogers of Detroit. But many DTs don't.

As a comparison, Haynesworth has missed 20 games in 6 seasons. If you compare him to highly drafted DTs around the same age, you'll see he's very high. Kevin Williams of the Vikings has missed 2 games in his 5 years in the league. Ty Warren of the Pats has missed 1 game in 5 seasons. John Henderson has missed 1 game in 6 seasons. Darnell Docket hasn't missed a game in 5 seasons. Even with missing half the season this year, Marcus Stroud has still only missed 12 games in 7 years.

Just since it's pretty impressive, Warren Sapp has missed 10 games in his 13 years (and 6 of those were in 2005).

PulpExposure wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:[Not disagreeing with you, but I wonder how many defensive tackles there are out there that play 16 games every season. Seems like a position where you would have guys getting banged up a decent amount. Griffin has had injury problems during his tenure as well.

You made me curious, so I did some preliminary digging.

I know it seems as if Griff has, but he's only fully missed 10 games in his 8 years. Yeah, you do see some DTs miss games, like Tommie Harris of the Bears and Shaun Rogers of Detroit. But many DTs don't.

As a comparison, Haynesworth has missed 20 games in 6 seasons. If you compare him to highly drafted DTs around the same age, you'll see he's very high. Kevin Williams of the Vikings has missed 2 games in his 5 years in the league. Ty Warren of the Pats has missed 1 game in 5 seasons. John Henderson has missed 1 game in 6 seasons. Darnell Docket hasn't missed a game in 5 seasons. Even with missing half the season this year, Marcus Stroud has still only missed 12 games in 7 years.

Just since it's pretty impressive, Warren Sapp has missed 10 games in his 13 years (and 6 of those were in 2005).

Thanks for digging up the info. Likewise, Vicne Wilfork has played all 16 games in 3 of his 4 seasons. I think that Heynesworth is eligible to be franchised as well so I doubt that we even have a chance at getting him. I just think that we need to add 2 starters (1 DE, 1 DT) to the defensive line.

Here's a list of some of the free agent defensive linemen available this offseason. Corey Williams (DT) from the Packers would be a good player to go after. Big, disruptive guy that plays in the middle (7 sacks in each of 2006 and 2007).

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDL.html

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DL&y=2008

I just like Haynesworth because hes worth being double teamed...if you can get one D lineman to get double teamed that just makes everything easier for the rest of the line...theres not to many of the DT's worth that attention Pat Williams on Minn., maybe V. Wilfork, and I know I'm missing people that some people will add but still I think that Andre, a double team on Haynesworth, and a 1st round DE..helps our team out drastically and it helps the secondary as well more pressure means less time for those young DB's to have to cover the beasts of the East

CanesSkins26 wrote:

PMG12569 wrote:Just to get myself off this coaching fiascoe going down right now just want to get your guys take for the offseason moves. I think in my opnion I would cut Daniels, Griffin, and Jansen keep Springs. Then, I doubt we would have enough money for it but I would like to go after Haynesworth draft a DE in the first round a 6'3+ WR either in the second round or through FA. I think our D-Line would go from mediocre to sick if we Had Haynesworth, Carter, rotate in Montgomery and Gholston, and then draft that best DE at our draft spot. I think then we could play the same defense we did this year with that umbrella look with even more effectiveness...What are yall's dream realistic offseason moves?

I like your thinking, except I'm not sure on Jansen. Don't really know the details of his salary cap, etc. I have no problem with Daniels getting cut. As for Griffin, he hasn't been the same as before but if we cut him we need to add another starter. Starting Golston and Montgomery is a disaster. Montgomery has played well but Golston is a bench player at best. The importance of the dline has been ignored in DC for FAR too long. Just look at the Giants. Good dline, mediocre everywhere else on defense but they are in the Super Bowl. If I had one complaint about GW as a DC it is that he underestimates the importance of the dline. That's why I was hoping that we might get Rex Ryan. Looking at the teams did well in the playoffs, just about every single one had a good defensive line, ranked high in the NFL in sack totals, and was able to pressure the qb without having to blitz.

As for adding a defensive end, both Harvey and Campbell should be available when we draft. I would take Campbell or Limas Sweed (wr, Texas). I know that we might be able to address wr somewhere else, but we need a starting receiver and it would be hard to pass on a guy like Sweed with the 21st pick.

Golston played well in '06 (I think he was our best new player that year). He gained a lot of weight in the off season. Maybe he just needs to slim down a little.

I don't know what the team will look like next season.

If we have a big head coaching shakeup, and we need Springs, Griffin and others to re-structure we may have a very different looking (and less effective) defense. Add that to questions about Jason Campbell, a lack of strong wide receivers and an aging line, we may be a lot worse off next season.

Personally I think that Griffin, Springs and Daniels are gone.

That makes Smoot and Rogers our best corners, backed by Landry and a hole at FS. As for linebackers, we have a very good corps, but little depth at the position and Fletcher is older and Washington has been sapped by injuries. As for the defensive line, we have a hole at one end position, two very young defensive tackles (only one of whom, Montgomery, who seems like a legit starter.) and a star in Andre Carter.

On offense Campbell was not that effective last season even before the injury. He still has plenty of time to develop, but he didn't show that much improvement over his rookie season. He completed a higher percentage of passes, but his QB rating was only one point higher, most likely due to the fact that he threw 11 interceptions to 12 touchdowns.

He has ey who is a great weapon, and very young, and Moss who is a good player, but was unable to put up very strong numbers this season (and who was injured.) ARE is good, but shouldn't really be a #2 option and no one else at WR for sure next season.

Portis is still one of the game's best rushers, but after 6 seasons, his prime years have to be running out and we can't keep wasting his best seasons.

The offensive line has two all-pro quality tackles and a great guard (they're all getting up there in years, but that may just mean added experience) also, I think Rabach is vastly underrated. He's a very good center.

So it looks like our run game will still be solid (although Sellers is getting up there in years too) but our passing game needs some new life injected into it.

The defense could go either way depending on how the offseason works out.

It could be a rebuilding year.

It could be a rebuilding year.

Change the staff, and it's surely a rebuilding year and years. Note the plural. Note the implied throwing away a team that has been rebuilt into a playoff team, a team that made this playoffs with half the OL out, with WR's in and out, with Campbell still learning the NFL and the Saunders offense, with C Rogers out, with Washington hurt off and on, without Sean Taylor.

A team with backbone.

Remove the backbone, and then????

What has been built? Nothing really. We backed into the playoffs and have an old veteran team.

We need to finally START building.

welch wrote:

It could be a rebuilding year.

Change the staff, and it's surely a rebuilding year and years.

See, I'm having problems with this "if you change things, it's the end of the world" meme I've seen on here.

Just in our division, that's been shown to not be true this year.

Spagnuolo completely changed the defense of the Giants, and they ended up playing fantastic over the course of the year; they became the strength of the team, going from 25th in yards allowed last year to 7th in yards allowed this year. Wade Phillips came in to the Cowboys, and while maintaining Parcells' 3-4 defense, changed it from a read/react to an attacking style defense, and the defense went from 13th in yards allowed and 15th in points allowed to 9th in both rankings. Likewise, Jason Garrett came in, and put in a brand new offense for the Cowboys, and they did better on offense than last year (4th in points scored, 5th in yards, to 2nd in points scored, 3rd in yards).

Gregg Williams replaced George Edwards in 2004, and the defense...a completely different system, went from 25th in yards allowed to 3rd in yards allowed.

Just because you change systems doesn't automatically mean the sky is falling.

ldbrown wrote:Haynesworth would be a nice addition to the d-line. I believe that B. Johnson from AZ could be a low cost answer to our big WR issue. He is productive when thrown to. D. Foxworth is a low cost young DB that plays for Denver behind champ and bly. He's soild but, is a RFA. Also he played for the Terps and he is from b-more. our first pick should be DE from USC after that our picks should be a big OG in the 2nd. A blocking TE or OG the 3rd.

I think a blocking TE would be a poor draft choice. There are plenty of blocking TE's our there we can get for dimes. Besides, a blocking TE would encourage us to run with the football, which we can't do until we re-build our OL. We'll be a pass first O for the next few years, in spite of resident fantasies about resurgent hogs, which has already cost us so many wins. We need OL's and a DE in the first three rounds as well as a FA or two, one CB and one first class OL. We also we need to leave Saunders and Collings and our receivers in place. That way, we win the division next year.

crazyhorse1 wrote: Besides, a blocking TE would encourage us to run with the football, which we can't do until we re-build our OL. We'll be a pass first O for the next few years, in spite of resident fantasies about resurgent hogs, which has already cost us so many wins.

12th in Rushing in the NFL, despite missing our RG and RT for the season?

Last year, with the entire OL intact, we were 3rd in rushing.

How can you say that?

PulpExposure wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote: Besides, a blocking TE would encourage us to run with the football, which we can't do until we re-build our OL. We'll be a pass first O for the next few years, in spite of resident fantasies about resurgent hogs, which has already cost us so many wins.

12th in Rushing in the NFL, despite missing our RG and RT for the season?

Last year, with the entire OL intact, we were 3rd in rushing.

How can you say that?

The actual yardage numbers are somewhat misleading. We were 12th in yards per game, but among rushers that attempted at least 100 carries, Portis ranked 33rd in yards per carry. CP also led the entire NFL in carries with 325. So yes we had lots of yards, but I don't really think that our running game was nearly as effective as the yards per game indicate. Short yardage and red zone have been trouble for us the past few years and that falls squarely on the offensive line.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote: Besides, a blocking TE would encourage us to run with the football, which we can't do until we re-build our OL. We'll be a pass first O for the next few years, in spite of resident fantasies about resurgent hogs, which has already cost us so many wins.

12th in Rushing in the NFL, despite missing our RG and RT for the season?

Last year, with the entire OL intact, we were 3rd in rushing.

How can you say that?

The actual yardage numbers are somewhat misleading. We were 12th in yards per game, but among rushers that attempted at least 100 carries, Portis ranked 33rd in yards per carry. CP also led the entire NFL in carries with 325. So yes we had lots of yards, but I don't really think that our running game was nearly as effective as the yards per game indicate. Short yardage and red zone have been trouble for us the past few years and that falls squarely on the offensive line.

Well, it wasn't the best in the world last year (12th after all), but we were missing our RT and RG. That hurts.

Also the playcalling down by the endzone was laughably bad some times. Running an OT sweep on 3rd AND 4th downs against the Giants? Please. Cram it up the middle for a yard.

But really, my point was that crazyhorse1 was posting that we can't run the ball until we rebuild the line that we'll have to be a passing team in the future.

That's just silly. We weren't the best rushing team last year, but we DID run the ball better than average. And that's even more impressive considering probably our two best run blockers were out all year.

PulpExposure wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote: Besides, a blocking TE would encourage us to run with the football, which we can't do until we re-build our OL. We'll be a pass first O for the next few years, in spite of resident fantasies about resurgent hogs, which has already cost us so many wins.

12th in Rushing in the NFL, despite missing our RG and RT for the season?

Last year, with the entire OL intact, we were 3rd in rushing.

How can you say that?

The actual yardage numbers are somewhat misleading. We were 12th in yards per game, but among rushers that attempted at least 100 carries, Portis ranked 33rd in yards per carry. CP also led the entire NFL in carries with 325. So yes we had lots of yards, but I don't really think that our running game was nearly as effective as the yards per game indicate. Short yardage and red zone have been trouble for us the past few years and that falls squarely on the offensive line.

Well, it wasn't the best in the world last year (12th after all), but we were missing our RT and RG. That hurts.

Also the playcalling down by the endzone was laughably bad some times. Running an OT sweep on 3rd AND 4th downs against the Giants? Please. Cram it up the middle for a yard.

But really, my point was that crazyhorse1 was posting that we can't run the ball until we rebuild the line that we'll have to be a passing team in the future.

That's just silly. We weren't the best rushing team last year, but we DID run the ball better than average. And that's even more impressive considering probably our two best run blockers were out all year.

Jansen's nearly done and won't help much, healthy or not. Randy might not be the same guy either. Samuels may be pro bowl, but he's no shutdown tackle and has never been a great run blocking tackle. Also, negative is the fact that Pete had to dig down to get in shape this past year.

We're at least two years away from being a run first-team. Being average in the running game doesn't cut it if its your first foot forward.

It means you end up about 6-10.

Zorn will want to throw and about that he'll be right. At any rate, I hope he focuses on the OL in the draft. I don't ever again want to see a Skin OL flattened like it was in Seattle.

An OG is a must this year. Thomas will be fine and the skins could wait to find his replacment. Our redzone offense I feel was off because JC don't go through his reads fast, didn't release the ball fast enough, and too many of his targets are small. Zorn may help with those isssues.

ldbrown wrote:An OG is a must this year. Thomas will be fine and the skins could wait to find his replacment. Our redzone offense I feel was off because JC don't go through his reads fast, didn't release the ball fast enough, and too many of his targets are small. Zorn may help with those isssues.

I can't find the number anywhere, but I remember during a game they posted JC's red zone qb rating and it was pretty good. I think that our red zone troubles have more to do with bad playcalling (too much jumbo) and a lack of a red zone target other than ey.

We need to rebuild our line, but our line can hold until we start drafting. CP is going to come upon a rapid decline due to his carries/year, Just look at Larry Johnson. I think the only thing we really need this year is QUALITY depth at o-line(I like what Kendal did this year, since we ran to the left probbly 60-80% of the time), a fierce DE to replace Daniels OR a killer DT(not Haynesworth for the love of God, he's trouble!!) We need to draft/FA a starting corner and keep Springs 1 more year. He did great for us in '07. Remember we really have a hole where Rocky used to be; Godfrey's probably not going to be able to start a whole year. Blades can step up, but that won't leave us with much depth at LB.

In summary, we need to start with our o-line(1 good one every year would make me happy, like Heyer surprised me), draft a corner, draft a LB (Rocky's short shelf life due to knees and Fletcher's not going to last but a few more years IMO), draft a DE/DT. '09/'10 Draft is the year for a running back.

numbers are good but from what I saw the numbers could have been better. I agree that playcalling was bad at times. Common sense would have you believe that Zorn will build off of JC strong points as QB and not so much the Strong ponits of the scheme being that he was a QB him-self and understands what JC seeing correct?