The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I for one am exited that we have a up and coming coach waiting in the wings being coached up by the great gibbs. It could kind of be like the Brunell situation, where his veteran experience helped Campbel to learn the Position, whereas Williams has been with Gibbs for 4 years.


We already know Williams can coach defense, and he can motivate his players. I think in the past he didn't know how to handle the players but learning under Gibbs will make him much more prudent. I mean what other option do we have? We need to have continuity after Gibbs leaves. You can say whatever you want about Gibbs, but he gave us something we haven't had in 12 years; stablility. It is proven time and time again that this is the key to winning(see colts, patriots). We already have established our franchise quarterback(something we haven't had in 12 years as well). This is a new franchise under Gibbs, winning is not established overnight(see Snyder).

truskinsfan18 wrote:I for one am exited that we have a up and coming coach waiting in the wings being coached up by the great gibbs. It could kind of be like the Brunell situation, where his veteran experience helped Campbel to learn the Position, whereas Williams has been with Gibbs for 4 years.


We already know Williams can coach defense, and he can motivate his players. I think in the past he didn't know how to handle the players but learning under Gibbs will make him much more prudent. I mean what other option do we have? We need to have continuity after Gibbs leaves. You can say whatever you want about Gibbs, but he gave us something we haven't had in 12 years; stablility. It is proven time and time again that this is the key to winning(see colts, patriots). We already have established our franchise quarterback(something we haven't had in 12 years as well). This is a new franchise under Gibbs, winning is not established overnight(see Snyder).

I like the idea of stability, but I'm not to sure about Williams. I think I would rather have instabilty and hire Bill Cower. He's been there done that. All Williams has done is failed as a head coach.

He was no worse than Bill Belichek in Cleveland.

I want Gibbs to sign and stay for 3 or more; but when it is time for Joe to move upstairs I will be comfortable with Gregg taking the reigns and give him at least 3 years to get it going.

JansenFan wrote:He was no worse than Bill Belichek in Cleveland.

Um yea he was. Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns, including an 11-5 season in 1994 and a trip to the playoffs. Williams, on the other hand, had a 17-31 record with the Bills and his best season the team was 8-8. Neither was great but Belichick at least showed signs of promise, while Williams' tenure in Buffalo was pretty much a disaster. To me he just doesn't seem like a very good candidate to succeed Gibbs. People complain about Gibbs being too conservative, but go back and read about the Bills' offense when Williams was there. They were so conservative that they make our offense look high powered and aggressive.

Hasn't there been rumors of Williams being interested in the WVU job? The Mountaineer fans at work say they've seen it, but I haven't.

I don't want to see Williams as our head coach. Williams is a defensive coordinator not a head coach

When highly rated offensive or defensive coordinators become head coaches, they find a winning formula with their first opportunity or they never find it at all.

Sure there may be a few exceptions, a few guys who failed with their first chance but then were wildly successful with their second or third. But that type of success is rare.

I do not want Williams to become our next head coach. If he becomes our next coach I will support him and cheer him on, but I hope it never comes to that.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

JansenFan wrote:He was no worse than Bill Belichek in Cleveland.

Um yea he was. Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns, including an 11-5 season in 1994 and a trip to the playoffs. Williams, on the other hand, had a 17-31 record with the Bills and his best season the team was 8-8. Neither was great but Belichick at least showed signs of promise, while Williams' tenure in Buffalo was pretty much a disaster. To me he just doesn't seem like a very good candidate to succeed Gibbs. People complain about Gibbs being too conservative, but go back and read about the Bills' offense when Williams was there. They were so conservative that they make our offense look high powered and aggressive.

Are you suggesting that Williams ran the offense in Buffalo?

What was the Bills defense like when he was there? Did the defense suck too?

Most NFL coaches WERE coordinators before they became head coaches. Belichick is a defensive coach, for example, as is Wade Phillips.

Andy Reid and Norv Turner are offensive coaches. No coach wears both hats.

Williams' defense was pretty good while he was HC at Buffalo. They had no offense. And to suggest a coach will never succeed anywhere because of one stint with a poor team that had a lack of talent is foolish and ignorant.

How did Jimmy Johnson do with the Dolphins after winning a National Championship at the U and a Super Bowl in Dallas? The point is, it doesn't matter how great of a coach you are if you don't have the talent in the locker room to execute your system on the field. This was the case with Johnson in Miami and was the case with Williams in Buffalo.

Williams record and resume for fielding great defenses speaks for itself, and not one of you fools can suggest otherwise. We have a good offensive coach and players. There is no evidence, anywhere, that suggests Williams can't succeed with those components.

But please, let's bring in new coaches and new systems... again. Great idea.

I think some of you have conveniently forgotten that Gibbs and Williams inherited a Steve Spurrier team. With 2 games left in the regular season, we still have a chance to make the playoffs. That would be 2 playoff appearances in 4 years for Gibbs and staff, after taking over a team left by Spurrier. But I guess that ain't good enough for some of you.

And by the way, Bill Cohwer is such the offensive genius and mastermind.

That's a lot of rolling eyes

P.S. I don't think Spurrier's tenure is relevant any longer

jeremyroyce wrote:I don't want to see Williams as our head coach. Williams is a defensive coordinator not a head coach

I agree- Greg wasnt real succesfull with Buffalo and i know its a different situation here in washington but i dont think he is the best option. There were comments earlier in the thread about how he motivates the players but noone motivates like Bill Cowher.

I'm hoping that we do not make too many changes here.

2008 will most likely be Joe's last year as HC - at that time (end of next year) we will have a better idea of whether Gibbs will stay with the Skins (not as HC) and what progress if any has been made towards getting a GM. This could be important as if Williams is going to be given the opportunity to be the HC the GM should be someone that is either involved with that (like being here soon!) or someone that Williams is involved with bringing in here.

IMO we need a GM but we also need to have a front office group that works together well with the coach.


I think Williams will be a good coach for our team - I'd rather give him the opportunity than Cowher - I'd rather get Russ Grimm if Williams is not the HC - Williams and Grimm offer better prospects for being team oriented coaches than Cowher. Cowher is a little too much like Parcells for me. They like to think the reason for the team's success is more them than the team.

What Parcells just did to Blank and the Falcons is rude and he has done the same thing before - what a great example he is .... NOT

Fios wrote:That's a lot of rolling eyes

P.S. I don't think Spurrier's tenure is relevant any longer

The only relevance from Spurrier's tenure was the team he left for Gibbs and Williams. So from that context, I think it is relevant. Gibbs and Williams took a horrible team and turned it into a playoff team in their 2nd year. That holds quite a bit of weight, especially in a thread like this. Without looking it up, can anyone name the defensive coordinator before Williams?

My issue is this... one of the biggest criticisms this team has faced from the media and the fans, since Snyder bought the team, is the turnover of coaches and schemes and a severe lack of continuity. That was one of LaVar's biggest complaints, and rightfully so. (I know, I know... LaVar's no longer relevant either) At this point, we 'may' have a team, under Gibbs and Williams, that has made the playoffs twice in four years.

So after all the criticisms regarding the coaching turn over in Washington, and proof positive that endless turnover hasn't worked, some fans want to do it again and think that's the solution. I strongly disagree.

How many years in Pittsburgh did it take Bill Cowher to win a Super Bowl?

SkinsFreak wrote:

Fios wrote:That's a lot of rolling eyes

P.S. I don't think Spurrier's tenure is relevant any longer

The only relevance from Spurrier's tenure was the team he left for Gibbs and Williams. So from that context, I think it is relevant. Gibbs and Williams took a horrible team and turned it into a playoff team in their 2nd year. That holds quite a bit of weight, especially in a thread like this. Without looking it up, can anyone name the defensive coordinator before Williams?

My issue is this... one of the biggest criticisms this team has faced from the media and the fans, since Snyder bought the team, is the turnover of coaches and schemes and a severe lack of continuity. That was one of LaVar's biggest complaints, and rightfully so. (I know, I know... LaVar's no longer relevant either) At this point, we 'may' have a team, under Gibbs and Williams, that has made the playoffs twice in four years.

So after all the criticisms regarding the coaching turn over in Washington, and proof positive that endless turnover hasn't worked, some fans want to do it again and think that's the solution. I strongly disagree.

How many years in Pittsburgh did it take Bill Cowher to win a Super Bowl?

Theres gonna have to be an obvious coaching turnover after gibbs is done and no matter who the new coach is (even if its williams) there will be changes to different things. Williams has head coaching expieriance and Gibbs is not his mentor so he's not gona do things the same as Gibbs. If we are going to make a change- it might as well be to the best coach available to run this team succesfully and thats Bill Cowher.

SkinsFreak wrote:Are you suggesting that Williams ran the offense in Buffalo?

What was the Bills defense like when he was there? Did the defense suck too?

But please, let's bring in new coaches and new systems... again. Great idea.

Weren't you the one who posted in another thread that Gibbs is a great leader with great coordinators? That we need a great leader with great coordinators to run a team?

Williams has proven that he is not even a good leader as a head coach. Maybe that's changed, but if you were satisfied with a great coordinator as a head coach, why did we get rid of Norv Turner?

SkinsFreak wrote:I think some of you have conveniently forgotten that Gibbs and Williams inherited a Steve Spurrier team. With 2 games left in the regular season, we still have a chance to make the playoffs. That would be 2 playoff appearances in 4 years for Gibbs and staff, after taking over a team left by Spurrier. But I guess that ain't good enough for some of you.

You're getting off the subject with Gibbs' success the second time around. We're talking about the next head coach.

SkinsFreak wrote:And by the way, Bill Cohwer is such the offensive genius and mastermind.

Again, he was a great leader. A head coach is the face of the team. The players take on the identity of the head coach. That's why Gibbs is so good. His players go out and make an honest days work, they work their butt off, and they continue fighting. That's why Turner was/is not. He runs a country club. Look at the Chargers. Same team different results.

Coordinators call the game... Not true with Gibbs in the last couple years. He's putting in his $.02 at bad times. Head coaches lead in today's ball.

Two more years, two more years. When the sad day comes Gibbs does hang it up for real then I'm all for strongly considering Williams. I'd consider him the default choice unless a clearly superior candidate emerges. But I'm not crossing that bridge until we see the river and right now Gibbs is happily the guy.

Something that is being over-looked is that when Williams was in Buffalo, the players revolted against him. I am not to keen on Cowher coming to the Redskins. Cowher won 1 Super Bowl with Pittsburg and immediately left. Over the previous years, Cowher fielded good teams but not Super Bowl caliber teams. I am not sold on Williams but would be willing to see him get a chance. For my money, I would rather see Russ Grimm as the HC of the Redskins.

I don't want Cower as our HC......... Let's keep everyone on Board.

Um, I don't want Cowher as the Redskins head coach but to describe him as a guy who won a Super Bowl and "immediately left" isn't really accurate. Remember, the teams he fielded previously had QBs like Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell. The Steelers went to the playoffs on NINE different occasions under Cowher, I'd gladly take that kind of record. Happily.

aswas71788 wrote:Something that is being over-looked is that when Williams was in Buffalo, the players revolted against him. .

So let's let him take the team over. I'd love to add a revolution on top of the 15 years of agony.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Two more years, two more years. When the sad day comes Gibbs does hang it up for real then I'm all for strongly considering Williams. I'd consider him the default choice unless a clearly superior candidate emerges. But I'm not crossing that bridge until we see the river and right now Gibbs is happily the guy.

Agreed. Let's take a look at what our situation is when we get there. Heck, Williams may be out of here after this year to another team.

If it's between Saunders and GW, I'd opt for stability on th offensive side of the ball. Especially with a young QB and all the progress he made in one year. I know Saunders probably doesn't come accross as the head coach type, but I'd be willing to give him a shot over Williams...

I'm sure that if GW was named HC, Saunders would stay. That would provide stability to everyone......

I see Danny Smith getting pissed and leaving though.

chiefhog44 wrote:Coordinators call the game... Not true with Gibbs in the last couple years. He's putting in his $.02 at bad times. Head coaches lead in today's ball.

<snip>

-but if you were satisfied with a great coordinator as a head coach-

If I understand you correctly, and I'm not 100% confident that I do, are you saying head coaches don't call the games, only coordinators do?

Offensively speaking, who then calls the plays in towns like: Philly, Minnesota, Tampa, Miami, San Diego, Seattle, Baltimore, Denver or New Orleans?

Assasin atm wrote:Theres gonna have to be an obvious coaching turnover after gibbs is done and no matter who the new coach is (even if its williams) there will be changes to different things. Williams has head coaching expieriance and Gibbs is not his mentor so he's not gona do things the same as Gibbs. If we are going to make a change- it might as well be to the best coach available to run this team succesfully and thats Bill Cowher.

Obvious coaching turnover? If Gibbs takes on a role in the front office and Williams / Saunders becomes the head coach, what turnover are you referring to? The same coaches and schemes will remain. The only change would be in job titles.

The point I'm trying make refers to continuity, or the lack there of over the past decade.

The best coach available to run this team "successfully" is Cowher? Are you serious?

Gregg wouldn't be a bad candidate. I can think of worse. But if he is upgraded to HC after Gibbs leaves, I am sure Williams will feel like he has to keep Gibbs's guys in the front office. Gregg is ok as a HC candidate, but I hate the Good Old Boy Network.

I say bring in Cowher because he is automatic respect. His coaching already has been discussed. Give him automatic fire/hire power.

Russ Grimm might feel loyalty to Gibbs's guys, but he is a good candidate overall.

I think we'll fine a good coach.