The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If Joe Gibbs was San Diego's offensive coordinator in 2003 and we hired him for 2004 to now, this is what his record would look like:

2004- 6-10
2005- 10-6
2006- 5-11
2007- 5-7

Not only is the record lacking, but his tenure has been characterized by poor clock management, a failure to finish off drives, a lack of understanding of the rules of the NFL and the inability to win close games.

Given all of this, and ignoring his past success, would Joe Gibbs still be the head coach of the Redskins?

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I don't just want to dump on Gibbs, but he's not a good head coach anymore. Still, depending on how much of the recent offseason moves have been because of his input, he may be a good GM.

Sean Taylor, Chris ey, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, Rocky McIntosh etc. have all been solid draft picks. We've also been smart in free agency.

How much of this was Gibbs' doing? How much was Danny, Vinny and the Lawyers?

If the credit goes to Gibbs then make him GM and team president and let Gregg Williams take over.

If ya can't manage the clock, how do you manage a team?

If there was a question of Joe Gibbs competency, he answered it today on the last play of the game.

He acknowledged in the post-game interview the fact that he SHOULD have known the rule. He accepted FULL responsibility for that mistake.

BUT he also asked the REF on the line if he was able to do call a second time out and the answer was YES from the REF!!! At least give him the benefit of the doubt for having been given the wrong information in a nick of time when NOBODY else around helped.

Guys, there is PLENTY of BLAME to be spread around. Stop looking for an easy target. It is CHEAP and DISLOYAL to do so at his LOWEST point as a head coach. Have some decency and self-respect as fans.

Skinsfan55 wrote:If Joe Gibbs was San Diego's offensive coordinator in 2003 and we hired him for 2004 to now, this is what his record would look like:

2004- 6-10
2005- 10-6
2006- 5-11
2007- 5-7

Not only is the record lacking, but his tenure has been characterized by poor clock management, a failure to finish off drives, a lack of understanding of the rules of the NFL and the inability to win close games.

Given all of this, and ignoring his past success, would Joe Gibbs still be the head coach of the Redskins?

-----

I don't just want to dump on Gibbs, but he's not a good head coach anymore. Still, depending on how much of the recent offseason moves have been because of his input, he may be a good GM.

Sean Taylor, Chris ey, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, Rocky McIntosh etc. have all been solid draft picks. We've also been smart in free agency.

How much of this was Gibbs' doing? How much was Danny, Vinny and the Lawyers?

If the credit goes to Gibbs then make him GM and team president and let Gregg Williams take over.

I believe earlier this season one of our more stat-conscious posters did a run-down of the Redskins drafting the last few years and discovered that we have one of the WORST draft records for the lower rounds.

Yes, the Redskins have made some great draft picks and some good FA moves. They've also made just as many really, really bad ones. Overall, their draft record is mediocre to poor. And this is BEFORE you compare them to Dallas, New England, Indianapolis, and other top tier teams.

Ok,

I just got back from the game.

And I had every intention of ripping Joe a new one.

For his lack of clock management....

For his conservitive play calling to sit on a lead....THAT WE ALWAYS LOSE

For not knowing the rules when you are the head coach......

For not winning the ONE GAME that we should have won today....


But as I drove home, and while stuck in traffic I thought about it.

I know that this has to be killing Joe.

Joe is a great coach, and champion, and a family man.

I don't think there was one person on that feild that wanted it more than him.

Personally I think the NFL has changed.

Parcells saw it, Iand while I was mad today, and said that Joe is killing his legacy, I was wrong.

There is nothing he can do to ruin his legacy.

They can't take his HOF ring away.

But I think he should step down after this year, because he just dosn't have it anymore.

I know he won't. He gave his word, and we all know that his word is gold.

And if anyone can make me eat my words it is Joe Gibbs.

AND I HOPE HE DOES!!!!

Redskin in Canada wrote:He acknowledged in the post-game interview the fact that he SHOULD have known the rule. He accepted FULL responsibility for that mistake.

BUT he also asked the REF on the line if he was able to do call a second time out and the answer was YES from the REF!!! At least give him the benefit of the doubt for having been given the wrong information in a nick of time when NOBODY else around helped.

Guys, there is PLENTY of BLAME to be spread around. Stop looking for an easy target. It is CHEAP and DISLOYAL to do so at his LOWEST point as a head coach. Have some decency and self-respect as fans.

A lot of people, including myself, are most angry at Gibbs. Gibbs today humiliated himself and hurt the team by calling an illegal timeout.

Maybe the haters are on to something.

Redskin in Canada wrote:He acknowledged in the post-game interview the fact that he SHOULD have known the rule. He accepted FULL responsibility for that mistake.

BUT he also asked the REF on the line if he was able to do call a second time out and the answer was YES from the REF!!! At least give him the benefit of the doubt for having been given the wrong information in a nick of time when NOBODY else around helped.

Guys, there is PLENTY of BLAME to be spread around. Stop looking for an easy target. It is CHEAP and DISLOYAL to do so at his LOWEST point as a head coach. Have some decency and self-respect as fans.

Look, I know you want to be loyal to Joe Gibbs, he was the best coach in the NFL at one time...

But if it's not okay to talk about getting a new head coach at the lowest point of someone's coaching career... then when the hell is it okay?

He just doesn't have it anymore and the thing is, NO ONE has been able to point to anything positive he's done as head coach since 2004. The most people can say is that he's a good person, or that he's a "winner".

Well not since 1991 he's not.

Smithian wrote:
Maybe the haters are on to something.

Sacrilege I say! You will be burned at the stake as a heretic!

It was really bad that he didn't know that rule. Really bad.

But you know what, as with the rest of the team, he was emotionally drained and made mistakes. Did the timeout cost us the game? No. The team was flat, the coaches were flat, and quite frankly, I thought the fans were the worst I've heard (or not heard) in a long time. For such a large game, I would have thought there would have been more. Even the announcers mentioned it. Maybe everyone is a bit drained.

With that said, the following are all turning into themes every week
Cambell's turnovers
Gibbs or Saunders questionable playcalling
Clock management
Lack of a pass rush
4th quarter meltdown's

Skinsfan55 wrote:If Joe Gibbs was San Diego's offensive coordinator in 2003 and we hired him for 2004 to now, this is what his record would look like:

2004- 6-10
2005- 10-6
2006- 5-11
2007- 5-7
...would Joe Gibbs still be the head coach of the Redskins?

If aliens from the future came back and told me the outcome of games, I would make sure I won but I'd be sure to lose a lot too so no one knew.

If Queen Elizabeth II could fly I wouldn't think she was the most useless Monarch in British history.

If pancakes were radio active I wouldn't eat them for breakfast. I mean I don't now, but man, if they were radioactive I DEFINITELY wouldn't.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:If aliens from the future came back and told me the outcome of games, I would make sure I won but I'd be sure to lose a lot too so no one knew.

If Queen Elizabeth II could fly I wouldn't think she was the most useless Monarch in British history.

If pancakes were radio active I wouldn't eat them for breakfast. I mean I don't now, but man, if they were radioactive I DEFINITELY wouldn't.

Well that was idiotic.

Surely it's stupid to try to objectively judge Joe Gibbs' second stint as a Redskins coach.

Surely it's stupid to try to objectively judge Joe Gibbs' second stint as a Redskins coach.

"Objectively". Seems that's the operative word.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Given all of this, and ignoring his past success, would Joe Gibbs still be the head coach of the Redskins?

But you can't just discount his past. That's disengenious.

Redskin in Canada wrote:He acknowledged in the post-game interview the fact that he SHOULD have known the rule. He accepted FULL responsibility for that mistake.

As he should have. Joe Gibbs gets paid $5 million to coach a professional football team. As fans, it's not too much to expect our coach to know the rules of the game.

Redskin in Canada wrote:BUT he also asked the REF on the line if he was able to do call a second time out and the answer was YES from the REF!!!

According to Gibbs. If a referee had really given him false information, you can believe that Gibbs would have been screaming his head off when they issued the penalty. Instead, he stood on the sidelines with a "Wanna Get Away?" look on his face. Gibbs may have asked, but he didn't get a good answer.

Redskin in Canada wrote:At least give him the benefit of the doubt for having been given the wrong information in a nick of time when NOBODY else around helped.

Why? First of all, he had just used a timeout, so he had plenty of time to figure out if it was legal. It's not like he was busy calling a play. Second, he could have asked any of his assistants what the rule was. That's not some obscure technicality, that's a straightforward rule that everyone knows. Like he said, he just had a braincramp.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Guys, there is PLENTY of BLAME to be spread around. Stop looking for an easy target. It is CHEAP and DISLOYAL to do so at his LOWEST point as a head coach. Have some decency and self-respect as fans.

It's absurd to give Joe Gibbs a pass on this. I love Gibbs, and always will, but the fact that he won three rings from 1982-1991 isn't relevant in 2007. If this were Spurrier or Turner, you'd be leading the pitch-fork wielding mob.

Sorry... there's just something ironic about a member called "Steve Spurrier" passing such judgments on Joe Gibbs...

If this were Spurrier or Turner, you'd be leading the pitch-fork wielding mob.

Yup... here's the problem. Spurrier and Turner never gave RIC the opportunity to stand and cheer 3 Superbowl championship teams, now did they?

(you cool with that, RIC?)

PulpExposure wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Given all of this, and ignoring his past success, would Joe Gibbs still be the head coach of the Redskins?

But you can't just discount his past. That's disengenious.

I don't think it is, not with the long layoff. Not when the game has changed this much, not when Joe Gibbs has changed so much.

If you were to just judge Joe Gibbs based on his second stint he'd be run out of town on a rail.

Countertrey wrote:Sorry... there's just something ironic about a member called "Steve Spurrier" passing such judgments on Joe Gibbs...

Why? If the Redskins don't split these next four games, Gibbs' 2006-2007 record will be worse than Spurrier's 2002-2003. If that's not a reason to be concerned, I don't know what is.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Given all of this, and ignoring his past success, would Joe Gibbs still be the head coach of the Redskins?

But you can't just discount his past. That's disengenious.

I don't think it is, not with the long layoff. Not when the game has changed this much, not when Joe Gibbs has changed so much.

If you were to just judge Joe Gibbs based on his second stint he'd be run out of town on a rail.

Based on his second stint alone, absolutely I agree. But when you factor in that this guy is the most successful coach in Redskins history, and has a proven track record of winning Superbowls, no, you can't just discard that.

That is solid evidence that he's been successful in the past.

However, there comes a point when the present has to outweigh the past, and we're reaching that point.

Steve Spurrier III wrote: If this were Spurrier or Turner, you'd be leading the pitch-fork wielding mob.

Even those guys would have deserved some decency in view of the moment that we go through.

Talking about "operative" words in this thread, the key word in your post is MOB. That about defines you guys well. Let us agree on that.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Talking about "operative" words in this thread, the key word in your post is MOB. That about defines you guys well. Let us agree on that.

That's classic.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not overreacting. It would be a different story if this were a one time thing, but this game is just another example of the Redskins not being able to put away a game that they completely controlled - not to mention one of the most singular stupid acts I've ever seen by a coach. Gibbs has had four years, and this team is playing with the same level of inconsistency that they did under Turner and Spurrier.

He's earned the right to finish his contract. But if you think this team is going anywhere under this coaching staff, you're kidding yourself.

The grass is always greener with some guys on here. It's so typical of Skins fans too. We never have the right quarterback, never the right head coach, never look like we did in the past.

Gibbs has brought in a bunch of hard working smart players in four years. We were in shambles when Spurrior left. We had overrated players earning too much, we had an owner throwing money all over the place, we had gone through 20 or so QB's, and we had a country club atmosphere. I remember thinking to myself, "Who the hell wants to coach this team now?"

Gibbs may not be the right person after this year to coach, but he has brought something back to this team that it had lost. I'm not sure what exactly, maybe character, and I think that counts for something. We haven't seen the wins yet, but they'll come. Look at some of the kids we're building around. Too bad ST won't be part of it. But let's keep building with high quality players in the draft and sprinkle in some free agents.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Steve Spurrier III wrote: If this were Spurrier or Turner, you'd be leading the pitch-fork wielding mob.

Even those guys would have deserved some decency in view of the moment that we go through.

Talking about "operative" words in this thread, the key word in your post is MOB. That about defines you guys well. Let us agree on that.

People are having a discussion, nothing more than that, let's stick to that and not avoid the topic by suggesting otherwise.

Redskin in Canada wrote:He acknowledged in the post-game interview the fact that he SHOULD have known the rule. He accepted FULL responsibility for that mistake.

BUT he also asked the REF on the line if he was able to do call a second time out and the answer was YES from the REF!!! At least give him the benefit of the doubt for having been given the wrong information in a nick of time when NOBODY else around helped.

Guys, there is PLENTY of BLAME to be spread around. Stop looking for an easy target. It is CHEAP and DISLOYAL to do so at his LOWEST point as a head coach. Have some decency and self-respect as fans.

I accept the fact that people make mistakes in life. Football is this mans JOB. If you or make enough mistakes in our jobs you will face consequences. At the end of the day Joe is paid (very well as we all know) to do & know how to do his JOB. If he cannot perform he should be replaced. If not, why did Lloyd get benched? Not performing, the coaches should be held to an even higher standard than players.

From Redskins Insider:

We have already covered the fact that Joe Gibbs did not know a fundamental football rule. Publicly, his players said they were to blame for not making more plays; privately, many veterans fumed and looked at it as another egregious error by Gibbs in a season full of them.

"Come on man, this is the NFL," one veteran said. "What coach don't know the rules?"

Gibbs [has] now blown 5 halftime leads this season in losses and 15 since 2004, most in the NFL.