The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I may take a hit for saying this, but I think it's something that needs to be said.

I don't think we can put all the blame on our WRs for their lack of productivity this year. Some of the blame, I think, really needs to fall on JC.

The Eagles defense struggles against the pass.

If JC has another mediocre week, I think it's time this team puts Mar Brunell or Todd Collins back in there.

There, I said it.

With all due respect, Justice, I think you had a bit too much to drink.

Give JC a sporting chance! Let him prove himself at least this season. Or have you forgotten the last time we had an established QB at the helm?

Justice Hog wrote:I may take a hit for saying this, but I think it's something that needs to be said.

I don't think we can put all the blame on our WRs for their lack of productivity this year. Some of the blame, I think, really needs to fall on JC.

The Eagles defense struggles against the pass.

If JC has another mediocre week, I think it's time this team puts Brunel or Collinsl back in there.

There, I said it.

I think if J.C. had more than one healthy wide receiver at any time this season things would be a lot different. If Tom Brady had James Thrash, Brandon Lloyd, Keenan McCardell and Reche Caldwell to work with, Caldwell would be his leading receiver, as evidenced by last season.
Thrash can't get separation, Lloyd can't follow team rules, Caldwell can't get on the field. That leaves McCardell, who can't run anything considered medium or deep at this stage of his career.

Thrash isn't even healthy, so the #1, #2, and #3 receivers on the depth chart are all playing injured. The #4 is strictly a possession receiver. The #5 is currently inactive. The #6 apparently doesn't know the playbook yet.
What does J.C. have to work with, and what difference would Collins or Brunell make with this mess of a wide receiving group?

El Mexican wrote:With all due respect, Justice, I think you had a bit too much to drink.

Give JC a sporting chance! Let him prove himself at least this season. Or have you forgotten the last time we had an established QB at the helm?

JC started off strong, IMO. Remember how he looked at Philly. I think he has potential, I do.

I just haven't seen anything from him in the past 3 games or so that makes me excited about him any more. I'm not sure why, but his play has certainly fallen off.

And.....with all due respect, I think "8 games" is enough of a "sporting chance", don't you?

Don't get me wrong, I love Campbell. I really do. I want him to be our QB of the future.

I'm just in "what have you done for me lately" mode right now, ya know?

Justice Hog wrote:

El Mexican wrote:With all due respect, Justice, I think you had a bit too much to drink.

Give JC a sporting chance! Let him prove himself at least this season. Or have you forgotten the last time we had an established QB at the helm?

JC started off strong, IMO. Remember how he looked at Philly. I think he has potential, I do.

I just haven't seen anything from him in the past 3 games or so that makes me excited about him any more. I'm not sure why, but his play has certainly fallen off.

And.....with all due respect, I think "8 games" is enough of a "sporting chance", don't you?

Don't get me wrong, I love Campbell. I really do. I want him to be our QB of the future.

I'm just in "what have you done for me lately" mode right now, ya know?

The guy has us at 5-3 and we would be 6-2 if our "great" wideouts could catch a cold.

How can you blame him for the struggles last week? Was JC playing special teams? Was he committing ridiculous penalties that kepy drives alive?

He may not be playing great but guess what the coaches have him on a very short leash. He is doing much better than Brunnell ever has for the redskins and he still learning the position. GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE

Yanking Campbell after sixteen starts in favor of Brunell or Collins would be beyond stupid. This team isn't winning a championship this season - period. If Campbell can develop like we all hope he can, we might be able to really contend in the future. But if we decide to play Brunell or Collins in his stead, we're not only pissing away this season, but maybe the next ten seasons. I don't care if Campbell throws ten interceptions against the Eagles - he needs to play the rest of the season.

While I think Collins might be more effective short-term, I think we need to stick with JC. There are bound to be growing pains with a young QB and I'd rather not kill his confidence for a quick fix type solution. That is, neither of our backups have a future here so I don't think it would be wise to give them any time unless JC gets hurt, even if it means we struggle at times.

nnskinsfan wrote:While I think Collins might be more effective short-term, I think we need to stick with JC. There are bound to be growing pains with a young QB and I'd rather not kill his confidence for a quick fix type solution. That is, neither of our backups have a future here so I don't think it would be wise to give them any time unless JC gets hurt, even if it means we struggle at times.

I totally agree with you.

Wonderful idea. Yea lets bench our qb of the future after 8 games. So that Brunell or Collins can lead us to a Super Bowl??? Hahaha

As George Allen would say....the future is now.

With regard to personnel decisions, we always hear from the coaches that they start the players that give the team the best chance to win. They don't say we need to develop such and such player.

Last year, Brunell was replaced not because of horrible play, but because the season was lost at that point, so it made good sense to get JC in there to evaluate him and give him some game experience. And he did fairly well through his first 7 starts, which provided a certain expectation for this year.

But let's remember, Brunell's QB rating was 86.5 and his completion rate was 62.3. when he was replaced. Campbell's QB rating ended up 76.5 with a completion rate of 53.1.

This year, Campbell is not doing as well....his rating is down 74.8, TD's down(6), int's up (7), and 8 fumbles compared to just 1 last year. His completion percentage is up slightly (the only improvement) but that is likely due to all the short passes this year.

Now there are folks here with a big list of excuses why JC's numbers are down. Injuries to the receivers and o-line, dropped balls, poor production from receivers etc, etc., ANYTHING but poor play from the QB. But the fact is, beginning last year and continuing into this year, receivers numbers are down across the board. TD's are way down.

The common denominator here is the QB. You can blame the receivers, the o-line, play calling, and whatever else, but the QB is responsible for getting the ball to the receivers, and it ain't happening.

The last three games, JC's numbers are particularly PATHETIC. , two games against not very good teams. The inability to get the ball in the endzone against the Jets was not the o-line, and was not the receivers, and it certainly wasn't the running game.

Against Arizona he threw 12 completions for 95 yards, 0 TD's 1 int, and a passer rating of 56.5 and 1 sack.

Against NYJ 12 completions 142 yds 0 TD's 1 int, passer rating of 53.2, and 1 sack.

Three games this year he has failed to throw a TD. Four games he has thrown only 1 TD, and only once has he thrown 2.

He has fumbled in 4 of the 8 games. Twice he has fumbled 3 times in a single game.

He has more fumbles 8 and More ints 7 than TD's 6 That totals to 15 turnovers to 6 TD's.

A FREAKING STAR IS BORN!! Benching him would be beyond stupid....how?

The point is, if Brunell or Collins were the QB with such poor results, you all would be SCREAMING to have them yanked.

I'm not saying get rid of Campbell. He has much potential....but he isn't there yet. And if we do have legit problems with injuries and so forth, what positives can be gained by continuing to watch him flounder?

I say give him the philly game to show something. If he continues the poor play, and we are behind at the half, yank him and put in Brunell. Get Brunell some stick time to prepare for Dallas. If we lose to philly, we are certainly going to lose at Dallas which would make us 5-5 and OUT OF THE RACE for the division title, and 1 more loss away from being out of the playoffs.

You don't sacrifice a season to get a young QB game experience. You put the best guys on the field that give you the best chance to win each week. Right now, it's highly questionable that JC is the guy who gives us the best chance to win.

Ask the Cowboys who they'd prefer to face next week...Campbell or Brunell. I promise you most would say Campbell. They never want to see Brunell ever again after 2005.

RayNAustin wrote:
He has more fumbles 8 and More ints 7 than TD's 6 That totals to 15 turnovers to 6 TD's.

Simply not true. Campbell does have eight fumbles, but only 4 fumbles lost (although that is tied for second worst for QBs in the NFL).

So Campbell has 11 turnovers to 6 TDs, but that would be too simplistic to look at it that way.

At least a couple of ints were his WR fault (1.e. the Int in the Miami game where he threw a perfect pass and Lloyd mis-timed his jump or the int in the GB game that bunced off of Moss' hands and ARE caught - but for some reason the ref gave an int to the Packers) So that is five ints which is pretty good.

Now for TD passes: lets see. The Lloyd int that should have been a TD, the pass to Sellers in the Giants game that would have tied the game at the end it was a little low but still very catchable, the Moss pass in the GB game that bounced off Moss' face mask, the throw to Thrash in the endzone of the (Jets or Cards game - can't remeber which), or the seem route that Moss dropped in the Miami game that would have been a TD.
That is five more throws that should have been TDs that the recievers let him down on.

Has Campbell had issues, yes! But his stats are misleading! They certainly don't reflect how well he has played.

Ummm. Let's not.

Why would u wanna change our QB...thats dumb........bears went to the superbowl with rex grossman for God sake.
Give JC the chance for the growing pains.

why would u even suggest this with a winning record.....if we were 0-8 ..understandable but we are 5-3....in playoffs right now if the season ends today.

Yes you're right, 11 turnovers, not 15. I stand corrected. But you get my point. And this business about what ifs.....if so and so hadn't dropped that pass......yada yada......Are you suggesting that this doesn't happen to every QB on every team every year?

That's just part of the game. I remember TO dropping a couple of sure TD's against us. Every Sunday there are dropped passes, and tipped balls and receivers that slip and fall down.

I also see some QB's splitting defenders with perfectly thrown balls that you wonder how the heck they ever completed that pass in such tight coverage. I don't see that in Campbell so far. What I have seen are several overthrown balls, and some underthrown balls, and some wild uncatchable balls, and very few TD's.

Remember the Giants game when Campbell spiked the ball on first and goal from the ONE with 57 seconds left? I've never seen such a bonehead maneuver in my life. Ever, at any level. Only to be followed up by three equally boneheaded play calls that cost us the game (Coaching problem)

In any case, JC I believe has tremendous potential, but he's not getting the job down right now. We have a defense that is playing well, and we are fortunate enough to be 5-3 due in large measure to great defense and a bit of luck. JC has had 8 games, and that is certainly enough time for him to settle in. He's had 1 good game, and has made a few good plays when we needed it in a couple other games...but overall, he's progressively played worse these past 3 or 4 weeks, and if he continues to do this, we are going nowhere without a change.

I say you HAVE to make a change. If your offense is stalled, you need to make a change to get a spark going, to get a jumpstart on this thing. Same thing with the receivers....we've got McCardell and Caldwell on ice with Moss, ARE, and Thrash limping. Put Caldwell out there...get Lloyd out there, rotate these guys a bit. It's not like things could get much worse offensively.

It's like that old joke.....Doc, it hurts when I do THIS.....well, the Doc says, stop doing that.

So far this team continues to do the same things week in and week out. And it isn't working any better this week than it did last.

Time to shake things up, and get some new blood in the mix.

funsho2 wrote:why would u even suggest this with a winning record.....if we were 0-8 ..understandable but we are 5-3....in playoffs right now if the season ends today.

No WE WOULD NOT BE. NYG 6-2, and Detroit 6-2 would be the wild cards, if the season ended now. Translation=we are a game behind for the second wild card spot, and two games behind the Cowboys.

Yes we have 5 wins. Four of those wins came from teams with losing records Miami 0-8, Arizona 3-5, NYJ 1-7, and Philly 3-5. And it took two over times, and a missed FG to win 3 of them. Collectively, those four teams have 7 wins....the Cowboys have 7 wins.

What part of THIS OFFENSE SUKS AND CANNOT SCORE AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE do you not grasp?

quite possibly the dumbest suggestion i have ever heard of. perhaps, we should bench campbell, and start randel el? i mean, geez, we are 5-3... and favored to go 6-3. tell you what, i needed some very strong rum and cokes to get me through the patroits debacle... i wish i had some of what this guy had. would have made that game livable if i was in lalaland like the dude who started this thread!

RayNAustin wrote:

funsho2 wrote:why would u even suggest this with a winning record.....if we were 0-8 ..understandable but we are 5-3....in playoffs right now if the season ends today.

No WE WOULD NOT BE. NYG 6-2, and Detroit 6-2 would be the wild cards, if the season ended now. Translation=we are a game behind for the second wild card spot, and two games behind the Cowboys.

Yes we have 5 wins. Four of those wins came from teams with losing records Miami 0-8, Arizona 3-5, NYJ 1-7, and Philly 3-5. And it took two over times, and a missed FG to win 3 of them. Collectively, those four teams have 7 wins....the Cowboys have 7 wins.

What part of THIS OFFENSE SUKS AND CANNOT SCORE AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE do you not grasp?

of course, if you look at the glass the other way, the 3 teams we lost to are a combined 22-3. and we played 2 of the 3 on the road. and as far as i am concerned, we are really 5-2... cause nobody is beating the patroits... that was just a scrimmage.

furthermore, you can say 5 of the cowboys wins were against the dolphins 0-8, rams 0-8, viks/bears/eagles 3-5. that means 5 wins vs. teams with only 9 wins between them. they also havent beaten a team that had a winning record at the time of playing them... and only have 1 win versus a winning team all year, and that was at home, in their opener!

While I do not think that Campbell will ever be anything but a mediocre quarterback, I can think of no reason, real or imaginary that would make me want Brunell or Collins in as the starting quarterback.

Justice, through these turbulent times, it's refreshing to see someone have a rational take on what needs to happen with our team. I agree, Jason needs to be benched. Jason has been the sore spot on our team for the majority of the season. I know there are people who feel strongly against replacing Campbell, but it's time to face reality. With our losing record and our playoff chances out the window, we need to get to the root of the problem. There I said it.........






what?...................................








....i'm sorry. after reviewing my sources, i see we're 5-3....my dyslexia was acting up.


nevermind then.

Our offensive line has lost two quality players; our top receivers are hurt. Under the circumstances, I think JC is doing well.

joedondero1919 wrote:quite possibly the dumbest suggestion i have ever heard of. perhaps, we should bench campbell, and start randel el? i mean, geez, we are 5-3... and favored to go 6-3. tell you what, i needed some very strong rum and cokes to get me through the patroits debacle... i wish i had some of what this guy had. would have made that game livable if i was in lalaland like the dude who started this thread!

If The offense continues as it has all year, this team will be lucky to break 500.

We have beaten 1 team with a winning record this year, Detroit. We have Philly, Dallas, TB, Buf, Chi, NYG, Min, Dallas comming up. Their collective records are 38-26. The collective records of the teams we've beaten are 13-28, with two overtimes against teams that are 1-15 collectively and one missed FG from 3-5 Cards team.

The Giants have won 6 in a row, and their defense is playing as well as anyone 7th. The Cowboys are second only to the Patriots in offense and 8th in defense.

Either we figure out the offense in the next 12 hours or this team is liable to wind up 8-8.

Fan035 wrote:Our offensive line has lost two quality players; our top receivers are hurt. Under the circumstances, I think JC is doing well.

Doing well? We beat one team with a winning record this year and that's doing well? Tell me this again later when we are 8-8 and watching the Cowboys and Giants in the playoffs this year again?

RayNAustin wrote:

joedondero1919 wrote:quite possibly the dumbest suggestion i have ever heard of. perhaps, we should bench campbell, and start randel el? i mean, geez, we are 5-3... and favored to go 6-3. tell you what, i needed some very strong rum and cokes to get me through the patroits debacle... i wish i had some of what this guy had. would have made that game livable if i was in lalaland like the dude who started this thread!

If The offense continues as it has all year, this team will be lucky to break 500.

We have beaten 1 team with a winning record this year, Detroit. We have Philly, Dallas, TB, Buf, Chi, NYG, Min, Dallas comming up. Their collective records are 38-26. The collective records of the teams we've beaten are 13-28, with two overtimes against teams that are 1-15 collectively and one missed FG from 3-5 Cards team.

The Giants have won 6 in a row, and their defense is playing as well as anyone 7th. The Cowboys are second only to the Patriots in offense and 8th in defense.

Either we figure out the offense in the next 12 hours or this team is liable to wind up 8-8.

my point is that this team is difficult to predict... because, you are right, the teams we have beat are a combined 13-28. BUT, the teams we lost to are 22-3. so, where do we land? unfortunately, our schedule to this point was not weighted with 4-4 teams to judge against. we have faced the best, and the worst. nothing in between. but, to this point we have beaten most of the teams we were favored to beat. if that trend continues we will still end up with 9+ wins. we will be favored over the eagles, bills, bears, and vikings. we will only be a small dog at tampa and home versus dallas (who might not be playing for much). we will be a bigger dog at giants and at dallas. so, even with a more difficult upcoming schedule, we will still be favored to win those games.

Lol, look at VY's numbers.

JC makes plays. That's all that matters. We're 5-3.

I hate that most Skins fan's don't appreciate things.