The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

what part of go for the throat don't they understand?

i can't belive the mentality of the coaches after last weeks drubbing. PROTECT A 3PT LEAD????????? NO SHOTS TO THE DEEP END WITH 10 SECS TO GO????????????

after our run only, protect the 3 fricken point lead at the 3 yd line drive, then, the loss of the coin toss, and, after a "we give up" 39 yd play to the jets, my beer hit the wall somewhere around the front door. the wall is trashed and i'm out a beer. hince the name of the thread.

it's a damn good thing suisham hit the FG, or a bottle would have gone through the glass on the back door too.

someone has to accept a little responsibility for the fans sanity. i mean, i was already set to send an invoice to redskins park. maybe when i die from a FARGIN HEART-ATTACK at the begining of overtime, maybe someone would take notice.

or we could just protect a(3 ????? point) lead from here on out?


this sucks ass. a win is good, but to beat a dead fricken horse, why can't we just pu a bad team down and out??????

I hear you. It's unbelievable how conservative our coaches are. I couldn't believe it when we ran the ball on 3rd down during our last possession in the 4th before the Jets tied the game. It's amazing how willing Gibbs is to put the defense in positions were they have to win the game for us. We wait until overtime to throw a deep ball to Moss (the first one in I don't know who many weeks) and then people wonder why there is no timing between our qb and receivers. We played arguably the worst defense in the NFL and still only managed 20 points. Other than the Lions game we have yet to look like anything other than a mediocre NFL team.

I agree. But as opposed to you, I have a theory:

I feel that the coaches do not trust the accuracy, speed and timing of Jason Campbell. They just do not trust the guy to execute. And, after a few games this season, I will tell you what: NEITHER DO I.

Jason is WAY too green and he has quite a while to go before we compete for a Conference Championship. I mean guys: NOT A SINGLE TD TO WRs THIS SEASON??? People were at Brunell's throat for a lot less.

Not good guys, not good. There was a point winning or losing games like this one does not really improve things much. Our team is playing just plain AWFUL. I love them to death but right now, they have no hope against our conference rivals. Not good at all.

Hailskins wrote

what part of go for the throat don't they understand?

i can't belive the mentality of the coaches after last weeks drubbing. PROTECT A 3PT LEAD????????? NO SHOTS TO THE DEEP END WITH 10 SECS TO GO????????????

...and I thought the same for a few seconds, then realized that there was more chance of Betts breaking loose than of completing a pass, and not much in either case. The Jets had 3 men on the line, and eight guys very deep on both plays the Redskins ran in the last 10 seconds. Odds were better as long as Betts kept his hands on the ball.

hailskins666 wrote:i'm out a beer.

We all know this is the only thing you're really mad about.

Jason is WAY too green and he has quite a while to go before we compete for a Conference Championship. I mean guys: NOT A SINGLE TD TO WRs THIS SEASON??? People were at Brunell's throat for a lot less.

Um JC hasn't even started a season's worth of games and Brunell has been in the league for over 10 years. As for the lack of td's to receivers, that's as much the fault of the receivers and the coaches as JC. Did you see the pass patterns that we were running today? 2 guys out in patterns, covered by 5 or more defenders. No wonder JC is always checking down. Before the deep ball to Moss in OT, the last 3 deep balls that we threw (one in each of the last 3 games) were to James Thrash, who is slightly better than a tackling dummy. He should've had the first receivers' td of the season but didn't make the catch. JC is never going to develop if the coaches don't let throw the ball down field more. Against the Pats they let JC come out throwing and it worked pretty well on the opening drive and then all of a sudden they got conservative.

And it would be nice if one of our receivers actually went out and made a play for our qb. When was the last time we saw a receiver make a difficult catch or go up for a ball and outfight the defender for it? James Thrash is the perfect example. The catch today in the end zone would've been a difficult catch, but a good NFL receiver goes up and makes a play for his qb. Just like Lloyd should've done in the Dolphins game. Or against the Cardinals, late in the 4th when JC hit Thrash in stride and he dropped the ball. Or all of the dropped passes in the Green Bay game. The problems of the passing games go far beyond the qb. Just look at how well JC played in the first half of the Giants game or the Lions and Packers games. He has shown that he has the ability to make plays but Gibbs wont get out of his conservative mindset.

It also doesn't help when the coaches don't put JC in a position to be successful. Running on first and second down and then all of sudden expecting the qb to be able to make plays consistently on 3rd down isn't realistic. A qb has to be able to get into a rhythm, but how is he supposed to do that when we come out running most of the time and then only let him throw on 3rd downs?

Clearly we don't have the timing down on deep plays, but it's going to be that way until we consistently start calling those types of plays. When was the last time (before OT) that we had thrown a bomb to Moss?? It's unrealistic to not call that play for weeks and then expect JC to hit that play in OT. Yes they practice this stuff during the week, but that isn't the same as game situations.

welch wrote:Hailskins wrote

what part of go for the throat don't they understand?

i can't belive the mentality of the coaches after last weeks drubbing. PROTECT A 3PT LEAD????????? NO SHOTS TO THE DEEP END WITH 10 SECS TO GO????????????

...and I thought the same for a few seconds, then realized that there was more chance of Betts breaking loose than of completing a pass, and not much in either case. The Jets had 3 men on the line, and eight guys very deep on both plays the Redskins ran in the last 10 seconds. Odds were better as long as Betts kept his hands on the ball.

I disagree. At least with a bomb to the end zone there is a chance for pass interference. Or how about the Dolphins game when ARE almost scored on the hail mary right before half time?

I disagree. At least with a bomb to the end zone there is a chance for pass interference. Or how about the Dolphins game when ARE almost scored on the hail mary right before half time?

Yes, that was my first thought, as I mentioned. Then thought that a long pass ran a larger risk of interception or fumble by Campbell, and almost zero chance of TD.

welch wrote:

I disagree. At least with a bomb to the end zone there is a chance for pass interference. Or how about the Dolphins game when ARE almost scored on the hail mary right before half time?

Yes, that was my first thought, as I mentioned. Then thought that a long pass ran a larger risk of interception or fumble by Campbell, and almost zero chance of TD.

yeah how crappy would we feel if it was ino'd or fumble return for a TD???

This is getting ridiculous. I mean wow, how can a man keep his sanity with this buffoonism. Jeemany Christmas.

Up and down, you just never know what is going to happen with this team.

We seriously seriously !! need a wide reciever. A big physical hands of glue wide reciever. Please send us one in next years draft please.

HEROHAMO wrote:We seriously seriously !! need a wide reciever. A big physical hands of glue wide reciever. Please send us one in next years draft please.

Limas Sweed fits the bill.

rookie WRs almost always suck, and free agent WRs are too expensive, especially considering how much money/cap space we're flushing down the toilet on lloyd.

front office is going to have to pull a rabbit from up their sleeve to have the WR problem fixed even within the next couple years... we can count on them! yeah, i'm sure we'll be fine...

die cowboys die wrote:rookie WRs almost always suck, and free agent WRs are too expensive, especially considering how much money/cap space we're flushing down the toilet on lloyd.

front office is going to have to pull a rabbit from up their sleeve to have the WR problem fixed even within the next couple years... we can count on them! yeah, i'm sure we'll be fine...

The thing that kills me is that we dont even give Lloyd game time. At least we dont throw him the ball. I dont even want to think of cap space

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:We seriously seriously !! need a wide reciever. A big physical hands of glue wide reciever. Please send us one in next years draft please.

Limas Sweed fits the bill.

Yeah. Limas Sweed, Adarius Bowman Ok st, Jaison Williams, Oregon, Malcom Kelly, Oklahoma.

There are a couple good wide receiver prospects coming out in 2008 draft.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I agree. But as opposed to you, I have a theory:

I feel that the coaches do not trust the accuracy, speed and timing of Jason Campbell. They just do not trust the guy to execute. And, after a few games this season, I will tell you what: NEITHER DO I.

Jason is WAY too green and he has quite a while to go before we compete for a Conference Championship. I mean guys: NOT A SINGLE TD TO WRs THIS SEASON??? People were at Brunell's throat for a lot less.

Not good guys, not good. There was a point winning or losing games like this one does not really improve things much. Our team is playing just plain AWFUL. I love them to death but right now, they have no hope against our conference rivals. Not good at all.

i've been thinikng the same thing about JC. hate to hear someone else is thinking the same thing.

he hasn't had days to stand in the pocket, i know. and there have been a lot of drops. but his accuracy to lead a sprinting reciever for an 'in stride' catch, is atrocious. the deep ball to moss was on JC. he also had cooley across the middle, and threw too high. both of those would have been big plays, a converted third down to cooley, and most likely a TD to moss.

in the 1st quarter there was another play to moss where he threw behind santana, and even worse on that particular play, could've gotten moss' head taken off by having to adjust.

it seems like the 'jitters' maybe. but it just doesn't seem to have gone away. i'm hoping this is one of those cases of player 'thinking' too much on the field. but usually, its not something that is cured in one season. usually after a player has had time to digest a particular system, they calm down and just play more and not think so much. it does seem to be fixable, just not sure if it'll happen this year.

LOL.. Man o man, I feel all ya'll pains for real. I nearly destroyed my remote control yesterday. It's an old universal one so I really wasn't thinking at the time. *original remote has been long trashed from the gnats game* Luckily for me we have carpet and I guess I had the bounce Godz wit me.

I noticed someone commented on the deep ball to Moss in OT.. was it me or did anyone else think Moss held up on that play? I know he had a bruise heel so maybe that was it but I think JC aired it out beautifully and Moss should've had that. Also, maybe they're on the field too long but the defense didn't seem to "ATTACK" like they did the first couple of weeks.

GO SKINS !!! KILL DA EAGLES !!!

hailskins666 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I agree. But as opposed to you, I have a theory:

I feel that the coaches do not trust the accuracy, speed and timing of Jason Campbell. They just do not trust the guy to execute. And, after a few games this season, I will tell you what: NEITHER DO I.

Jason is WAY too green and he has quite a while to go before we compete for a Conference Championship. I mean guys: NOT A SINGLE TD TO WRs THIS SEASON??? People were at Brunell's throat for a lot less.

Not good guys, not good. There was a point winning or losing games like this one does not really improve things much. Our team is playing just plain AWFUL. I love them to death but right now, they have no hope against our conference rivals. Not good at all.

i've been thinikng the same thing about JC. hate to hear someone else is thinking the same thing.

he hasn't had days to stand in the pocket, i know. and there have been a lot of drops. but his accuracy to lead a sprinting reciever for an 'in stride' catch, is atrocious. the deep ball to moss was on JC. he also had cooley across the middle, and threw too high. both of those would have been big plays, a converted third down to cooley, and most likely a TD to moss.

in the 1st quarter there was another play to moss where he threw behind santana, and even worse on that particular play, could've gotten moss' head taken off by having to adjust.

it seems like the 'jitters' maybe. but it just doesn't seem to have gone away. i'm hoping this is one of those cases of player 'thinking' too much on the field. but usually, its not something that is cured in one season. usually after a player has had time to digest a particular system, they calm down and just play more and not think so much. it does seem to be fixable, just not sure if it'll happen this year.

If just having a strong arm was good enough, guys like Jay Schroeder would have had Hall Of Fame careers. When a QB throws the football with Brett Favre / John Elway velocity, you have no margin for error. When a QB throws a deep ball, he has to get enough air under the pass to allow for the wide receiver to adjust to the pass. 50 yard "bullet" passes are simply not catcheable.

A 6'5" QB throwing "downhill" to 5'10" receivers is obviously not working either. This might be at least part of the reason why ey and Sellers are easier targets for J.C..

J.C. is still a work in progress. Mark Brunell knows nothing about having that type of arm strength, and nothing about how to make minor adjustments to your delivery if you do have that type of arm strength. Brunell had the opposite problem of floating passes. I don't think he's the right "tutor" for J.C. I wonder what Favre is doing if or when he retires ...

GSPODS wrote: I don't think he's the right "tutor" for J.C. I wonder what Favre is doing if or when he retires ...

i don't know about retirement, but right now, he's winning the heck out of some football games.

We need a good GM to go find us a kid at WR like Greg Jennings in GB. He's got size and dude can flat out fly. He's the real reason why Favre and the Packers are doing better this season. Driver used to be that guy but now, he's become that possession WR for GB that we actually need (not saying we should go get him). GB got this kid out of Western Michigan two years ago in the second round (pick 52).

If Lloyd is done, and it's looks like it judging from this past week/weekend, it's time to take this opportunity to find that diamond in the rough, maybe in the later rounds of the upcoming draft. I'm just not sure if Moss can shake that injury bug. ARE is "who we thought he was", that #2 slot/slash type of guy. We just need to get him more involved.

roybus14 wrote:We need a good GM to go find us a kid at WR like Greg Jennings in GB. He's got size and dude can flat out fly. He's the real reason why Favre and the Packers are doing better this season. Driver used to be that guy but now, he's become that possession WR for GB that we actually need (not saying we should go get him). GB got this kid out of Western Michigan two years ago in the second round (pick 52).

If Lloyd is done, and it's looks like it judging from this past week/weekend, it's time to take this opportunity to find that diamond in the rough, maybe in the later rounds of the upcoming draft. I'm just not sure if Moss can shake that injury bug. ARE is "who we thought he was", that #2 slot/slash type of guy. We just need to get him more involved.

The first problem is ... this team needs more than one wide receiver. It seems certain that Lloyd, McCardell, Caldwell are gone. Thrash should be gone, although Joe Gibbs' has George Allen disease when it comes to 'aging veterans'. He never met one he wouldn't keep around.

The second problem is this team needs a lot more than just wide receivers. The Redskins could be looking for two offensive linemen, a quarterback, a starting cornerback, a nickel cornerback, a backup linebacker ... the list goes on and on.

GSPODS wrote:

roybus14 wrote:We need a good GM to go find us a kid at WR like Greg Jennings in GB. He's got size and dude can flat out fly. He's the real reason why Favre and the Packers are doing better this season. Driver used to be that guy but now, he's become that possession WR for GB that we actually need (not saying we should go get him). GB got this kid out of Western Michigan two years ago in the second round (pick 52).

If Lloyd is done, and it's looks like it judging from this past week/weekend, it's time to take this opportunity to find that diamond in the rough, maybe in the later rounds of the upcoming draft. I'm just not sure if Moss can shake that injury bug. ARE is "who we thought he was", that #2 slot/slash type of guy. We just need to get him more involved.

The first problem is ... this team needs more than one wide receiver. It seems certain that Lloyd, McCardell, Caldwell are gone. Thrash should be gone, although Joe Gibbs' has George Allen disease when it comes to 'aging veterans'. He never met one he wouldn't keep around.

The second problem is this team needs a lot more than just wide receivers. The Redskins could be looking for two offensive linemen, a quarterback, a starting cornerback, a nickel cornerback, a backup linebacker ... the list goes on and on.

I hear you and I agree on the CB and maybe linemen but QB, LB and Nickel CB??? What we got starting are good enough, IMO. I think so especially on defense because it's just a matter of GW loosening up his "system" a little teeny bit and letting these guys use a little of their god-given ability to make plays.

But on the offense, a QB? JC ain't cuttin' or you looking for a backup. If it's JC ain't cuttin' it, I disagree. The guys coaching this offense are not allowing him to be successful and using his tools. The reason why some of his missed throws seem so glaring is because of what they are calling and the limited opportunities he get's to go down field. There were two throws that stood out to me yesterday. One, the pass way behind Moss across the middle. That was bad. The other was the deep ball to Moss. He could have thrown it a little better maybe but would a "healthy" Moss or even B.Lloyd have made that catch, I dunno? Otherwise, I think he did a good job yesterday when he wasn't getting hit.

roybus14 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

roybus14 wrote:We need a good GM to go find us a kid at WR like Greg Jennings in GB. He's got size and dude can flat out fly. He's the real reason why Favre and the Packers are doing better this season. Driver used to be that guy but now, he's become that possession WR for GB that we actually need (not saying we should go get him). GB got this kid out of Western Michigan two years ago in the second round (pick 52).

If Lloyd is done, and it's looks like it judging from this past week/weekend, it's time to take this opportunity to find that diamond in the rough, maybe in the later rounds of the upcoming draft. I'm just not sure if Moss can shake that injury bug. ARE is "who we thought he was", that #2 slot/slash type of guy. We just need to get him more involved.

The first problem is ... this team needs more than one wide receiver. It seems certain that Lloyd, McCardell, Caldwell are gone. Thrash should be gone, although Joe Gibbs' has George Allen disease when it comes to 'aging veterans'. He never met one he wouldn't keep around.

The second problem is this team needs a lot more than just wide receivers. The Redskins could be looking for two offensive linemen, a quarterback, a starting cornerback, a nickel cornerback, a backup linebacker ... the list goes on and on.

I hear you and I agree on the CB and maybe linemen but QB, LB and Nickel CB??? What we got starting are good enough, IMO. I think so especially on defense because it's just a matter of GW loosening up his "system" a little teeny bit and letting these guys use a little of their god-given ability to make plays.

But on the offense, a QB? JC ain't cuttin' or you looking for a backup. If it's JC ain't cuttin' it, I disagree. The guys coaching this offense are not allowing him to be successful and using his tools. The reason why some of his missed throws seem so glaring is because of what they are calling and the limited opportunities he get's to go down field. There were two throws that stood out to me yesterday. One, the pass way behind Moss across the middle. That was bad. The other was the deep ball to Moss. He could have thrown it a little better maybe but would a "healthy" Moss or even B.Lloyd have made that catch, I dunno? Otherwise, I think he did a good job yesterday when he wasn't getting hit.

My thinking on the QB is that Brunell is probably gone, not that J.C. isn't getting it done. My thinking on linebacker is that Randall Godfrey isn't exactly a "spring chicken", and Marcus Washington's durability is questionable. My thinking on the cornerback situation is that Springs may be gone and that Macklin is behind Torrence on the depth chart, even though he has several years of experience. That makes me think Macklin may not be here next season. I'm just thinking about possibilities here, and none of this is a given.

PLEASE stop scrutinising all the holes we have at different positions.

Don't you think that with the kind of payroll that we have, this talk "should" be a little ridiculous? Should we not have not only great starters but decent backups at all those positions??? It is the FRONT OFFICE guys. BUT LEAVE IT ASIDE for a moment.

GREAT TEAMS are led by GREAT QBs. Jason Campbell is a great PROSPECT. He MIGHT deliver in the future but in the future as in a season or even two from now. He has many qualities and great potential. But there is no way on earth that he can avoid the responsibility for not connecting with his WRs.

Jason must work on his ACCURACY, TIMING and SPEED OF DELIVERY. His passes are

- NOT ACCURATE;
- HIS TIMING IS SUFFICIENTLY OFF to make his passes difficult to catch; and
- HE IS TOO SLOW TO GET RID OF THE BALL.

If he manages to fix these things, he will be great for us. If he does not, and he HAS NOT SO FAR, we will remain suffering miserably following the Skins every week.

It would not hurt if he moved around a little to help our team. He will never have Vince Young's mobility but -any- movement can help when he needs to buy a second or two to help the OL.

WE WILL GO THE WAY JASON GOES.

Redskin in Canada wrote:PLEASE stop scrutinising all the holes we have at different positions.

I know I shouldn't but ...

As a man, I must admit I enjoy scrutinizing holes from different positions.

But I digress. To your original point, if J.C. were as accurate as Ken Anderson I still don't think this team would be clicking on all cylinders. A healthy Santana Moss probably would have caught that deep pass yesterday. A healthy Santana Moss and any viable option as the #3 receiver would draw the double teams away from Randle El. Just the fact that Randle El, not Moss, is being double teamed speaks volumes about the deficiencies in the wide receiving corps.

Some of this can be blamed on J.C. but some of it is on the receivers.