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Redskins' offence back to square one

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:04 am
by CanesSkins26
Looks like the good old run, run, pass, punt offense is coming back :roll:

Redskins' offence back to square one: 'We're starting a whole new year'

4 hours ago

ASHBURN, Va. - Joe Gibbs is starting over in the middle of the season - for the second year in a row.

Wednesday was shake-up day for the languid Washington Redskins offence, ranked 28th in the league and ineffective on all fronts. The personnel was the same, but the practice was more physical and the emphasis renewed on streamlining the attack back into the traditional Gibbs mold.

"We're starting a whole new year today offensively," quarterback Jason Campbell said. "We've put everything behind us in the past, and we're starting from scratch again."

The catalyst was Sunday's 52-7 beating by the New England Patriots. On Monday, a group of 10 or so team leaders known as "The Committee" met with Gibbs, then the entire offence had its own players-only gathering.

"We've all decided enough's enough," right tackle Todd Wade said. "The defence has done well this year. It's time for everybody to come together and focus on doing their job. ... We're going to back to the basics on everything."

Meanwhile, the coaches' meetings this week focused on an offence that is averaging three yards per carry over the past five games, that has yet to surpass 250 yards passing this season, that has scored more than 21 points only once. It's an attack that has looked like an awkward Gibbs-Saunders hybrid since Al Saunders, mammoth playbook in tow, was hired to run the offence last year.

"We have more volume than we've had in the past," longtime Gibbs assistant Joe Bugel said. "And now we're trying to break it now into what's best for us. That's the bottom line."

In other words, look for an even bigger Gibbs footprint: Run first, take shots upfield and count on the defense to lead.

If all this sounds familiar, it is. With six games to play last season, Gibbs ordered a team-wide rededication to "Redskins football" - emphasizing running the ball, stopping the run and holding more physical practices. The offence started to run the ball effectively, but the defence collapsed in the 2-4 finish to a 5-11 season.

This year's mid-season wake-up call is offence-only; the defence had been playing well until the loss to the Patriots. Receiver Antwaan Randle El was one of the leaders of the players' meeting, along with kick returner Rock Cartwright, left tackle Chris Samuels, Campbell and others.

"We told each other we've got to hold each other accountable," Cartwright said. "Regardless of what play's called, we've got to run that play to the best of our ability. And if you don't like the play call, so what? You've got 10 other guys depending on you."

The offence has problems all over. The line lost right tackle Jon Jansen and right guard Randy Thomas to early season injuries. There's no reliable No. 3 receiver behind Santana Moss and Randle El, and Moss hasn't been himself since hurting his groin a month ago. Clinton Portis is mired in the worst slump of his career, and the explanation that he's yet to get to full strength following an off-season knee injury is starting to wear thin. Campbell has promise but is still raw, as evidenced by his three lost fumbles at New England.

The weak running game is particularly embarrassing for Gibbs and his brain trust of experienced assistants.

"That's not us. We didn't come back to put up with that kind of stuff," Bugel said. "We'll solve the problem. We need co-operation from everybody, and the guys who don't want to co-operate won't play. It's real simple. We're going to do it this way or Trailway. Make up your mind."

Gibbs said there was no plan to replace Portis with Ladell Betts, who played so well in Portis' absence last season. Instead, the practices will reflect the run-first commitment.

"Generally over a period of time, if you work hard on the running game, it'll pay off," Gibbs said. "If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

The Redskins were quick to point out that last year's change of attitude came after the season was already lost. This year's team is 4-3 going into this weekend's game against the New York Jets.

"It's not time to surrender," Wade said. "We have a lot of games left, and we can really make something great out of it."

Coincidentally, a load of black T-shirts arrived Wednesday with burgundy and gold lettering that read: "When you are winning, fight like you are losing." Cartwright ordered them back when the main concern was blown second-half leads, but the players were eagerly putting on the shirts and soaking up the message.

"That got here at the perfect time," Cartwright said.

Notes:In case anyone was wondering, Gibbs still lives in a cocoon during football season. When someone wished him a "Happy Halloween" on Wednesday, the coach wrinkled his forehead and said, "When is that? Tomorrow?" ... TE Todd Yoder (ankle) was the only player limited in practice.


http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5j_FzPus5SwhRIDlNHAkQN746FHqw

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:11 am
by Taylor21
Nooooooooooo!!!


wow, a run first commitment..... were doomed with this guy. we are not suprising anybody.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:51 am
by Dmkskins86
didn't we have a run first commitment already?

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:47 am
by Taylor21
Dmkskins86 wrote:didn't we have a run first commitment already?
the answer to your question is "yes"

unfortunately

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:51 am
by Irn-Bru
That's also what got us into the playoffs in 2005. It works when you execute it well.

One thing is for sure, though, we need a running offense. For anyone asking for a pass-only or pass heavy offense, remember that the offensive line is showing its problems there, too: 3 fumbles on 3 sacks.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:14 am
by PulpExposure
Irn-Bru wrote:That's also what got us into the playoffs in 2005. It works when you execute it well.


And you have a dominant line :)

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:15 am
by Fios
PulpExposure wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:That's also what got us into the playoffs in 2005. It works when you execute it well.


And you have a dominant line :)


And healthy running backs

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:18 am
by KazooSkinsFan
Technically I don't think they ever got off square one.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:22 am
by GSPODS
"That's not us. We didn't come back to put up with that kind of stuff," Bugel said. "We'll solve the problem. We need co-operation from everybody, and the guys who don't want to co-operate won't play. It's real simple. We're going to do it this way or Trailway. Make up your mind."

Wouldn't it be special if this comment had come from the other Joe?

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:17 am
by langleyparkjoe
Run, Walk, Skip, Jog.. I don't give a crap how they get it done, just do it already! Why is that now, week 9, coach has to say "we're going back to Redskins football".. What we're we doing weeks 1-8, playing Dolphin Ball? Every time I read something from our coaches, I just get more and more disgruntled. Our line is banged up something serious and running the ball is the solution? Our line is banged up something crucial and throwing the ball is the solution? WE HAVE NO SOLUTION! So what da heck do we do??? The season isn't gonna pause while our guys get healthy. We need to act now, like right now! What's wrong with trying a no-huddle offense to keep the tired defense on the field? Why is it that other teams can do play action pass on almost every flippin down? Isn't Ladell and CP pretty good running backs for draw plays? I think JC can bootleg and make a play for 5 yard gain wether he runs it or passes it.

sdfjklsdfklasdfakl.. *me bashing my head against the keyboard*

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:23 am
by Cappster
To me it seems that the players are looking to take someone's head off after the embarrassing loss to the Patriots. I think part of what went on when the "committee" met was to demand a change. What kind of change? Not sure. I do think it was something about having that "killer instinct" not just in the second half but from the moment the ball is kicked off to start the game. If we don't knock around the Jets this weekend, I will be surprised.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:32 am
by Redskin in Canada
I do not care about the negative attitudes of many. I am REALLY motiated to watch the game on SUNDAY.

The match between Saunders/Gibbs has not worked well at all. I am delighted with making things simpler. That's who we are. I am delighted with the player's attitude.

Joe Bugel, I love you man. :twisted:

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:52 am
by roybus14
Well, they might as well fire Al Saunders. This is their way of saying Al Saunders' offense does not work.

It's nice to hear that they had a team meeting and people are saying the right things but it won't fix the problem of management of this team by this HC. Why did it take this long to come to this conclusion? Why when this HC, his offensive coaches, and a portion of the players never bought into Al Saunders' offense from the get go, IMO? Because if they did, you would see the results of it by now. Al came in with an associate HC (Bugel) from the Gibbs era that was a huge part of what Redskins Football was and is. The deck was stacked against from the jump. How many of Al's people did Al bring with him?

These guys grumbled when Gibbs made the move with Saunders in the begining. But hey, if I were Al, I'd continue to collect my checks and at the end of this season move on. "Football" people know he is still a great OC so they would be lining up to get him despite this crap going on here....

Alot of folks want to accuse us fans of "knee-jerk" reactions, well this is one by this HC and this team right now..... But, I'm a fan of this team and I will stick with them to the end but this is just another reason why I created the "Immunity" thread.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:26 am
by wbbradb
roybus14 wrote:Well, they might as well fire Al Saunders. This is their way of saying Al Saunders' offense does not work.

Exactly right. Saunders is now out of the loop it seems, thank God! Hopefully, this means Gibbs will take over the playcalling. I know a lot of people on this board don't feel that way, and a lot of people would rather have Saunders than Gibbs, but not me.

In fact, I think that this change will actually "open up" the offense a little. We'll see more deep bombs, *much* more play action, and generally more scoring. Gibbs wants BALANCE more than anything. Whatever Saunders created in KC, he couldn't do it here. It's done. Maybe that's because the players didn't fully buy into his system, maybe it's because he couldn't get the right kinds of players to fit the system, whatever. This is really the best news we've had all week. Injuries to the offensive line will make it difficult, but run blocking is easier (mentally) than pass blocking and having to pick up blitzes from all over the place. Play action will help slow up pressure to the QB. This is good news people!

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:33 am
by roybus14
I hear folks jumping for joy. But how do you get back to Redskins Football with the same guys on the right side that many folks on this board were calling bums??? The last time I checked, Redskins Football was smash-mouth running then passing. How will you do that if the right side of the line are bums?????

What makes people think that going back to Redskins Football with solve our problems?? All of a sudden, Todd Wade becomes an All-pro O-Lineman? All of a sudden the WR's magically appear open? All of a sudden, we stop running the same WR screen that people know is coming?

IMO, this is a sign of desperation because of poor leadership and lack of whatever from the HC..... But as a fan, I will stand behind my team...

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:02 pm
by langleyparkjoe
thank god Saunders is now out of the loop? we never gave Saunders a chance to do anything!!!!! why? because Gibbs is there objecting. like i said before 2 offensive coordinators can't call plays. noticed many of times gibbs deferred saying al called the plays, other times al said gibbs called the plays. garbage. i say get them the both out of town and bring in a head coach with his own staff. simple.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:49 pm
by 1niksder
langleyparkjoe wrote:thank god Saunders is now out of the loop? we never gave Saunders a chance to do anything!!!!! why? because Gibbs is there objecting. like i said before 2 offensive coordinators can't call plays. noticed many of times gibbs deferred saying al called the plays, other times al said gibbs called the plays. garbage. i say get them the both out of town and bring in a head coach with his own staff. simple.


For the record Don Breaux is the offensive coordinator so basically we have three :D

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:00 pm
by Justice Hog
I'm just happy to hear that the whole offensive unit is standing up and acknowledging that they suck right now...and they all know something needs to be done.

That's the first step, folks.

Let's see what they do with it!

Keeping my fingers crossed.....

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:02 pm
by EasyMoney
I'm not against Saunders or anything and I'm just as baffled as everyone else regarding the ineptitude of our offense.

I thought it was clear at the end of 2005 that it wasn't neccessarily Gibbs' offense that wasn't working it was injuries and the lack of talent at WR that hurt us. Everyone was hurt. Brunell, Portis, Moss, Thomas on IR, Patten, etc.

Am I the only person who thought that Gibbs' offense was fine but it just needed some help (more talent) in the passing game? After all, Portis broke the franchise yards record, Santana did the same and (I think) Cooley broke some TE record. So the year after that he hires Saunders?

The 05 offense was a smash your face in offense where the gimmick plays actually worked because they were rarely called. I remember so many plays where you'd see (insert OL name here) down the field blowing people up. Very much a Gibbs trademark.

The 06 and 07 offenses seem to be gimmick heavy. I'm not sure I really understand the timing routes that Saunders uses in the passing game. Everyone knows you have to throw it to a spot that gives only a WR a chance to come down with the ball. What I'm having trouble figuring out is whether Saunders is asking his QB's to throw a blind pass. I would think that you can watch the safeties, check down, find a receiver, lead the receiver and throw the ball all while knowing where they're supposed to be and when they're supposed to be there without having to throw blind. No QB is going to throw a pass where he isn't looking so I'm not sure I ever understood Saunders' explanation of that. It's entirely possible that I completely misunderstood him.

I brought that up because I'm amazed that not one of our WR's has caught a TD. Something aint right...

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:16 pm
by SkinsJock
Justice Hog wrote:I'm just happy to hear that the whole offensive unit is standing up and acknowledging that they suck right now...and they all know something needs to be done.

That's the first step, folks.

Let's see what they do with it!

Keeping my fingers crossed.....


agreed JH - this sounds to me like an attitude adjustment and I hope the guys on the field respond to the "suggestion" from Bugel - we need everyone to keep focused and to make sure they are giving it all on each and every play or they will not be here.

For those that are reading anything into this article that suggests that Gibbs and the coaches and players have no faith in Saunders and his play-calling , I think that is a stretch - this only indicates a refocus on basics and I do believe that Gibbs will continue to be a part of the game planning but that Saunders will continue to call the plays as he has done - My 2 cents

This team is at 4-3 with a very good chance to be 5-3 - this was a bad loss but it is only 1 loss and to a really great team - we have some issues but we just need to beat the teams we should beat each week and we will be in the playoffs - we are not a super team but we are a top 5 NFC team and we should start to play like it.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:28 pm
by CanesSkins26
I thought it was clear at the end of 2005 that it wasn't neccessarily Gibbs' offense that wasn't working it was injuries and the lack of talent at WR that hurt us. Everyone was hurt. Brunell, Portis, Moss, Thomas on IR, Patten, etc.

Am I the only person who thought that Gibbs' offense was fine but it just needed some help (more talent) in the passing game? After all, Portis broke the franchise yards record, Santana did the same and (I think) Cooley broke some TE record. So the year after that he hires Saunders?

The 05 offense was a smash your face in offense where the gimmick plays actually worked because they were rarely called. I remember so many plays where you'd see (insert OL name here) down the field blowing people up. Very much a Gibbs trademark.


I think one of the main reasons that we had so many injuries, especially to CP, was because of the Gibbs smash mouth offense. Portis was getting knocked around and there is no way that a running back in today's NFL can stay healthy for a full 16 games and potentially the playoffs running up the middle 20+ times a game. Defensive players are just too big and physical nowadays.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:47 pm
by crazyhorse1
Redskin in Canada wrote:I do not care about the negative attitudes of many. I am REALLY motiated to watch the game on SUNDAY.

The match between Saunders/Gibbs has not worked well at all. I am delighted with making things simpler. That's who we are. I am delighted with the player's attitude.

Joe Bugel, I love you man. :twisted:


We are a team that averages less than 3 yards a carry on the ground. We are also an injured team with half our OL gone and our best back both sub par and banged up. Gibbs and Co. are absolutely out of their minds.

Where do we get these big-time thinkers? Answer: from the nineties.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:52 pm
by crazyhorse1
wbbradb wrote:
roybus14 wrote:Well, they might as well fire Al Saunders. This is their way of saying Al Saunders' offense does not work.

Exactly right. Saunders is now out of the loop it seems, thank God! Hopefully, this means Gibbs will take over the playcalling. I know a lot of people on this board don't feel that way, and a lot of people would rather have Saunders than Gibbs, but not me.

In fact, I think that this change will actually "open up" the offense a little. We'll see more deep bombs, *much* more play action, and generally more scoring. Gibbs wants BALANCE more than anything. Whatever Saunders created in KC, he couldn't do it here. It's done. Maybe that's because the players didn't fully buy into his system, maybe it's because he couldn't get the right kinds of players to fit the system, whatever. This is really the best news we've had all week. Injuries to the offensive line will make it difficult, but run blocking is easier (mentally) than pass blocking and having to pick up blitzes from all over the place. Play action will help slow up pressure to the QB. This is good news people!


I love the logic: pick out what you do the worse and go with that. We've proven we can't run the ball consistently, even with the starters, and now that we've proven we can't run the ball at all without them, you think going to the running game is good news. In what world are you living?