The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Just wanted everyones thoughts on something I was pondering earlier today.

With Monk never getting true consideration for the HOF and many retired Skins coming up for consideration...(Grimm, Clark, Butz, Moseley, Jacoby, Mann) ________________ <--Add yours here

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

It just seems that we don't get credit for being a dynasty because our Super Bowl Championships were broken up and many in the press do not give our GREAT football players the recognition they deserve.

Redskin In Canada makes this argument every year, and it's certainly possible. There is no valid reason to not let him in, but perhaps success would be a good excuse for the idiots voting against him to change their minds without admitting they're wrong.

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

No. Some vote against Monk because they don't like Snyder. Some, because Monk is not a shameless self-promoter, and doesn't suck up. Some because they are common villiage idiots.

You can't cure stupidity. This will not improve until the electors are chosen from the ranks of active and retired coaches, a group of senior active and retired players selected by the NFLPA, and current hall of fame players. The press has no business with this power.

Countertrey wrote:

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

No. Some vote against Monk because they don't like Snyder. Some, because Monk is not a shameless self-promoter, and doesn't suck up. Some because they are common village idiots.

You can't cure stupidity. This will not improve until the electors are chosen from the ranks of active and retired coaches, a group of senior active and retired players selected by the NFLPA, and current hall of fame players. The press has no business with this power.

Fios wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

No. Some vote against Monk because they don't like Snyder. Some, because Monk is not a shameless self-promoter, and doesn't suck up. Some because they are common village idiots.

You can't cure stupidity. This will not improve until the electors are chosen from the ranks of active and retired coaches, a group of senior active and retired players selected by the NFLPA, and current hall of fame players. The press has no business with this power.

I'll second that. Players like Dave Butz and Charles Mann were the ultimate class acts, both on and off the field. Being a class act gets you nowhere with the sportwriters. If they can't ride your mouth every time they need something to write about then they give no consideration to onfield accomplishments or character. It's OK to be a criminal, an alcoholic, or a druggie as long as you give them something to print. I truly believe it became the Hall Of Shame the day they elected Michael Irvin, while Art Monk remains hatted upon.

Only because I think the argument becomes too much of a "I hate Irvin" thing when we have this discussion, I think it is important to acknowledge Irvin deserves his HOF spot. Off-field incidents shouldn't play too large a role in my opinion, it's the on-field accomplishments that should be used to determine someone's worthiness. And, by that criteria, it is inexcusable that Monk is not in.

Fios wrote:Only because I think the argument becomes too much of a "I hate Irvin" thing when we have this discussion, I think it is important to acknowledge Irvin deserves his HOF spot. Off-field incidents shouldn't play too large a role in my opinion, it's the on-field accomplishments that should be used to determine someone's worthiness. And, by that criteria, it is inexcusable that Monk is not in.

That might be a fair assessment, but Irvin had Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith for most of his career. Art Monk had so many different quarterbacks, running backs, and receiver combinations I've lost track. I won't say Irvin doesn't deserve to be in but I will say that if Irvin deserves to be in, so do a lot of other players who, in my opinion, had equal or better on-the-field accomplishments.

Fios wrote:Only because I think the argument becomes too much of a "I hate Irvin" thing when we have this discussion, I think it is important to acknowledge Irvin deserves his HOF spot. Off-field incidents shouldn't play too large a role in my opinion, it's the on-field accomplishments that should be used to determine someone's worthiness. And, by that criteria, it is inexcusable that Monk is not in.

Look, I absolutely agree... Irvin is a Hall of Fame player, and SHOULD be there. My problem with his presence, however, points out the completly cynical and hypocritical measures used by the likes of Peter King. I absoulutely believe that the following senario occured in his tiny little mind as the question of Irvin's eligibility came to the fore of his petty awareness...

"I have long denegrated the accomplishments of Art Monk as not worthy of the Hall, based upon a number of completely specious personal criteria;''

It is becoming clear to me that my boy, Mike "powdernose" Irvin has career statistics which, if I apply the same standard I have applied to Monk, would not permit me to vote for Irvin (nevermind that they would exclude the majority of receivers in the hall);

Therefore, I must modify my stance on this issue, at least for presentation to the public, so that I may vote for powdernose in good conscience.

I will then vote for powdernose, and against Monk, and no one will know the better" I don't doubt that he even lobbied his ignorant buds to do the same.

Art Monk should have been in LONG BEFORE Irvin. That he is still not in is both a travesty, and a personal insult to one of the finest men ever to play the game.

End of story.

Countertrey wrote:

Fios wrote:Only because I think the argument becomes too much of a "I hate Irvin" thing when we have this discussion, I think it is important to acknowledge Irvin deserves his HOF spot. Off-field incidents shouldn't play too large a role in my opinion, it's the on-field accomplishments that should be used to determine someone's worthiness. And, by that criteria, it is inexcusable that Monk is not in.

Look, I absolutely agree... Irvin is a Hall of Fame player, and SHOULD be there. My problem with his presence, however, points out the completly cynical and hypocritical measures used by the likes of Peter King. I absoulutely believe that the following senario occured in his tiny little mind as the question of Irvin's eligibility came to the fore of his petty awareness...

"I have long denegrated the accomplishments of Art Monk as not worthy of the Hall, based upon a number of completely specious personal criteria;''

It is becoming clear to me that my boy, Mike "powdernose" Irvin has career statistics which, if I apply the same standard I have applied to Monk, would not permit me to vote for Irvin (nevermind that they would exclude the majority of receivers in the hall);

Therefore, I must modify my stance on this issue, at least for presentation to the public, so that I may vote for powdernose in good conscience.

I will then vote for powdernose, and against Monk, and no one will know the better" I don't doubt that he even lobbied his ignorant buds to do the same.

Art Monk should have been in LONG BEFORE Irvin. That he is still not in is both a travesty, and a personal insult to one of the finest men ever to play the game.

End of story.

I'm w/you all the way on that!!!! Peter King is a P.O.S.!! Just for the hell of it I'm going to throw out these players and there numbers....these guys are in Canton and for the life of me I can't understand why Art isn't there and why even Gary Clark isn't even mentioned, IT'S CRAZY AND B.S.!!! Check it out......Steve Largent=819(rec)=13,089(yds)=16.0(ypc)=100(td)....Michael Irvin=750(rec)=11,904(yds)=15.9(ypc)=65(td)....Fred Bilentnikoff=589(rec)=8,974(yds)=15.2(ypc)=76(td).........AND THEN THERE'S THESE TWO??? John Stallworth=537(rec)=8,723(yds)=16.2(ypc)=63(td)....Lynn Swann=336(rec)=5,462(yds)=16.3(ypc)=51(td).......W.T.F. Why???? That's what I want know........Check out Art and Gary's numbers, they don't lie!....Art Monk=940(rec)=12,721(yds)=13.5(ypc)=68(td)....Gary Clark=699(rec)=10,856(yds)=15.5(ypc)=65(td).......Stallworth, Swann, there in w/those pathetic numbers and my boys aren't??? they won Superbowls too!!!!

JansenFan wrote:Redskin In Canada makes this argument every year, and it's certainly possible. There is no valid reason to not let him in, but perhaps success would be a good excuse for the idiots voting against him to change their minds without admitting they're wrong.

Thanks. You saved me the post. And the time left of Joe with us as a coach is getting a bit short for that to happen.

Frankly, I came to the conclusion that, in my heart, Art is the best there ever was in my time.

HardDawg wrote:Just wanted everyones thoughts on something I was pondering earlier today.

With Monk never getting true consideration for the HOF and many retired Skins coming up for consideration...(Grimm, Clark, Butz, Moseley, Jacoby, Mann) ________________ <--Add yours here

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

It just seems that we don't get credit for being a dynasty because our Super Bowl Championships were broken up and many in the press do not give our GREAT football players the recognition they deserve.

ummmm Isnt Mr Green up also?????

HardDawg wrote:Just wanted everyones thoughts on something I was pondering earlier today.

With Monk never getting true consideration for the HOF and many retired Skins coming up for consideration...(Grimm, Clark, Butz, Moseley, Jacoby, Mann) ________________ <--Add yours here

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

It just seems that we don't get credit for being a dynasty because our Super Bowl Championships were broken up and many in the press do not give our GREAT football players the recognition they deserve.

What does any Cowgirl have to do with this?

DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

HardDawg wrote:DO any of you think there is a direct correlation between how well our team does in the current season and who is FINALLY selected for the HOF?

No.

Issue #1 - all appointments are of the open-end variety and can be terminated only by retirement or resignation.

Issue #2 - Of 44 voters, only 3 are from NFC East locations.

Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News
Carolina Charles Chandler, Charlotte Observer
Chicago Don Pierson, Chicago Tribune*
Cincinnati Chick Ludwig, Dayton Daily News
Cleveland Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
Detroit Mike O'Hara, The Detroit News
Green Bay Cliff Christl, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFX Overland Park, KS
Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald*
Minnesota Sid Hartman, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, Boston Globe
New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Vinny DiTrani, Bergen Record
New York (Jets) Paul Zimmerman, Sports Illustrated
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
San Diego Jerry Magee, San Diego Union Tribune*
San Francisco Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange*
Seattle John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington David Elfin, Washington Times
PFWA Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram
At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large Dave Goldberg, Associated Press*
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Bob Oates, Los Angeles Times
At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald*
At Large Jim Trotter, San Diego Union-Tribune