The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Anybody else watching the Rugby World Tournament?

I just watched the best match in a while between South Africa and the Kingdom of Tonga.

The finalists in my view will be from among Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.While New Zealand is my team, my sentimental favourite is Tonga. Go the All Blacks!

Who will win the Webb Ellis Trophy this year? Certainly not a team from a country located in the northern hemisphere even if the Cup is being played in France.

I say All Blacks win in the final against South Africa (but Australia might spoil the fun of both).

Sorry Jock.

New Zealand, RiC? I'm disappointed in you - that's the rugby equivalent of being a Cowboys or 49'ers fan And you have a perfectly good team of your own to support in Canada.

I'm watching some of it, but the play of the England team over the last four years has dulled my interest in the game a little. But hey, at the time of writing, we are still the World Champions.

I didn't see the South Africa v Tonga game, but I hear that the Tongans were unlucky, even having a perfectly legitimate try disallowed?

The England v Samoa game was also a super game, a little closer than I would have liked for a while, but England were definitely better than last week (well, it's difficult not to get better after that South Africa match). I won't even speculate about England's chances for the latter stages of the tournament - they will have their hands full trying to see off the Tongans next week, who are playing very well indeed.

As for the winners of the tournament, it's impossible to look beyond the Aussies, All Blacks and Springboks. New Zealand peaked 18 months ago, South Africa are beginning to play really well, and the Australians just can't be discounted when the tournaments come around.

Looks like France are just not good enough (good!), and the rest of the northern hemisphere teams are way off the pace. Too many second rate foreign players playing in our premiership (just like football) means that a lot of young talent just isn't getting the chance to develop over here.

I wish I could comment intelligently on this topic but American sports media doesn't seem to recognize Rugby as a sport, except perhaps in an occasional rolling ticker byline. We have a channel dedicated to "classic" professional wrestling and professional bull riding, with an occasional NHL hockey game thrown in for variety. I'm not even convinced American media recognizes football (what we refer to as "soccer"), other than American football, unless the U.S. Women's team happens to be competing. So, it may be a while before we are introduced to rugby. I'm still waiting for one of our sports media outlets to differentiate between American Pool and English Pocket Billiards.

Perhaps those of you who do follow Rugby could explain the similarities and differences of Rugby and American football for the rest of us.

UK Skins Fan wrote:New Zealand, RiC? I'm disappointed in you - that's the rugby equivalent of being a Cowboys or 49'ers fan And you have a perfectly good team of your own to support in Canada.

Pukes or 49ers being equivalent to the the All Blacks ??? Give me a break !!! I have been a fan since childhood through good and bad times. Iam delighted with the new coach that took over in 2002 when the team was at one of its lowest points in its history. He designed a system to put not one but two teams of starters of equal quality at each position. All positions have been paid attention to (something the Skins could learn about). While it goes without saying that I support Canada's mostly amateur players, Rugby is not Hockey. It does not mean as much to the general population. No, it is not as bad as the US but it is not Canada's game for sure.

Going back to the Tournament, enjoy the Championship title because it will certainly does not look good with the level of play of the main contenders. Samoa is a good team but certainly not an elite team. And Tonga, my goodness, your bioys are going to have their hands (knees, feet, elbows and other extremities) FULL with them.

I will be watching the game on Saturday with a bunch of Tongan friends and Tonga is my sentimental favourite. So, your team is going to have to play at its very top of its game just to go on to the next round. Experience might be on England's side but physical ability is certainly on the side of Tonga. Call me a coward but I would not wish to be a running back of any team going against Tonga. Then again is the World Cup and I am sure no team has weaklings in those positions. Let's hope for an intense game on Saturday.

I awould be astnished if the Championship does not go to South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. South Africa played -fantastic- against Tonga to keep the win in the last play of the game (sounds familiar? ) The timing, intensity and physical ability shown by the Springboks is amazing. Only to be matched by the Wallabies and the All Blacks. Those should be REAL matches.

Who in the second level might become a surprise at this tournament? Tonga, the winner of Wales v. Fiji. Those Red Lions are playing pretty well if you ask me.

Who will disappoint at this tournment? France

Who is over-rated and just seating in a nice soft group? Argentina.

GSPODS wrote:Perhaps those of you who do follow Rugby could explain the similarities and differences of Rugby and American football for the rest of us.

No offense intended.

Think of the NFL playoffs but TWICE as intense and physical.

Think of the Superbowl as being -really- a World event.

Think of the most electrifying atmosphere in the NFL and multiply it by TWO.

Think of the national pride at stake in the (Soccer) World Cup and multiply it by TWO.

There is no comparison between the intensity ON and OFF the field between this Tournament and no other on earth.

Teams really go to battle it out in this Cup. It is amazing.

Actually, some might argue against me. But when our Redskins are doing so poorly for the last, say, decade or so. The Well Ellis Trophy competion is the ONLY way out to avoid madness and frustration. You can call it anger management.

No offense taken.

I wish I could comment intelligently on this topic but American sports media doesn't seem to recognize Rugby as a sport, except perhaps in an occasional rolling ticker byline.

At home, I have Setanta on my direct tv, I got it to follow the English Primer League, but they show a ton of rugby and cricket matches as well. Even after a good try, cricket still baffles me, but rugby is a fun game to watch and I agree it is a shame it does not get more press in the States.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I will be watching the game on Saturday with a bunch of Tongan friends and Tonga is my sentimental favourite...

Let's hope for an intense game on Saturday.

Well, unless you're planning on watching a recording, then you'd better be tuned in a day earlier than planned, because the game is at 8pm (British Summer Time) on Friday.

Supported the All Blacks through good times and the bad? When were the bad times, please remind me? Apart, of course, from every fourth year, when they panic and blow the World Cup, despite being overwhelming favourites.

I will agree about this weekend's game - I don't think England even go into the game as favourites. They have shown an inability to execute the gameplan, and their handling in open play is appalling. Basic skills are lacking, and the Tongans should go in to the game with confidence. The test for Tonga will be if they realise that they really do have a good chance, and how they handle that. It's easier for teams that just play the underdog role - never any pressure. Let's see whether they rise up or fold up on Friday.

On a different subject, did anyone see the game between Scotland and New Zealand yesterday on Sunday? Here we have two teams, one famed for playing in black, and the other who play in dark navy blue. Obviously, a potential clash of colours, right?

So, New Zealand wear their change strip of grey and black.

And Scotland wear their change strip of grey and navy blue!

Madness - almost impossible to know which team had the ball at any one time. Presumably, the colours were worn for commercial reasons - neither of these two strips were seen before the World Cup, and it's obviously a marketing ploy. But it must have made it difficult for the referee to spot infringements and to penalise the offending team. This is the Rugby World Cup, and the sport really should come first, not marketing.

UK Skins Fan wrote:Well, unless you're planning on watching a recording, then you'd better be tuned in a day earlier than planned, because the game is at 8pm (British Summer Time) on Friday.

Do not argue with me, it will be Saturday in -my- time zone.

Supported the All Blacks through good times and the bad? When were the bad times, please remind me? Apart, of course, from every fourth year, when they panic and blow the World Cup, despite being overwhelming favourites.

Just nasty. I could and probably should answer but I will not. I only have to count championships.

I will agree about this weekend's game - I don't think England even go into the game as favourites.

No, surprisingly, the World Champs do not. But the team's spirit and experience is not being underestimated by the Tongans. It -will- be a hard fought game. The entire population of the whole archipelagic Pacific Kingdom will stop -ALL- activities to watch the game ...

... all 109,823 of them.

UK Skins Fan wrote:Madness - almost impossible to know which team had the ball at any one time.

Considering the final score, Scotland shared your view.


I like Scotland a lot. Do not get me wrong. I just feel that the top teams are playing on a league of their own, kind of like the AFC Colts and Patriots against the NFC in all cardinal directions. Did anybody see what Australia did to Fiji ??? And Fiji is not a bad team !!!

I grew up in Fiji They love their rugby and the annual game between Fiji and Tonga is a war.

I agree though about the power teams - the 3 "down under" teams are all playing well and their preparation through both tests against the Northern Hemisphere teams and the Tri-Nations prepares them better for this, the ultimate challenge - The Wallabies would love to have England in the next round because England beat them to win the last World Cup but they are going to have their hands full on Friday (or Saturday!) with the Tongans.

The Rugby World Cup is one of the most followed events in sports and trails only the Soccer World Cup and the Olympic Games for viewing numbers.

I still enjoy watching a good rugby game and am sure that most who are not familiar with the game would pick it up pretty quickly - One thing that is enjoyable is watching a game that does not stop for advertisements or timeouts - there are 40 minutes of non-stop action to each half and players stay on the field unless they are injured.

SkinsJock wrote: I grew up in Fiji

Suva?

What a beautiful and intersting place to grow up in. I like the cosmopolitan aspect of the city. It is a place where diversity is accepted. Some of the best Polynesian, Chinese and Australian/NZ food to be had in the region for sure. How about a holiday in The Fijian?

The Wallabies would love to have England in the next round because England beat them to win the last World Cup but they are going to have their hands full on Friday (or Saturday!) with the Tongans.

SkinsJock wrote:I still enjoy watching a good rugby game and am sure that most who are not familiar with the game would pick it up pretty quickly - One thing that is enjoyable is watching a game that does not stop for advertisements or timeouts - there are 40 minutes of non-stop action to each half and players stay on the field unless they are injured.

No, no and no. We have to put it in terms that we all have in common. Guys, think of the World of Rugby as the old NFL was:

There are no greedy owners, there is no free agency, the players would die for their team and pride in their national colours, loyalty to the team and by the team has true meaning, advertisement and commercialisation have not killed the game (yet), fellow players are brothers-in-arms, and you TRULY hate your opponent/enemy. Rivalries are real and stories about victories and defeats linger in the minds of fans over several -generations-. Coaches lead and players leave blood and skin on the field. Yes, really.

It is just like the old NFL but without protection gear and without calls for unneccessary roughness. Go ahead and have a look at the .
MAIN WEB SITE OF THE CUP,

Go white and red on Friday (or Saturday) !!!

I see metal spikes and no pads ... I'm liking this already.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Do not argue with me, it will be Saturday in -my- time zone.

That's cool - you have your own timezone?

Just nasty. I could and probably should answer but I will not. I only have to count championships.

Feel free to go ahead and count. I think you'll find that England's ONE World Championship is just a little more recent than New Zealand's, which was won shortly after man discovered fire. Both nations have also qualified for the same number of finals.

On a different note, here is a blog from a BBC man that I happen to agree with 100% (well, when he gets to the point anyway). And I do feel the need to say at this point that I really don't dislike the New Zealand rugby team. At least, no more than I dislike the French, Australian, South African, Welsh and Scottish teams.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/rugbyworldcup/2007/09/hacked_off_with_the_haka_1.html

And this is the bit where he gets to the point:

I have said for a while (and heard it said by plenty of others) that the All Blacks should not be allowed to perform the Haka after the anthems.

I love the sight and sound of the Haka but should they always have the final say, psychologically, before kick-off? As if they need it.

They certainly shouldn't get offended if opposing teams choose to face it in their own way, ignore it, throw a blade of grass in the wrong direction or request, as the Welsh did, that they might be allowed to respond with their own anthem.

And they lose any argument they have for doing it on the grounds that it is traditional when they perform their all-new Haka, thankfully without the throat slitting gesture, as they did once again at Murrayfield.

What, so now you're allowed to perform any choreographed routine before the game? I look forward to the Lambada from Andrew Sheridan and George Chuter.

SkinsJock wrote:I still enjoy watching a good rugby game and am sure that most who are not familiar with the game would pick it up pretty quickly - One thing that is enjoyable is watching a game that does not stop for advertisements or timeouts - there are 40 minutes of non-stop action to each half and players stay on the field unless they are injured.

I especially enjoy that aspect of the sport as well. One aspect of the Rugby game clock I enjoy is that there are no pauses as the game climaxes, and teams often have to improvise their way to victory. I think that basketball is at the other extreme, where the last 20 seconds of the game can take as long to play as the 4 minutes of game clock preceding it. Football is somewhere in the middle.

American football has consistently moved towards the specialization of players' abilities and tactical precision in the game planning / implementation. The game's focus on down, yardage, and individual plays has unfortunately had the side effect of lots of time outs and commercial breaks.

I won't lie that this combination makes me want to throw something at the TV: Time out (commericals), 2 plays then a field goal (commercials), kickoff (commercials), 1 or 2 plays then the 2:00 minute warning (commericals). . .Then they have the nerve to call each set of commercials a "break", when the real break in those situations is just seeing the game played.

UK Skins Fan wrote:And this is the bit where he gets to the point:

New Zealand is not the only Polynesian team with a Haka. Samoa, for example, has its own version. It is a cultural thing.

Having said so, intimidation both in its physical and psychological aspects is at the core of the game. I do LOVE what the Springboks do in front of the All Blacks. Pretty intimidating if you ask me.

In any event, it beats the trash talk and spitting in the NFL and the head butts in the Soccer World cup. I have no problem with it. But I would argue that other teams are free to respond in -whatever- form they wish.

Most fans love it anyway, probably not the opponents and their fans at the moment but that is the purpose of it.

Blinkin' flip! What were Scotland doing wearing bad Spiderman outfits?

Interesting perspective on the potential future of Rugby in the USA ...

Eagles look to awaken 'sleeping giant'
(Rugby News Service) Wednesday 26 September 2007
By Martin Seldes
From Saint-Etienne

SAINT-ETIENNE, 25 September - USA coach Peter Thorburn hopes the IRB Rugby World Cup will help catapult the sport into the mainstream.

"It has always been the sleeping giant," he said. "I believe that it will reach its potential in the next four or five years, and in eight will be part of the tier one (the best 10 teams in the world)."

Thorburn believes there is a place for rugby alongside the top sports of basketball, American football, ice hockey and baseball.

"They (the American public) love physicality in their sports, lots of action, and rugby is also a multi-skill game. I know that if they see it for the first time, they will like it."

Developing a talent pool

Thorburn is aware boosting the profile of rugby is no easy task. He stressed the need to develop professional rugby and early athlete development programmes, increasing the pool of talent.

"If you don't have the right materials, you can't build a house. It is the same with rugby," he said.

"We have to create a professional league in the country so young players will start playing.

"We can't be in the rugby world cup with only five professional players and face teams like Tonga, that has 18 professionals out of the 22 that played against us."

Televising matches

Having more televised rugby is the key to pushing it into the realm of mainstream sports, Thorburn said.

"More people means more money and sponsors. Money is the oil that makes the wheel of world rugby work," he said.

The USA is also a specific market, addicted to success in their sporting teams. "No one likes a team that loses. The Americans like winners," he said.

The chance for USA rugby to grow won't last forever, with Thorburn believing his current eight-year vision is crucial. In other words, the chance must be grasped now.

"If not it will definitely fall asleep and it won't have a future," he said.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/ ... ping+giant

I think that the market is there for it. Hell, we've got an up-and-running professional outdoor lacrosse league, which is even more of a niche sport than rugby.

Well, I'd watch pro rugby, anyway.

Next game: England v. Tonga. Winner eliminates the loser from the next round.

To put the match into perspective: England is currently ranked 7th and Tonga 12th in the world.

They have only played in the Rugby World Cup once before in 1999 and the result was ... 101 - 10 for England

A totally one-sided game on paper. Let's watch it.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Next game: England v. Tonga. Winner eliminates the loser from the next round.

To put the match into perspective: England is currently ranked 7th and Tonga 12th in the world.

They have only played in the Rugby World Cup once before in 1999 and the result was ... 101 - 10 for England

A totally one-sided game on paper. Let's watch it.

Not a one sided game on paper at all - not when considering the recent form of the two teams. One is a team on the rise, and the other is a former powerhouse declining. This should be a very tight game.

I think you're trying to set up the Tongans as greater underdogs than they really are!

UK Skins Fan wrote:Not a one sided game on paper at all - not when considering the recent form of the two teams. One is a team on the rise, and the other is a former powerhouse declining. This should be a very tight game.

I think you're trying to set up the Tongans as greater underdogs than they really are!

Are we competing to make our team look less strong than it actually is???

England is the RWC Champion. They have had a few questionable games based on sloppy execution and mediocre game planning. BUT all of this could change in a game like this one.

I agree that it can be a tight game. It will most certainly be hard-fought. It will be a joy to watch. Here to a great game !!!

Well, the English rugby team have done a fine job of lowering expectations over the last 4 years. It's not just a couple of questionable performances, and a diabolical one, in this World Cup - it's a pattern of mediocrity ever since that World Cup was won. So, I'm keen to make people appreciate just how far the English national team has fallen in four years.

And anybody with Tonga in their heart certainly wouldn't want them to be anything other than an underdog, because that is where they feel comfortable.

Here's to a great game indeed - enjoy!