The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Redskins have serious holes, IMO at wide receiver and defensive line.

Lately two big talents at those positions have been available for almost nothing:

DT Gerard Warren

2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 71 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Warren has great size to play in the interior defensive line. He has very good athletic ability, but his size might hinder his ability to use his skills to the utmost. He has very good strength and is capable of being a two-gap, control type of player. He has decent foot quickness and decent running ability, but he is somewhat inconsistent in his ability to get off on the snap and is frequently late off the ball. He shows the ability to hold up on the line of scrimmage and does not get knocked off the ball, but he has poor use of his hands in shedding and does not redirect to the ball well. On occasion he will come off the ball and drive upfield, knock hands down and do a great job of pushing the pocket, but you don't see him do that with any consistency. He does a good job overall with play recognition, but he lacks lateral movement and change-of-direction skills and is a poor effort kind of guy. He rarely gets involved in chase, and he appears to wear down quickly. With all of his size and athletic ability, he is not a dominant player and takes too many plays off.

-----

WR Robert Ferguson

2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 73 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Ferguson is big, physical and smooth. He is athletic, quick and has a nice burst off the ball. He has improved as a route runner over the years and now consistently creates separation coming out of his cuts. He will snatch the ball away from his body and compete for high throws. He isn't afraid to go get balls in traffic. He has the size and the strength to push off against the jam and is tough to hold up in press coverage. He works better against zones but is effective enough pushing off against tight man-to-man coverage. He is competitive and works very hard as a downfield blocker. But Ferguson lacks ideal vertical speed and can be inconsistent. He won't create separation on vertical routes, flash after the catch or make many big plays. He has some lapses in concentration and suffers drops.

They are both rated as "Good starters" and they both seem to have enough talent to start on or at least contribute significantly to the Redskins.

Why didn't we go after them?

PFW says:

• The Redskins have been quietly happy with their defensive line, a trouble spot in 2006, to this point. DT Joe Salave'a looks like his old self after a down season, DE Phillip Daniels appears strong enough to handle moving inside on passing downs, and DT Kedric Golston has been good in camp drills.

I guess I can buy that... if the Redskins think that Salave'a is back, and Golston is a legit starter... and maybe is Wynn and Evans are solid backups... I would still feel that Warren would be an excellent backup or member of the rotation...

What about Ferguson? IMO he seems much better than Pinkston or Bradford. He's got a lot of talent and could probably even become the #2 receiver it seems very odd that the Skins didn't go after him.

Why wouldn't they want either of these players? because they scouted them poorly (or their own guys well), because they have financial trouble, or did they just miss an opportunity?

I can understand not going after Warren. Even though I think that our oline is average at best, Warren has a reputation for not staying in shape and taking plays off during games. Probably not the type of player that we want. However, I don't quite understand why we didn't go after Ferguson. He has been a solid player in the NFL and probably could compete for our #2 receiver position.

I'm going to go with they didn't want them but that's just me

Ferguson is injury prone too. So the Redskins did well not signing these 2.

Really can't say that I am sorry neither is going to be here. I just do not agree with your assessment that either could be better than what we will end up with here.

Both have too many "flags" IMO

Fios wrote:I'm going to go with they didn't want them but that's just me

Dude, you kill me.

Fios wrote:I'm going to go with they didn't want them but that's just me

The point of the thread has gone completely over your head.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Why wouldn't they want either of these players?

Maybe because:

1) they disagree with the fundamental premises made in your post; or

2) they disagree with the logic of your case; or

3) Fios is right; or

4) All of the above.

I am not saying you are wrong. I am just giving several potential options.

Peace,

RiC

Skinsfan55 wrote:

Fios wrote:I'm going to go with they didn't want them but that's just me

The point of the thread has gone completely over your head.

Or has it?

SF55 wrote:Why didn't we go after them?

same reason they didn't go after kellen winslow jr.
they are coaches, we are fans. they get paid.... we don't. they know what they are looking for, we don't. everything happens for a reason.

Fios wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:

Fios wrote:I'm going to go with they didn't want them but that's just me

The point of the thread has gone completely over your head.

Or has it?

Yeah, it could have gone IN in considering there's a hole on top.

As far as this thread goes, Warren maybe had two good years in Cleveland and Ferguson is decent at best.

They would have not made large impacts on the team and I wouldn't consider them big talents.

And if they're so good then how come their grades aren't better then a 73?

The grades aren't like in school, 80+ is an elite player. Early 70's means you're a good NFL starter.

The Redskins only have 11 players who rank higher than 73 and Griffin is ranked 74 with Lloyd and ARE ranked 72 and 73 respectively

... and if we had signed both players, these very same people would be on a rant about how our front office always overpays for mediocre talent, or because we didn't need these guys and should be grooming our own young talent at those positions. I have the script, I'll send you a copy.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Why wouldn't they want either of these players?

Maybe because:

(snip)

3) Fios is right

Ummm... has that ever happened before? If it has, was it considered an omen that the end is near?

Skinsfan55 wrote:The grades aren't like in school, 80+ is an elite player. Early 70's means you're a good NFL starter.

The Redskins only have 11 players who rank higher than 73 and Griffin is ranked 74 with Lloyd and ARE ranked 72 and 73 respectively

well, you said you could understand the d-line thing, and the grade thing applying, why should the FO go after another #3 receiver, when we already have 4 on the roster.(are, lloyd, thrash, pinkston) ??

hailskins666 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:The grades aren't like in school, 80+ is an elite player. Early 70's means you're a good NFL starter.

The Redskins only have 11 players who rank higher than 73 and Griffin is ranked 74 with Lloyd and ARE ranked 72 and 73 respectively

well, you said you could understand the d-line thing, and the grade thing applying, why should the FO go after another #3 receiver, when we already have 4 on the roster.(are, lloyd, thrash, pinkston) ??

The ranking is based on where the player is now, but it's assumed that Ferguson has potential. IMO that's the kind of guy who I think is worth taking a look at in training camp, a dependable NFL starter with potential to be better.

Either that or a decent DT with flashes of brilliance you could plug into a D-line rotation.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:The grades aren't like in school, 80+ is an elite player. Early 70's means you're a good NFL starter.

The Redskins only have 11 players who rank higher than 73 and Griffin is ranked 74 with Lloyd and ARE ranked 72 and 73 respectively

well, you said you could understand the d-line thing, and the grade thing applying, why should the FO go after another #3 receiver, when we already have 4 on the roster.(are, lloyd, thrash, pinkston) ??

The ranking is based on where the player is now, but it's assumed that Ferguson has potential. IMO that's the kind of guy who I think is worth taking a look at in training camp, a dependable NFL starter with potential to be better.

Either that or a decent DT with flashes of brilliance you could plug into a D-line rotation.

Who , other than you, is saying we have major 'holes' at wide receiver? Moss, Lloyd, ARE, Thrash., Pinkston...with some young guys in the mix. Why sign an injury prone guy like Ferguson??

As for DT...since when has that been a position of need? Goldston and Montgomery are solid young players, Griffin and Salevea are talented experienced players. We are playing Washington as a rush end more this year and moving Daniels to DT in some formations.

Why do we need Gerard Warren especially as much as GW rotates our D Line. Now if you asaid Offensive line depth, then maybe.

Skinsfan55 wrote:The ranking is based on where the player is now, but it's assumed that Ferguson has potential. IMO that's the kind of guy who I think is worth taking a look at in training camp, a dependable NFL starter with potential to be better.

end of discussion. every receiver i just listed, has more 'potential' than ferguson. they are ON an nfl roster, fergy isn't.

Either that or a decent DT with flashes of brilliance you could plug into a D-line rotation.

jeff george 'flashed' brilliance at times. so did rod gardner.... at times.

hailskins666 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:The ranking is based on where the player is now, but it's assumed that Ferguson has potential. IMO that's the kind of guy who I think is worth taking a look at in training camp, a dependable NFL starter with potential to be better.

end of discussion. every receiver i just listed, has more 'potential' than ferguson. they are ON an nfl roster, fergy isn't.

Either that or a decent DT with flashes of brilliance you could plug into a D-line rotation.

jeff george 'flashed' brilliance at times. so did rod gardner.... at times.

^^^ I agree, this guy knows his stuff.

Skinsfan55 wrote:The Redskins have serious holes, IMO at wide receiver and defensive line.

Lately two big talents at those positions have been available for almost nothing:

DT Gerard Warren

2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 71 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Warren has great size to play in the interior defensive line. He has very good athletic ability, but his size might hinder his ability to use his skills to the utmost. He has very good strength and is capable of being a two-gap, control type of player. He has decent foot quickness and decent running ability, but he is somewhat inconsistent in his ability to get off on the snap and is frequently late off the ball. He shows the ability to hold up on the line of scrimmage and does not get knocked off the ball, but he has poor use of his hands in shedding and does not redirect to the ball well. On occasion he will come off the ball and drive upfield, knock hands down and do a great job of pushing the pocket, but you don't see him do that with any consistency. He does a good job overall with play recognition, but he lacks lateral movement and change-of-direction skills and is a poor effort kind of guy. He rarely gets involved in chase, and he appears to wear down quickly. With all of his size and athletic ability, he is not a dominant player and takes too many plays off.

-----

WR Robert Ferguson

2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 73 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Ferguson is big, physical and smooth. He is athletic, quick and has a nice burst off the ball. He has improved as a route runner over the years and now consistently creates separation coming out of his cuts. He will snatch the ball away from his body and compete for high throws. He isn't afraid to go get balls in traffic. He has the size and the strength to push off against the jam and is tough to hold up in press coverage. He works better against zones but is effective enough pushing off against tight man-to-man coverage. He is competitive and works very hard as a downfield blocker. But Ferguson lacks ideal vertical speed and can be inconsistent. He won't create separation on vertical routes, flash after the catch or make many big plays. He has some lapses in concentration and suffers drops.

They are both rated as "Good starters" and they both seem to have enough talent to start on or at least contribute significantly to the Redskins.

Why didn't we go after them?

PFW says:

• The Redskins have been quietly happy with their defensive line, a trouble spot in 2006, to this point. DT Joe Salave'a looks like his old self after a down season, DE Phillip Daniels appears strong enough to handle moving inside on passing downs, and DT Kedric Golston has been good in camp drills.

I guess I can buy that... if the Redskins think that Salave'a is back, and Golston is a legit starter... and maybe is Wynn and Evans are solid backups... I would still feel that Warren would be an excellent backup or member of the rotation...

What about Ferguson? IMO he seems much better than Pinkston or Bradford. He's got a lot of talent and could probably even become the #2 receiver it seems very odd that the Skins didn't go after him.

Why wouldn't they want either of these players? because they scouted them poorly (or their own guys well), because they have financial trouble, or did they just miss an opportunity?

waaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaa sound like my baby girl dude chill out give them a chance before u write the season off please stop or does Daddy need to give you a Binkie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lord gibbs, save the personal attacks for the smack forum. please and thanks.

With the way the FO and coaches have been handling things, I wouldn't put anything past them. I don't realy know much about the two players in question, so I cannot comment on them. The only thing I can say is that I don't know their names.

Skinsfan55 wrote:The Redskins have serious holes, IMO at wide receiver and defensive line.

Why wouldn't they want either of these players? because they scouted them poorly (or their own guys well), because they have financial trouble, or did they just miss an opportunity?

Because the Redskins FO and Coaches in THO (Their honest opinion) don't think they have holes at receiver and defensive line?

Maybe the FO has determined that Warren and Ferguson won't fit their system well?

Maybe the FO feels they're too expensive for backups, since that's what they'll both be? Seriously, why would you think he's a capable #2, when he had 5 catches for 31 yards last year (and a TD). His best year, with Brett Stinking Favre as his QB, was 38 catches for 520 yards? ARE and Lloyd had similar years last year, with Mark Brunell...

And as for potential to get better, Ferguson is a 7 year vet, and will be 28 in December. He's the same age as Randle-El, but Ferguson has been in the NFL a year longer. Oh right, and ARE is still learning how to be a WR, having been a QB in college. Ferguson is 2 years older than Brandon Lloyd.

So, why would you view him as having more potential than either of those guys?

I'm happy we passed on both.. this team needs to get out of the revolving door stage .. we need to build a team to have chemistry not just a team full of rag tag players with patches here and there.. I feel like we are slowly learning this

although the whole Marshall deal kinda put a wrench in that .. EVEN though his play may have been suspect of late

hailskins666 wrote:

SF55 wrote:Why didn't we go after them?

same reason they didn't go after kellen winslow jr.
they are coaches, we are fans. they get paid.... we don't. they know what they are looking for, we don't. everything happens for a reason.

So very true. And so. from here on I think we should probably only post positive cheerleading messages on this forum. As we are only fans, we are not really entitled to opinions or criticism.