The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I know that rumors are still flying around right now, but why is Patrick Ramsey is so upset about the Brunell deal. I understand his contract is based on playing incentives but he is the one who agreed to it! He is a football player, as such, he needs to realize that this is part of the game. If he took us deep into the playoffs last year I could see his point but we were a 5-11 team last year. NOBODYS job should be sacred. I say, Patrick be a man and look at this as a time to play for one of the best coaches in the history of the game and chalk it up as a learning experience.

LAfan... I'll tell you why he is so upset about this...

Two seasons ago he was signed late, came into camp and outplayed both Danny Woeful and Shane Matthews. He earned the starting spot with a brilliant performance in Tennessee, and never looked back.

He entered last season the un-challenged starter, and without telling anyone was injured very early on. So that it wasn't a distratction, he played hurt, gutting it out each weekend. He became the team's bonefied offensive leader, and gained respect from the other 10 players in the huddle, and every fan at Fed Ex.

Last season, he was thrown on the field with little help, and without his coach knowing how the hell to protect him. He said all the right things, stood by the Ol' ball coach, and continued to take a beating. He got mugged every weekend, and continued to go out, playing hurt, but playing well. When the team didn't have a shot at the playoffs he was told to hold the clipboard, so that he didn't risk furhter injury, and could rest up for the next season.

Joe Gibbs is hired and Patrick is thrilled, calling him that day, and coming to meet him when he arrives at Redskins Park for the first time. He attended his press conference, and chatted with him on the phone. He then here's on TV that the Redskins are going after a veteran backup. He talks to Joe, and Gibbs tells him he will be the starter, and that he was bringing in someone to play behind him. He finds out again from a report that the player is Brunell, and that he would challenge Ramsey for the job. Again, he and his agent contact Gibbs, and Snyder, and come into the park for a chat. At which point he is told that he might not start, and that Brunell is going to battle it out wiht him for the starting spot in camp.

He then sees Brunell a 34 year old with bad knees and an injured elbow, signed to a deal in which he will make 9 million a season when you break it down over the 7 years, and he gets a lucrative signing bonus of worth about 9 million. Ramsey's salary isn't even 2 million, and he has been the starter for a year and a half here...

He is 24, and entering what should be the prime of his career... Now he will more than likely take the back seat to a man 11 years his elder, and not as skilled.

Would you be happy??? I sure as heck wouldn't be...

-Geepz
----------
L.A Nation

I hear what you are saying and you have some very good and valid points. I would be surprised though that he was ever promised the starting job by Joe Gibbs. Again the skins were a 5-11 team. Every position needs to be scrutinized and there should be open competions come training camp. If Ramsey is as good as you say compared to Brunell, (and I agree he has alot of upside) then he should have no problem competing with him for the job. Again this is pro sports not a popularity contest.

Ramsey was a signed to play football. So with a 5-11 record how does that justify being the starting QB with a new coach? Well in my opinion it doesnt. The guy showed he had heart and promise last year and that is why he has a future with this team. Key word is future. If we would of had someone on our roster like Brunell Patrick would be in better shape than he is right now. He still needs a year or two to develop into the QB he can and will be. Believe it or not Brunell is still a great QB even with being 33 and having weak knees. P-Ram will benefit greatly from having the chance to work with him. This has been beaten to death and we still come back to the same thing. If P-Ram wants the job then he needs to go get it. The better QB starts and that is good for our team. I dont care who likes it. The team comes first.

Sorry Redskin56 but your assertions are full of holes.

redskins56 wrote:He became the team's bonefied offensive leader, and gained respect from the other 10 players in the huddle.

Bonafide Offensive leader....what about Lav Coles? And as for gaining the offenses respect...how was that demonstrated? When none of the O-linemen came and helped him up after he held on to the ball too long?

redskins56 wrote:Last season, he was thrown on the field with little help, and without his coach knowing how the hell to protect him.

Actually our O-line is probably the most solid part of our offense. Many teams would kill to have Thomas, Jansen and Samuels on one unit! A number of those sacks came from Ramsey holding the ball too long....though admittedly not all of them. Spurriers protection schemes were horrible.

redskins56 wrote:He said all the right things, stood by the Ol' ball coach, and continued to take a beating. He got mugged every weekend, and continued to go out, playing hurt, but playing well.

There is no doubt that Patrick was a trooper out there last year, but as to whether or not he played well...I'm not so sure. Four wins in Eleven starts isn't really playing well. Admittedly the defenses seeming inability to hold onto a fourth quarter lead didn't help, but there were opportunities for Ramsey to win the game that didn't pan out. Remember the first game against the Eagles. There is no doubt that Ramsey has a Cannon for an arm, the problem is can he reign that puppy in and stop overthrowing his guys by 10 yards.

redskins56 wrote:...He then here's on TV that the Redskins are going after a veteran backup. He talks to Joe, and Gibbs tells him he will be the starter, and that he was bringing in someone to play behind him. He finds out again from a report that the player is Brunell, and that he would challenge Ramsey for the job. Again, he and his agent contact Gibbs, and Snyder, and come into the park for a chat. At which point he is told that he might not start, and that Brunell is going to battle it out wiht him for the starting spot in camp.

I don't ever remember Joe Gibbs saying that Ramsey was the gauranteed starter. I don't remeber him saying that he was going to bring in a back-up. I do remeber him saying that he was going to bring in a VETERAN QB. I could be wrong, but I don't remember Gibbs saying any of these things, though perhaps they were attributed to him by the media....which as we know must generate contraversy or else have no jobs.

redskins56 wrote:He then sees Brunell...signed to a deal in which he will make 9 million a season when you break it down over the 7 years, and he gets a lucrative signing bonus of worth about 9 million.

You know that thats not how it works. All told Brunell will be making about 2.2 million next year. No one in there right mind actually thinks that Brunell is going to see all that money. And the signing bonus was 8 million.

redskins56 wrote:He is 24, and entering what should be the prime of his career... Now he will more than likely take the back seat to a man 11 years his elder, and not as skilled.

Well, Brunells three ProBowl appearances, and his playoff appearances say that he is as skilled as Ramsey. And so do Joe Gibbs eyes. I'm glad that this 24 year old kids is going to get some competition. He needs it. If Brunell is so much worse than Ramsey then Ramsey will be the starter. Ramsey could stand to learn from a real NFL starting quarterback, not Wuerful and Matthews. Remember the guy has only started 16 games and his wimming record is not looking too hot. Don't be so quick to bash Brunell and exalt Ramsey.

redskins56 wrote:Would you be happy??? I sure as heck wouldn't be...

As someone else said...I think it was Jake...I'd be happy to be getting paid to play a game. And its not like Ramsey is making chump change....I do agree that he probably isn't getting paid up to his caliber of player, but if and when he proves something....other than how tough he is....he'll be the one getting paid ridiculous money.

I'm not bashing Ramsey. I like the kid....well I liked him before he started this whining about how he is not going to be the starter. (And yes, I do think that Ramsey has to be a least partially behind this push for a trade.) But still I think that he is a good quarterback...but he's not great...at least not yet. He could certainly use the mentoring, and he could certainly use the competition. Brunell is a great quarterback...Yes I said Great...It remains to be seen whether he IS or WAS a great QB. Partrick Ramsey has the potential to become a great QB. But it has yet to be seen whether he will be. If Ramsey doesn't want to learn to become better, and if he doesn't want to compete for his job then he should go get a government job. This is the NFL, This is the Redskins, under a new Chief....JOE GIBBS....No one is guaranteed a starting job. If Ramsey really wants to leave, and this isn't just a ploy to get more money...then I say good riddance. Gibbs wants MEN of character...not crybaby rich kids.

Chad Dukes

Nice response Chad. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I do also want it to be known that I'm am not trying to bash Redskin56. I recognized that he was trying to make a very passionate argument in favor of maintaining what many fans think is the future of the franchise. But passionate arguments aren't always logical ones. And this is business, where logic is king. In making that passionate argument I felt that a few of the facts were blurred and wanted to offer a different point of view.

Chad

I agree with you completely Chaddukes. Everybody on this site who slams Brunell argues "Ramsey is so young and Brunell is old with bad knees". 33 years old is not a bad age for a QB. John Elway was 37 and 38(about to turn 39) when he won back to back super bowls in 98' and 99'. I believe Brunell will do a good job in Washington. If he doesn't, then Ramsey will have his shot. I am happy that Brunell is here.

Chad Dukes.. I wanted you to make the team back in the day, and I was rooting for you at training camp, good points as well.

My rebuttle is this...

As far as no o-lineman helping him up, you like Fox's Brian Baldinger read too much into that stuff. Because they didn't help him up didn't mean they didn't believe in him. Jon Jansen is his best friend on the planet, they go hunting when its in season weekly, Chris Samuels has the same agent, and spends time at his house. Laveranues Coles said he was inspired to play hurt by Patrick Ramsey, "The heart and sould of our offense."

Many teams would kill to have the individuals on our line, because they all have great credentials. But they played like dog poop for the first 8-10 games of the season, allbeit a lot of that was becasue Spurrier was using college blocking schemes. Almost at the midway point of the season, Rasmey was on pace to break the record for time sacked in a season.

On occassion, I agree he did hold the ball to long, but he was 24, and operrating a very in depth offense. I think every QB to ever play would tell you that if you put them into a situation where you were asked to throw 25-35 times a game in an offense that emphasizes a lot of deep patterns, which take time to develop, and you got little help from your running game because it wasn't much to be afraid of, they would tell you they were destined to get sacked.

He won 4 starts in 11 games yes, but are you forgetting, that he helped keep the Redskins close in a lot of those games. Have you forgotten the home game against the Giants, when the Skins came back from 18 points down I believe with a late TD, and a successful 2 pt conversion, when Ramsey scrambled around for about 23 minutes and threw it to a heavilly covered Darnerian McCants. We lost in OT, because our defense couldn't make a stop. Or in Philly when we came back from 2 TD's down late in the 4th QTR, as Patrick marched us down the field for the game tying drive, only to miss the 2PC over Laveranues Coles' head. Our defense couldn't make the one play to get off the field (Bears, Dolphins, Panthers, Eagles, Giants, just to name a few) and win a game all year, and that more that Ramsey's play was a factor in him being 4-11.

Ramsey's agent said he was told he would be the starter, that is where I heard that from. I heard a sound bite on the radio of Sexton saying that.

The signing bonus was 8.63 million I believe, which is closer to 9 than it is 8. I don't care if he does see that money, he still got the deal.

Would I love to play, yes, but its differnt for them. This is their job, its a business, and while it is still fun, it is what they do to make a living.

About Marky Mark being as good as Ramsey...Brunell was replaced by a rookie last year, and isn't nearly as good as he used to be. He can't finish a season, so why not let the kid, who we will be starting at some point if he stays, play now. "The Future Is Now," ask George Allen..

You made good arguments, and these are my rebuttles...

I love this site....

-geepz

dukes and redskin56- You both make brilliant points. You should throw you names in the ring for the next Scrapple. Aside from that, I can see points on both side but the one hang up I have is that Ramsey is entering his THIRD season under his second coach. No QB not named David Carr was ever pummeled that badly. I think that Coach sees Ramsey as the future but he will have to unteach him all that Spurrier did. Brunell is a security measure that should be given the opportunity to start, if he is the better man. The idea that a player shouldnt have to compete for a position is nonsense. A third year man with only one season under his belt is even more nonsense. The position should be up for grabs. By this line of thinking, all our backs should be upset and demanding trades as well. I love Ramsey and I think he will be one of the best QB's this league has seen but for a second, lose the ego or is it the agent and the money?

I think it is also important to remember that, while quarterback is a crucial position in any offense, his importance is diminished in Gibbs offense relative to Spurrier's. Running back was essentially synonymous for 5th receiver in Spurrier's vocabulary.

I agree that his role will not be diminished in some sense, which I think will be good for him. The fact of the matter is that, in my opinion, I think both Ramsey and Brunell can thrive in this offense, because it just takes being a good game manager. A field general of sorts...

Whichever one gets the shot will have an opportunity, not to win games, but to keep the Redskins in it. I think it is a good situation if we can keep Patrick happy, which might mean somebody forcing Jimmy Sexton out of his job. I really think he is trying to stir the pot more, and get to Ramsey, because he wants to have leaverage for two of his other clients, Chris Samuels and Jim Kleinsasser, both of whom will possibly talk to the Skins about contracts this offseason.

-Geepz