The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Not sure if this was posted or not, as I just came across it. From Dr. Z's mailbag in SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... .to/1.html

Here we go again. Mike of Rye, N.Y., asks why only John Riggins of the great Redskin teams of the '80s is the only one selected from those outfits? Mike, you just missed it. The millionth person to ask that question was going to win the prize of a case of Iams Hairball Care cat food, endorsed by Little Jake the Tabby and many others, and you fell only two short. Sorry.

Here's the answer, for the millionth time. It's possible for teams to have a roster of great players, but not necessarily Hall of Fame great. For instance, aside from Tom Brady, who are your Hall of Fame Patriots from their Super Bowl run? OK, on those Redskin teams, of the players you named I'll give you Darrell Green. Definitely should be in there. Russ Grimm? Borderline. Jacoby? Maybe in a lean year, but there have been better linemen. May and Bostic? C'mon now. You're reaching. Art Monk? He's been a finalist so many times that I'll bet that he'll make it one of these years, just so we won't have to keep arguing about him for all eternity. And thank you for your kind words about my Thinking Man's Guide.

And thank you for your kind words about my Thinking Man's Guide.

Hoping Z is ironic about kind comments.

Didn't he pick the Bills over the Redskins in SB 26?

I saw this yesterday and it just kind of got under my skin for some reason so I decided to email him about his obvious bias against anything Redskins. Don't know why I am looking forward to a response because I am sure it will be more B.S. on his part.

welch wrote:

And thank you for your kind words about my Thinking Man's Guide.

Hoping Z is ironic about kind comments.

Didn't he pick the Bills over the Redskins in SB 26?

He picked the Bills in each Super Bowl ... the guy is an idiot

He picked the Bills in each Super Bowl ... the guy is an idiot

Thanks, Fios, I thought so but I wasn't certain except for 26.

Checking the derivation of the word (Wikipedia):

Idiot is a word derived from the Greek ἰδιώτης, idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill,"

Of course, by "professional skill", they meant someone unconerned with the affairs of the polis -- the city or community -- and concerned only with their individual lives. Taking that any further would lead us to a lounge discussion as to whether a person can or should ignore the community. To live without a polis (community) said Aristotle, you would have to be either something greater than a human (such as a god) or less (an animal). Compare to the "great commandment" to love your neighbor as yourself.

Anyway, "Dr." Z clearly fits the literal meaning: person lacking in professional skill. In fact, if I had to start a list of literal idiots, I'd start with "Dr." Z.

My signature's -raison d'être-

HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

Jacoby, Grimm, Bostic, May...who was better? Well, yes, Jim Lachey, who is too quickly forgotten, so we'll add him. Lachey: the LT who mastered LT. I mean that Lachey could handle Lawrence Taylor so effectively one-on-one (no sacks, I believe) that Belichek began to hide Taylor from Lachey. Move Taylor back to the center, where he could rove, and attack after someone else had engaged Lachey.

On-on-one, Lachey was nimble enough always to keep between Taylor and Rypien. Strong enough, at 295 pounds, that Taylor would bounce off rather than over-power him.

So what OL was better from 1981 through '91? How else could the "Dr" Z judge the effectiveness of an OL?

Jacoby and Grimm don't require a second thought. Lachey tore a knee in '93. May was efective all the way until 1988 or '89. Bostic started all three SB victories...nobody looks at the center, but what other center did as much. Three Qb's, three RB's, one center.

From Reading what Dr. Z wrote I have to think that Redskins Fans are getting to him a little bit now. Especially when he said Art Monk should be in the Hall of Fame just so he doesn't have to hear it no more.......................I mean, that reply was ANGRY!!! The guy didn't even ask about Art Monk, Dr. Z brought him up and got even angrier!!! Or so it seemed anyway. I'm tempted to email bomb that guy, maybe I can get in on the fun!...............On second thought screw SI!!!

Dr. Z? Isn't he the guy from those Chrysler commercials awhile back?

JansenFan wrote:Dr. Z? Isn't he the guy from those Chrysler commercials awhile back?

Yeah, and Chrysler just folded! Lets hope SI does too!

Dr. Z? Doctor of what? Dr. Dumba!! is more like it.

HanburgerHelper wrote:HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

I love Dougy, but he will never make the hall.

Charm City Sports wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

I love Dougy, but he will never make the hall.

Agreed. One season, and one incredible quarter does not make one a Hall of Fame candidate. He was a solid journeyman who caught lightening in a bottle. Art Monk was incredible through his entire career, and can't get in.

Charm City Sports wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

I love Dougy, but he will never make the hall.

And shouldn't even be considered!

Charm City Sports wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

I love Dougy, but he will never make the hall.

He may make the Hall as a coach. If he wins a couple more SuperBowls with Manning, I dont see why he couldnt make the Hall of fame. Also he coached good teams in Tampa Bay.

HEROHAMO wrote:

Charm City Sports wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

I love Dougy, but he will never make the hall.

He may make the Hall as a coach. If he wins a couple more SuperBowls with Manning, I dont see why he couldnt make the Hall of fame. Also he coached good teams in Tampa Bay.

Ummm... Dougy... D-O-U-G-Y.

If Dungy ever played for the skins, he sure was discrete about it...

Countertrey wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

Charm City Sports wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:HOF Candidates During Redskins Super Bowls
-- John Riggins, RB (in)
-- Art Monk, RB (should be in)
-- Darrell Green (will be in)
-- Russ Grimm (should be in)
-- Mark May (good enough to be considered)
-- Joe Jacoby (good enough to be considered)
-- Doug Williams (will be in)
-- Gary Clark (good enough to be considered)

**As far as fame goes, there a few Offensive lines more memorable than the "Hogs" so I'd be shocked if one or possibly two don't make it to the HOF. That said, there seems to be a bias against Redskin players in the voting. If Eugene Upshaw and Art Shell make it as linemates, not sure why Grimm and May don't. I think they were comparable. I'm not sure how long May played though so I may back off of that somewhat. Jacoby had a heck of a career I thought. Gary Clark was an amazing receiver and spent what, two years in the USFL first with good results? In fact, it may be Clark and Sanders that hinder Monk in that folks may see those guys as too big of distractions for Monk not be open most of the time.

I love Dougy, but he will never make the hall.

He may make the Hall as a coach. If he wins a couple more SuperBowls with Manning, I dont see why he couldnt make the Hall of fame. Also he coached good teams in Tampa Bay.

Ummm... Dougy... D-O-U-G-Y.

If Dungy ever played for the skins, he sure was discrete about it...

Ahh....... I thought it said Dungy. My bad