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this will be the first election i can vote in so im pretty excited about casting the ballot. so far i like Giuliani what do y'all think:?:

I loved his book, "Leadership." Gotta know more on his actual agenda to have an opinion though.

I think he's a turd.

On the surface, he's a pro-choice republican, as am I. I'll need to do my research before deciding whom to vote for, but on the issues I am aware of his position, we tend to agree.

Irn-Bru wrote:I think he's a turd.

In a normal politician way or is there something you have particularly against him?

Living in the NY area I saw him do a difficult job better then the other bozos in the job. But as presidential candidate I can't argue strongly one way or the other so I'm just asking. I liked "Leadership" because his philosophy sounded similar to Reagan, but I don't know at this point how that translates into priority and policy which is the key question.

I don't think he's a turd. He's just gay!

Not that there is anything wrong with that.............I'm just saying.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I think he's a turd.

In a normal politician way or is there something you have particularly against him?

Living in the NY area I saw him do a difficult job better then the other bozos in the job. But as presidential candidate I can't argue strongly one way or the other so I'm just asking. I liked "Leadership" because his philosophy sounded similar to Reagan, but I don't know at this point how that translates into priority and policy which is the key question.

I've read about him and his policies -- or, at least, as much material as is currently available -- and my disagreements with particular policies are numerous. He's a moderate, generally speaking, and I don't identify with that political stance.

But, then again, I'm not really a Republican, even though the candidate I would most support in the entire field (both D and R) is one, Ron Paul.

Abortion seems to be his 'bad point' for many Republicans. It isn't a big political / presidential issue for me one way or the other, so I'm neither excited nor offended by Giuliani's middle-of-the-road stance on it. I would take issues with him for other reasons.

The short answer is that Giuliani is about 50% "Rudy the Good" and about 50% "Rudy the Luniatic".

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Longer answer

Rudy the Good:

- Stepped forward and led the entire country the day the World Trade Center was bombed

- While mayor, he sometimes did what seemed right, powering through the paperwork and flim-flam and two million variously opposing interests. Other mayors gave up.

- Not his idea, but while he was mayor someone had the brilliant idea to arrest people who jump subway turnstyles. Before, they had just been give a ticket. The point? When someone is arrested, the police can search them. The police cannot search someone just because an officer thnks the person is carrying a gun. Nor can they search someone just because you or I or any ordinary citizen think we saw that person sell drugs. By arresting people who had committed smaller offenses, the police were able to find gun-carrying drug-dealers. That's not all, or even most of why the crack trade slowed in NYC in the 90's, but it helped.

- As US attorney, Rudy won a corruption settlement against Jackie Presser and the mob-led Teamsters. He offered the cleverest settlement possible: Presser and friends could avoid jail if they held an election monitored by the US government. Imagine that! An honest election! Perfect solution.

Rudy the Lunatic:

- As of 8am on that September 11, most New Yorkers thought of him as the mayor who sent the police to arrest food-cart vendors. Rudy declared war on hot dog and falafel and knish guys, bravely sweeping them off the streets and forcing us to go to over-priced restaurants for lunch. (The carts are back now that Rudy is gone.)

- Rudy was the mayor who sent the police on a well-publicized campaign to drive off squegee guys (come over to wash your windshield), flower-sellers, newspaper sellers, etc, who "harassed" drivers at stop lights.

- Rudy refused advice from anyone, except those truly rich and powerful enough to break him. Otherwise, he stomped on opponents. He had massive trouble compromising with the city council, the state legislature, and the (Republican) governor.

- During his last summer as mayor, Rudy campaigned hard to give new ball-parks to the Yankees and Mets: $500 million stadium for the Yankees that would have been built over the Penn Station yards -- where the Jets tried to slip a free stadium last year; $450 million stadium for the Mets, to include a replica of the home-plate side of Ebbets Field. All of this when the City was broke.

- Rudy insisted that he could cut the stadium deals without permission from the city council. Rudy the autocrat. There would have been a court case. Rudy believed that the Mayor of New York could determine the limits of the mayor's power.

- At the same time, Rudy cut funding for the public libraries (which get almost nothing anyway). Cut back hours and shut branches. His explanation? If somebody wants to read a book, they can always buy it.

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So, under the public relations blather, Rudy is a weird character.

A true "Law and Order" liberal. He'd be a Democrat that I could stand to vote for.

CT, I think you want to vote for Mayor Bloomberg. Sort of Giuliani without the
sudden crazy spells, and much better at persuading people to agree...although he's going ahead with the baseball parks plan.

(And Mike Bloomberg was a Democrat...just couldn't get through the Democratic primary in NYC.)

welch wrote:CT, I think you want to vote for Mayor Bloomberg. Sort of Giuliani without the
sudden crazy spells, and much better at persuading people to agree...although he's going ahead with the baseball parks plan.

(And Mike Bloomberg was a Democrat...just couldn't get through the Democratic primary in NYC.)

I never said I WOULD vote for him, nor that I WANTED to vote for him... just that I COULD. Assuming, of course, he was the Democrat candidate.

Countertrey wrote:

welch wrote:CT, I think you want to vote for Mayor Bloomberg. Sort of Giuliani without the
sudden crazy spells, and much better at persuading people to agree...although he's going ahead with the baseball parks plan.

(And Mike Bloomberg was a Democrat...just couldn't get through the Democratic primary in NYC.)

I never said I WOULD vote for him, nor that I WANTED to vote for him... just that I COULD. Assuming, of course, he was the Democrat candidate.

I think he might steal the nomination from Hilary!

welch wrote:Rudy was the mayor who sent the police on a well-publicized campaign to drive off squegee guys (come over to wash your windshield), flower-sellers, newspaper sellers, etc, who "harassed" drivers at stop lights.

This was a good thing. I was so sick of driving into Manhattan and having scum in scummy clothing smear my windshield and I had to pay them to go away because I didn't know what they would do to my car if I didn't, and I couldn't drive away because I was stuck in traffic. They gave you no choice, they just went up and did it and came to you for dough.

How on earth can you be against ending that extortion?

How on earth can you be against ending that extortion?

Since they disappeared, he has been driving around with a dirty windshield, and his wife never talks to him because he never brings her any flowers. He is out of touch with the disaster they call the 2007 Yankees, because he never sees the NYT sports section (the revolving door at Manager is about to awaken after many years of hibernation).

Besides, aren't libertarians supposed to love entrepeneurs?

Countertrey wrote:

How on earth can you be against ending that extortion?

Since they disappeared, he has been driving around with a dirty windshield, and his wife never talks to him because he never brings her any flowers. He is out of touch with the disaster they call the 2007 Yankees, because he never sees the NYT sports section (the revolving door at Manager is about to awaken after many years of hibernation).

Besides, aren't libertarians supposed to love entrepeneurs?

True, but things worked out. I started washing my car more because the windshields were dirty and it looks nicer then ever, I started buying my wife real flowers from florist shops instead of wilting street ones and things are better then ever at home (if you know what I mean) and I didn't have to read about the fold to the Red Sox followed by them winning the World Series keeping my spirits up while New Yorkers were depressed.

Yes, we like entrepreneurs. We also like guns and protecting private property.

Actually I'm a Tiger fan and live in Connecticut, but going with the story.

To me there is a difference between people who offer a service and people who force a service. Those people seem to without invitation give a service and then expect money. That’s like me coming to your house cutting your grass and saying that’s going to be $50. It’s a little messed up and you can't really justify it. So I totally agree with him on that. I also agree with him on the stadium construction that brings more jobs and kick starts the economy.

To me there is a difference between people who offer a service and people who force a service. Those people seem to without invitation give a service and then expect money. That’s like me coming to your house cutting your grass and saying that’s going to be $50. It’s a little messed up and you can't really justify it. So I totally agree with him on that. I also agree with him on the stadium construction that brings more jobs and kick starts the economy.

- Most drivers just told the squeegee guys to go away. I did. Sometimes I would growl a little, but mostly they just moved on to another car. And they usually asked a quarter or a dollar...no big-time thuggery.

- I can't see paying for construction. If the market supports building something, then the market will get it built. Why give tax money to the construction companies and construction unions?

I agree with your second bullet-point, welch. If it actually was good for an economy to force a city to build stadiums when it didn't seem plausible, then cities should spend all of their money building stadiums all the time, if only to enrich the inhabitants.

I remember meeting Guiliani at the Pier 92 Command Center about a week after the attacks in NY. The one thing that stuck with me all this time about it was the look I got from the fire and police guys as I shook Rudy's hand. True and utter disgust...and they don't know me. Many of them felt that Rudy had shafted them in some way.
I don't know if this impacts my vote or not.

Irn-Bru wrote:I think he's a turd.

I'm going to revise this statement: I think he's a turd and a thug. (As are all of the Rep's that advocated torture, which was all but 2, by my count).

If he could raise the money, and get the sigs. I think Rudy should have run as an Indy. I just think he's too much of a RINO for the hardcore folks out there.

Abortion is gonna sink him

Isn't he a little old for an abortion?

Here's what I know about Rudy without even thinking about policies and programs.

He's an occasional cross dresser and very public about it.
He does in fact seem to have fits of craziness.
New Yorkers think he's off his rocker and don't support him.
He has mob connections.
He's a serial adulter and can't keep his marriages together.
He runs around NY City wearing a Yankees baseball jacket and hat.
After 9/11 he tried to get his term of office extended, then actually started a campaign to abolish term limits so he could run again.
Did absolutely freakin' nothing to help after 9/11 but run around in front of cameras (in lieu of going to his office and working.)
He's ill-spoken, often appears stupid and without ordinary social skills.
He's mentally unbalanced and needs therapy more than the presidency.

UK Skins Fan wrote:Isn't he a little old for an abortion?