The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

What if we got Simeon Rice

have carter and Rice at DE

it is possible he is kind of old and the bucaneers just got adams

as long as we don't mortgage our future i say go ofr it. we have to show patience, there will be a lot of casualties after June 1st. nothing like bargain hunting!!

If at all possible, a one year deal, so he can earn a longer contract. If I'm not mistaken, he's been on a decline, and he needs to regain form to get the big bucks, kinda like Moss is doing in NE.

Well, how likely is it to really get him?

I know im sounding like a broken record.. but this talk of going after players like Rice and Keyshawn is ridiculous.. making moves like that is why we suck right now.. we need to go for youth.. build through the draft .. I just dont feel like were one or two players away from the super bowl

we are just tying up cap space..and hurting our chances in the future of adding talented young players because we are still paying for these over the hill players 2 years after theyve left

Dude, you're 100% right.

However, I think of guys like Darryl Gardener. If he's on the backside of his career, and isn't expensive. then yeah.

But, if he wants too much. Then its really not worth it.

I don't have a problem with it as long as we don't over spend and throw away draft picks, which we most likely would even though he will probably be released June 1st.

Go for him for the Vet Minimum + incentives. I'm okay with that. If not, I say pass.

I dont think Simeon Rice is the unswer for us right now, we need to give our young players time to develope. By bringing a vet, it is just going to take time away from our young player;s development. Also, I thouhgt he just restructured his contract last year to stay in Tampa...I dont think they will let him go any where anyway.

everydayAskinsday wrote:I know im sounding like a broken record.. but this talk of going after players like Rice and Keyshawn is ridiculous.. making moves like that is why suck right now.. we need to go for youth.. build through the draft .. I just dont feel like were one or two players away from the super bowl

Have you actually looked at the Redskins Dead Cap or are you listening to that four letter network when you make post like this? Most of the dead cap is from youth through the draft that didn't make the team.

everydayAskinsday wrote:we are just tying up cap space..and hurting our chances in the future of adding talented young players because we are still paying for these over the hill players 2 years after theyve left

Here's the breakdown of the Dead Cap... Does this change your outlook?o

Adam Archuleta ... S ... $4.5M traded to the Bears no dead cap in 2008, Taylor Jacobs ... WR ... $284,000 Tredaed to SF last year no dead cap in 2008. The folloeing players were cut in 2006 and this is the last year the take up dead cap: Chijioke Onyenegecha ... CB ... $3000, Derrick Fenner ... WR ... $3000, Manaia Brown ... DT ... $2000, Chris Hawkins ... CB ... $7000, Robert Johnson ... TE ... $8000, Kevin Simon ... LB ... $17000, David Lonie ... P ... $7000, Jasper Harvey ... OG ... $7000, Spencer Havner ... LB ... $7000, Kili Lefotu ... OG ... $2300, Buck Ortega ... TE ... $3000, Manuel White ... FB ... $213,000, Nehemiah Broughton ... FB ... $14,000 most were drafted or signed as UFA.

These guys were cut this year:

Troy Vincent ... S ... $167,000, Christian Fauria ... TE ... $95,000, John Hall ... K ... $465,000, and David Patten ... WR ... $3.013M but will drop to $762,000 after June 1st. As it stands now the dead cap is @ $8.8M in 2007 and Patten will be the only guy on the 2008 dead cap until the Skins make June 1st cuts

Arch, Hall and Patten are the only ones the could remotely fit your stance on this issue, but Hall earned his keep the first few years, and David could help he wasn't able to stay healthy. Together they count a little over a million this year. We got lucky with the Arch trade and he still takes up more than half the dead cap. So AA is the only guy that truly fits your postition. That would be 1 out of 19 guys taking up space that you seem to be the only one worried about.

BTW: We currently have more cap space than anyone has reported at anytime this off-season. Most reports have us at around $3.9M under with $3.4M going to the rookie pool. That's only half a mil. to play with. fact of the matter is we are currently at $5.184M under and on June 1st that will be adjusted upwards to $7.3M, and the rookie pool is still at $3.4M giving the Skins almost $4M under. About $1.5M should be set aside for injuries.

thats very impressive research ..but it doesnt change how I feel about bringing in over the hill players.. my main point wasnt that we are always paying for players after there gone.. I did mention this yes but I didnt refer to any players currently or specifically.. but I know in the past it has happened and will always be something that happens with every NFL team.. and as you said its alot of young players who couldnt make the team..

my whole issue in general is bringing in these aging vets.. it doesnt do anything for team chemistry and keeps a revolving door mentality about this team.. this is just my opnion

Thanks 1niksder for the cap breakdown. I don't where this info is located, so I think anyone without it as at a severe disadvantage when speculating about any player moves.

I think if a guy like Simeon Rice can help the team and we can pay him for a short-term contract, ideally one year, I think we could use another decent free agent vet who can come right in and contribute. Maybe even two. That said, I still would like the Skins to be more disciplined when it comes to acquiring new talent through free agency and the draft.

I think the front office has shown recently that oldies but goodies aren't much of an option anymore, that is, the Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Brunell, and Dan Wilkinson type of players who have been around the block. They may contribute, but never live up to their contracts or lofty expectations.

For instance, I always liked Brunell, but I was aghast when they first talked about him being the starter instead of a backup/tutor kind of guy. I think not developing Pat Ramsey and letting him play out his contract and then overpaying Brunell set us back three or four years. If we'd shown some discipline, we could have worked with Ramsey and gotten someone like Kerry Collins as a backup who was available later in the same year Brunell surfaced. Then we could have still drafted a guy like Jason Campbell and taken him later because we wouldn't have been so needy. We could have a real solid QB situation now, but we now have one that is very shaky in my estimation.

everydayAskinsday wrote:thats very impressive research ..but it doesnt change how I feel about bringing in over the hill players.. my main point wasnt that we are always paying for players after there gone.. I did mention this yes but I didnt refer to any players currently or specifically.. but I know in the past it has happened and will always be something that happens with every NFL team.. and as you said its alot of young players who couldnt make the team..

my whole issue in general is bringing in these aging vets.. it doesnt do anything for team chemistry and keeps a revolving door mentality about this team.. this is just my opnion

I'm just pointing out that the dead cap is like the salary cap (a non-issue with the Redskins). And figured this was a good way to update everyone on the Dead Cap situation prior to June 1st.
Definately will change in June.

It also shows that when the vets are brought in they are doing more to remain with the team than the youngsters. Most vets that don't make it aren't taking up space once they are gone, where when the rookie don't make it the still eat up space.

Something else I noticed: Kili Lefotu and Nehemiah Broughton are taking up dead cap space in 2007 and are on the current roster

I must say how much you know about the salary cap is amazing .. I wish I was even capable of figuring stuff like that out.. lets just say math isnt my strong suit

No, this would be another retard move for the Skins but thats what the fans want so give it to them.

Is Rice the missing peice to a Skins team primed for a SB run? Heck no. We're no where near becoming a SB team.

Why give playing time to a player who won't be here in 3-4 years when we could be giving that experience to a player who will be here when we make a push for the playoffs.

But Skins fans don't think 2,3,4 years ahead, they only think of the upcoming season and thats why we go sub .500 year after year after year after year....

If for no other reason we should get him so CSam doesn't have to play against him...He owns CSam!!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Why give playing time to a player who won't be here in 3-4 years when we could be giving that experience to a player who will be here when we make a push for the playoffs.

We are already giving playing time to players that won't be here in 3-4 years

Wynn and Daniels will be gone next year, Salave'a might not make it through 2007. Rice would displace one of these guys, and I don't see that happening.

Looking at the roster it's set up pretty good for the younger guys to continue to learn the GW system and get spot duty until the aging vets move on. It actually looks like they have a plan.

DLs weren't brought in this off-season because there are enough on the roster to build for the future. Playing Wynn and Daniels at the same spot this year makes sense considering Golston and Carter equaled a 50% change in the D-line from 2005 to 2006. Both had to learn a new system and are projected to start this year. Even minor changes to what the line looked like would effect them all. They stood pat in the off-season and the more I look at it the more it makes sense. Bringing in some that would help from day one on the D-line could still help but Rice isn't "that" defensive lineman.

DEHog wrote:If for no other reason we should get him so CSam doesn't have to play against him...He owns CSam!!

That makes sense too

Why do you guys even start these stupid threads. Your the same guys that cry cus everyone on the D is old and you want to bring in another old guy. This is ridiculous!

HardDawg wrote:Why do you guys even start these stupid threads. Your the same guys that cry cus everyone on the D is old and you want to bring in another old guy. This is ridiculous!

HanburgerHelper wrote:Thanks 1niksder for the cap breakdown. I don't where this info is located, so I think anyone without it as at a severe disadvantage when speculating about any player moves.

Here's a breakdown of the 2007 cap hits by position:

$14,143,000 goes to the Coners, there are 8 on the team:

34 John Eubanks CB $292,000
?? Daniel Francis CB $285,000
32 Ade Jimoh CB $710,000
38 David Macklin CB $480,000
22 Carlos Rogers CB $2,551,000
27 Fred Smoot CB $2,100,000
24 Shawn Springs CB $7,358,000
29 Leigh Torrence CB $367,000

$5,853,000 goes to the Safeties, there are 8 on the team:

35 Chip Cox S $293,000
37 Reed Doughty S $395,000
39 Vernon Fox S $710,000
?? LaRon Landry S $285,000
41 Jarrell Pippens S $367,000
20 Pierson Prioleau S $877,000
23 Omar Stoutmire S $475,000
21 Sean Taylor S $2,451,000


$10,826,000 goes to the Defensive Ends, there are 9 on the team:

99 Andre Carter DE $2,268,000
93 Philip Daniels DE $3,267,000
92 Demetric Evans DE $917,000
91 Jamaal Green DE $442,000
?? Justin Hickman DE $285,000
69 Bryant Shaw DE $285,000
78 Joe Sykes DE $292,000
74 Chris Wilson DE $292,000
97 Renaldo Wynn DE $2,778,000

$9,399,000 goes to the Defensive Tackles, there are 8 on the team:

79 Lorenzo Alexander DT $292,000
73 Ryan Boschetti DT $517,000
96 Jared Clauss DT $442,000
64 Kedrick Golston DT $389,000
96 Cornelius Griffin DT $6,166,000
90 Vaka Manupuna DT $292,000
94 Anthony Montgomery DT $408,000
95 Joe Salave'a DT $893,000

$12,887,000 goes to the Linebackers, there are 9 on the team:

?? HB Blades LB $285,000
50 Khary Campbell LB $705,000
59 London Fletcher-Baker LB $3,010,000
?? Zach Latimer LB $285,000
98 Lemar Marshall LB $1,182,000
52 Roger McIntosh LB $822,000
?? Dallas Sartz LB $285,000
59 Anthony Trucks LB $292,000
53 Marcus Washington LB $6,021,000

That's roughly $53,108,000 on the defense.

Offense comes to about $51,552,000
Here's the O's breakdown

$22,075,000 goes to the Linemen, there are 13 on the team (I'm counting the Red Snapper with Special Teams:

62 Mike Pucillo OC $482,000
61 Casey Rabach OC $3,650,000
?? Stephen Heyer OG $285,000
67 Kili Lefotu OG $285,000
77 Randy Thomas OG $3,363,000
68 Ross Tucker OG $482,000
74 Todd Wade OG $1,987,000
76 Will Whittaker OG $442,000
75 Calvin Armstrong OT $367,000
69 Jason Fabini OT $481,000
76 Jon Jansen OT $3,449,000
60 Chris Samuels OT $6,200,000
72 Taylor Whitley OT $602,000

$7,537,000 goes to the Quarterbacks, there are 6 on the team:

5 Casey Bramlet QB $360,000
8 Mark Brunell QB $3,522,000
17 Jason Campbell QB $1,610,000
15 Todd Collins QB $1,475,000
? Sam Hollenbach QB $285,000
? Jordan Palmer QB $285,000


$8,442,000 goes to the Running Backs, there are 8 on the team:

45 Mike Sellers FB $970,000
46 Ladell Betts RB $1,377,000
39 Kerry Carter RB $442,000
30 Nehemiah Broughton FB $442,000
31 Rock Cartwright RB $675,000
?? Terry Caulley RB $285,000
?? Marcus Mason RB $285,000
26 Clinton Portis RB $3,966,000

$2,495,000 goes to the Tight Ends, there are 4 on the team:

47 Chris ey TE $1,020,000
?? Tyler Ecker TE $285,000
84 Eric Edwards TE $442,000
87 Todd Yoder TE $748,000


$11,003,000 goes to the Wide Outs, there are 10 on the team:

19 Cedric Bonner WR $285,000
11 Mike Espy WR $367,000
12 Steven Harris WR $292,000
18 Ryan Hoag WR $360,000
85 Brandon Lloyd WR $2,428,000
89 Santana Moss WR $3,228,000
82 Antwaan Randle El WR $2,428,000
?? Taylor Sele WR $285,000
83 James Thrash WR $1,045,000
?? Deyon Williams WR $285,000

Special Teams looks like this:

4 Derrick Frost P $857,000
71 Ethan Albright LS $482,000
0 Tyler Fredrickson K $285,000
6 Shaun Suisham K $442,000

Totaling $2,066,000 for the 4 of them

I went with $285,000 for the unsigned/undrafted rookies that number will go up once contracts are signed by guys like Landry and Blades others it will not change.

Only the top 51 players will count against the Cap in the end, that total is currently at $95,437,000.

The Dead Cap is @ $8,838,000 with David Patten’s hit dropping by $2,251,000 and lowering it to $6,587,000

The Redskins are currently $5.184M under the cap. The Redskins adjusted Cap number is $109.656M. That's $104 million spent.

There are 4 roster spots open as of today

1niksder wrote:David Patten ... WR ... $3.013M but will drop to $762,000 after June 1st.

we are currently at $5.184M under and on June 1st that will be adjusted upwards to $7.3M

Like the others, I thought this was really interesting, 1niksder. This is truly the heart of the value add of a site like this. The reason I kept these out though is I wondered what happens on June 1 for these. I know if you cut people then the cap hit is spread over 2 years, but didn't we already cut Patten? And why does the cap get adjusted on June 1?

Thanks.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:David Patten ... WR ... $3.013M but will drop to $762,000 after June 1st.

we are currently at $5.184M under and on June 1st that will be adjusted upwards to $7.3M

Like the others, I thought this was really interesting, 1niksder. This is truly the heart of the value add of a site like this. The reason I kept these out though is I wondered what happens on June 1 for these. I know if you cut people then the cap hit is spread over 2 years, but didn't we already cut Patten? And why does the cap get adjusted on June 1?

Thanks.

The new CBA allows a team to cut a player prior to June 1st and designate them as a post June1st cut. The full cap hit stays on the books until June but the player is free to find another team without waiting until June.

1niksder wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:Thanks 1niksder for the cap breakdown. I don't where this info is located, so I think anyone without it as at a severe disadvantage when speculating about any player moves.

Here's a breakdown of the 2007 cap hits by position:

snip

1niksder, that is a fantastic breakdown, really impressive. Thank you for the time and effort.

Doing a bit of data mining on it, I find it interesting that half of the cap number for corner, 2/3 of DT on one defensive tackle, linebacker, running back, almost half of safety, are tied up in one player (Shawn Springs, Griffin, Washington, Portis, Taylor). Whereas even though Samuels eats up 6 mill cap space, that's only roughly 1/4 the offensive line number.

The disparity between Griffin and the #2 DT is quite enormous, for one example (6.1 mill to 900k!).

Not sure if there's any point to draw from this, but it's interesting to say the least.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:No, this would be another retard move for the Skins but thats what the fans want so give it to them.

Is Rice the missing peice to a Skins team primed for a SB run? Heck no. We're no where near becoming a SB team.

Why give playing time to a player who won't be here in 3-4 years when we could be giving that experience to a player who will be here when we make a push for the playoffs.

But Skins fans don't think 2,3,4 years ahead, they only think of the upcoming season and thats why we go sub .500 year after year after year after year....

This is the problem, everyone wants to write us off and think for the future, and not add any players. But the point is that we are one good wide out and one good d-linemen away from contention.That said Rice is kinda old, as is keyshawn. I might be able to deal with one of them.

brad7686 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:No, this would be another retard move for the Skins but thats what the fans want so give it to them.

Is Rice the missing peice to a Skins team primed for a SB run? Heck no. We're no where near becoming a SB team.

Why give playing time to a player who won't be here in 3-4 years when we could be giving that experience to a player who will be here when we make a push for the playoffs.

But Skins fans don't think 2,3,4 years ahead, they only think of the upcoming season and thats why we go sub .500 year after year after year after year....

This is the problem, everyone wants to write us off and think for the future, and not add any players. But the point is that we are one good wide out and one good d-linemen away from contention.That said Rice is kinda old, as is keyshawn. I might be able to deal with one of them.

There are 17 DL and 10 wideouts currently on the roster. With 4 DL starting that leaves a dozen of guys that can step up and be the "1 player". Same with the Wide-out ... room for 1 out of a half dozen.

Harris did pull a hammy today so that list is getting shorter.