Page 1 of 1
Kiper Says
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:20 am
by Gibbs4Life
Just read in the washtimes Kiper says we should trade out of 6 even if its just for a 4th or 5th rounder...that guy is an idiot. He went on to say we will not get chart value if thats what we're thinking...I have to disagree furthermore if we didn't get chart value we should absolutely keep our selection because a top 10 pick is worth more (call me crazy) than a couple 4th's. Besides I think we really need to think about getting a reciever we can count on in the red zone Mr. Calvin Johnson bring him to D.C. Joe PLLEASE!!
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:01 am
by frankcal20
I don't see Calvin coming here. Its just not likely. Not to mention we don't have anything to offer. As for the chart, it is to be used as a guideline but not a standard. You are forgetting about the value that is at the #6 pick. If the main players are gone, no one is going to move up for our 6. If Brady Quinn is available, then we should expect to work something out with Miami or Minnesota (even moving up 1 spot). Sure, what are late mid round picks? Well, they are a lot more than we have now. One thing your also forgetting is that the further we move back, we don't have to pay as much in bonus money. And we could use a break on salaries. Just my two cents
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:35 pm
by wormer
The problem with trading down (or TRYING to trade down) this year is most teams are looking to so that and not many teams are looking to move up. This puts the teams looking to move up in the drivers seat for the most part.
It seems the only way the Redskins will get decent value for thier pick is if Quinn or Russel somehow fall to them.
I really do not see that happening. Maybe Quinn. I also can not see Johnson falling to 6 either so if the Skins really want him they will have to move up to get him.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:35 pm
by welch
Isn't Mel Kiper the ESPN draft "specialist" who said that the Colts owed him an apology for (a) trading Jeff George and (b) failing to draft either Trent Dilfer or Heath Shuler?
Come to think about it, how did Kiper get to be a draft "specialist"? What does he know that we don't?
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:21 pm
by Countertrey
What does he know that we don't?
How to con a job out of ESPN.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:59 am
by Irn-Bru
If there are two people I wouldn't mind having disappear, it's Mel Kiper and another "expert" named Jim Cramer.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:47 am
by Fios
Kiper's opinion is worthless, seriously, when is the last time anyone said "wow, Kiper really nailed that"?
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:58 am
by Justice Hog
Yeah, trade #6 for two 4th rounders that probably won't even end up making the team. Great idea, Mel!
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:39 am
by frankcal20
Justice Hog wrote:Yeah, trade #6 for two 4th rounders that probably won't even end up making the team. Great idea, Mel!
I'm not sure if he was being literal. I think he was saying that we should take what we can get. Remember though, he's the biggest advocate for "Build through the draft." Thats his niche. I'm not saying that I 100% agree with him but I can't say say that I don't. If Quinn is at #6, I say we either trade down or draft him and work out a trade if our clock time is running out....Like the Eli for Phillip Rivers trade. There are several teams that would step up to work something out.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:45 pm
by Fios
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:00 pm
by Irn-Bru
If Quinn is at #6, I say we either trade down or draft him and work out a trade if our clock time is running out....Like the Eli for Phillip Rivers trade. There are several teams that would step up to work something out.
I think the Eli / Rivers trade only really worked out because both teams needed / wanted a QB. Throw in a whiny brat who got "daddy" to help him, and a NY team that was inexplicably desperate to get a piece of Eli, and you'll see how unusual that trade was. We don't need a quarterback, and we certainly don't want one, so why would a team give us a steal for a draft pick, or -- worse -- a player that we have no use for? Taking a QB and hoping for a great trade is the equivalent of reaching into quicksand with your arms to pull your legs out.
I think showing weakness by giving any sense of begging for a deal will have the other teams smelling blood. We will get fleeced if we enter the market even
appearing as though we need to make something happen.
From now until the end of the draft, Washington should play its strongest hand possible at all times and
not try to bluff on this one. Sit tight and take the 6th pick, unless someone offers us something that is truly too good to pass up. If the coaches become fixated on moving down, they will inevitably settle for less and discount our pick for another (lucky) team.
Re: Kiper Says
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:36 pm
by skinsfan#33
Gibbs4Life wrote: Mr. Calvin Johnson bring him to D.C. Joe PLLEASE!!
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall")
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:46 pm
by PulpExposure
Irn-Bru wrote: Throw in a whiny brat who got "daddy" to help him, and a NY team that was inexplicably desperate to get a piece of Eli, and you'll see how unusual that trade was.
Hey...look...your last name is Manning? Played in the SEC?
OMG WE WANT YOU!!!!
I have always felt that if Eli's last name was Frerotte or Batch or something else like Peete, no one would be talking about him as the top rated QB in that draft.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:24 pm
by fleetus
Agree with FrankCal. I don't think Kiper was saying we should be happy just to get a 4th or 5th rounder. I depends on whether we trade from #6 to #7 or from #6 to #20.
It's all about leverage. If Quinn is the only name to draw interest from trade partners at #6, then what leverage do we have? Everyone knows the Redskins are not interested in Quinn. So they have to be CONVINCED that Minnesota would take Quinn at #7 to have any reason to pay us for the #6.
So, if Miami calls because they want to swap #9 for #6, it may not be worth more than a 4th rounder to them in that situation. Hypothetically, They might be thinking they have a 50/50 shot to get Quinn at #9 anyway. It is all relative to the situation. That's why that draft value chart is nearly worthless. The NFL draft uses the same supply/demand economics that free enterprise uses. You can't put a static value on anything. Something is worth EXACTLY what someone else is willing to pay for it, no more, no less.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:45 pm
by frankcal20
fleetus wrote:Agree with FrankCal. I don't think Kiper was saying we should be happy just to get a 4th or 5th rounder. I depends on whether we trade from #6 to #7 or from #6 to #20.
It's all about leverage. If Quinn is the only name to draw interest from trade partners at #6, then what leverage do we have? Everyone knows the Redskins are not interested in Quinn. So they have to be CONVINCED that Minnesota would take Quinn at #7 to have any reason to pay us for the #6.
So, if Miami calls because they want to swap #9 for #6, it may not be worth more than a 4th rounder to them in that situation. Hypothetically, They might be thinking they have a 50/50 shot to get Quinn at #9 anyway. It is all relative to the situation. That's why that draft value chart is nearly worthless. The NFL draft uses the same supply/demand economics that free enterprise uses. You can't put a static value on anything. Something is worth EXACTLY what someone else is willing to pay for it, no more, no less.
Very good. You have just given the definition of value in sales terms. enjoy'd your post.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:41 pm
by SkinsFreak
Irn-Bru wrote:If Quinn is at #6, I say we either trade down or draft him and work out a trade if our clock time is running out....Like the Eli for Phillip Rivers trade. There are several teams that would step up to work something out.
I think the Eli / Rivers trade only really worked out because both teams needed / wanted a QB. Throw in a whiny brat who got "daddy" to help him, and a NY team that was inexplicably desperate to get a piece of Eli, and you'll see how unusual that trade was. We don't need a quarterback, and we certainly don't want one, so why would a team give us a steal for a draft pick, or -- worse -- a player that we have no use for? Taking a QB and hoping for a great trade is the equivalent of reaching into quicksand with your arms to pull your legs out.
I think showing weakness by giving any sense of begging for a deal will have the other teams smelling blood. We will get fleeced if we enter the market even
appearing as though we need to make something happen.
From now until the end of the draft, Washington should play its strongest hand possible at all times and
not try to bluff on this one. Sit tight and take the 6th pick, unless someone offers us something that is truly too good to pass up. If the coaches become fixated on moving down, they will inevitably settle for less and discount our pick for another (lucky) team.
Nice post Irn-Bru, and I agree with you
100%.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:49 pm
by Countertrey
Quote:
If Quinn is at #6, I say we either trade down or draft him and work out a trade if our clock time is running out....Like the Eli for Phillip Rivers trade. There are several teams that would step up to work something out.
You NEVER draft a player with the intention of trading him unless the trade is all arranged.
NEVER