The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

think about it, Santana Moss lining up next to Calvin Johnson!!! that would drive defenses crazy, which not only free's up Santana to make 50 yard grabs, also puts less pressure on the box and CP/LB can tear it up on the ground. if he falls somehow, i would seriously be enraged if we dont take him. receivers like this dont come around every year, he will be one of the best EVER. agree?

I do. He is going to be one of the best players ever, and yes i can say that even though he is a wr. Barring injury of course. But luckily we won't have to make that decision because he won't fall to 6

I agree completely...I think he is the best player in the draft as of right now...and I dont think there is a defensive lineman that stands out that could be taken or should be taken in the top 10

If he falls to #6 there will be several teams that will offer attractive trade packages that will be difficult to pass up given our lack of day-one picks. I would be happy if we selected him at #6 because he is arguably the best player in the draft, but I would prefer a favorable trade that lets us draft a good DE/DT and pick up a few more day-one picks.

I doubt he will fall to #6, though. I can't see that many team passing on him and any trade offers.

There is NO possible way he drop to 6 . No way. If we want him we will have to trade up to 1 or 2 pick because hes not going below that. That trade could happen and if the skins went that way then I would be fine with it. Our offense would be pretty damn good.

I would really like to see Johnson playing for the Redskins, especially if we can get the players we need to stop the other team when he is not on the field.

When the plans for this team this year are discussed, some here present a plan for this season and the future by adding to a defense that was ranked in the bottom 3 of all 32 teams and doing what is needed to ensure the offense that looks like it will be very effective with a very good line has the depth to last the season. Next year we can get younger on both sides because we will have all our draft picks.

We rarely hear anyone who wants Johnson say how they plan to get the defense to be better - it's like "just make sure we get the best WR ever to be on our team" - then we will find a way in a couple of years or more to get a decent defense . This will not involve Williams I can assure you. If Williams does not get this defense back into the top 15 (at least) he will not be here!

IF we get Johnson this year we will not be a playoff team because we will not have addressed the areas that need fixing to be a consistenly good team.

We have some pretty good offensive weapons right now and just need to ensure we get some people on the line for both depth and to replace Dockery. Campbell is developing into a good QB but he will need 1 more year and with this present group of players I think we can be a very good team providing we play a lot better than we did on defense.

So, maybe we let Danny go "buy" him when Gibbs and Williams are finished making this team a success in a couple of years.

SkinsJock wrote:IF we get Johnson this year we will not be a playoff team because we will not have addressed the areas that need fixing to be a consistenly good team.

But, but, but, CJ Is shiny and exciting! He'll fix all our woes!

Just having him on our team will make our defense better!!!!

Yeah, never mind logic or actually using our ONE day 1 draft pick on an area of critical need...the 31st ranked defense.

Nah, let's just get ANOTHER damn receiver who makes a buttload of money. Let's follow that highly successful Lion blueprint!

PulpExposure wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IF we get Johnson this year we will not be a playoff team because we will not have addressed the areas that need fixing to be a consistenly good team.

But, but, but, CJ Is shiny and exciting! He'll fix all our woes!

Just having him on our team will make our defense better!!!!

Yeah, never mind logic or actually using our ONE day 1 draft pick on an area of critical need...the 31st ranked defense.

Nah, let's just get ANOTHER damn receiver who makes a buttload of money. Let's follow that highly successful Lion blueprint!

Don't get yourself all worked up into a frenzy about it. We're just talking about it and speculating the scenario, as they do with all possibilities this time of year.

That's only your logic and is quite subjective. And this logic is not even the most popular perspective by many professionals in the NFL. The fact is that many in the industry do not always agree with that line if thinking and take a much different approach.

Floyd Reese and Ernie Accorsi were discussing the draft on ESPN a couple of weeks ago. Both reflected on their experiences in dealing with front offices from around the league at draft time. When specifically asked, both agreed that when teams have draft picks inside the top 10, a large percentage of executives feel that team needs are trumped when you're talking about players of this caliber, and you don't pass up the chance to acquire players like this. They established the philosophy that you take them and build around them. They subsequently referenced the Saints as the most recent example of this; selecting Reggie Bush when that wasn't a position of need, and still making a deep playoff run.

So it is not unreasonable, at all, to consider this to be a real possibility. I'm not in any way suggesting that your logic is wrong; many would agree with you. But there is simply more than one formula and there will always be varying opinions. It would be rather foolish not evaluate ALL possible trades and draft strategies. We are doing nothing more than speculating here, as the Skins would be doing... you know, due diligence and all? That doesn't mean that it will happen, but it is worth the examination. And besides, what else do we have to talk about?

I also hear you SFreak - I would add that Bush did not have as much influence on that team's success as Brees - they had 2 very good RBs and Bush was a very good player but they had all the attributes going for them defensively as well - great players are very valuable, but average/good players who make the other players around them better are priceless, IMO I think acquiring Bush helped Deuce have a much better year.

I understand a lot of what we are seeing and hearing from all levels are a lot of smoke and mirrors - I just want to have a better team this year and the secret to that is for our FO guys (and coaches) to keep doing what they have these last few weeks and add players that make our team better not stars that they hope will be players - that is the problem a lot of other teams are going to have with this draft because IMO there are a lot of guys who will be picked in the top 20 who are just not going to be worth it. - This is not a great draft in most positions.

If we use the 6 pick I'm sure they will have done their due diligence and we will get a good player who will work out great but I really hope we get more than 1 good player with that pick.

SkinsFreak wrote:[ Don't get yourself all worked up into a frenzy about it. We're just talking about it and speculating the scenario, as they do with all possibilities this time of year.

Oh I'm not worked up at all. I just think the CJ talk is funny, really.

Floyd Reese and Ernie Accorsi were discussing the draft on ESPN a couple of weeks ago. Both reflected on their experiences in dealing with front offices from around the league at draft time. When specifically asked, both agreed that when teams have draft picks inside the top 10, a large percentage of executives feel that team needs are trumped when you're talking about players of this caliber, and you don't pass up the chance to acquire players like this. They established the philosophy that you take them and build around them. They subsequently referenced the Saints as the most recent example of this; selecting Reggie Bush when that wasn't a position of need, and still making a deep playoff run.

Sure. However, the Saints had a need at RB; Deuce McAlister was coming off of a damaged knee, and has had a lot of wear and tear on him. That there was a highly rated RB prospect available was a great confluence of need and value.

Similarly, we'll have the opportunity to draft for both need and value. I understand what you're saying, but there's a huge issue with the Redskins in this draft. Unlike most teams that can get a player in round 1, 2, 3, 4 and expect all 4 to contribute, this is in essence a one player draft for us. We won't get better on defense if we draft offense, because we can't rely on getting a player in the 2nd round that can play. Or the 3rd. Or the 4th....

PulpExposure wrote:Sure. However, the Saints had a need at RB; Deuce McAlister was coming off of a damaged knee, and has had a lot of wear and tear on him. That there was a highly rated RB prospect available was a great confluence of need and value.

Yes, you are right. But for the sake of argument, the fact is that the Saints had many other holes to fill. The same can be said about the Texans; they had huge holes all over the place and took a DE with the 1st overall pick, passing on Bush. The same can also be said about the Skins, as they are in need of a big possession receiver to help sustain drives and increase red zone proficiency. But the point I was making was that some feel team needs are trumped by high caliber players high in the draft. That's all. Different strokes for different folks.

Here is an absolute certainty - no matter what happens in this year's draft, some will be pleased and some will continue to criticize.

Gibbs and Williams would surprise me very much if they took a flashy player over a team player and even more if they selected any offensive players unless they found a way to solve the defensive concerns beforehand. Gibbs is brilliant so that is very possible too

Even if we had Moss and Owens this year we would not be able to do anything with them - we need to fix the defense and the offensive playmakers we have right now are much better suited to us than Moss and Owens OR the future best ever WR. We do not know about Johnson fitting in with our guys but we do know about Moss and Owens.

Calvin Johnson is not the second coming of Jerry Rice and even if he was, we don't have Joe Montana or Steve Young throwing him the ball.

Take Gaines Adams or Amobi Okoye at #6 or trade down and hope for the best. This talk about CJ is crazy. We don't have the luxury to buy the farm for this one player at a position that we're not lacking at. If we were looking for one or two puzzle pieces I'd be down with this pick, but far from it.

Go D.

The Redskins trade up, and take Calvin Johnson. Although there are no sure things, CJ is the least risk and could be an immediate impact player. Look what Moss did for the offense, and we still need a big time WR to take the pressure off Moss.

Sure, we need a another pass rusher, but Carter came on like gang busters late last year, so I think we can live with that.

This offense still only averaged less than 20 points per game last year, and struggled in the red zone big time. Given the lack of production from Lloyd (at best a 3rd receiver, not a 2nd), CJ would balance our two wide attack. We haven't had that kind of threat on the outside since Monk and Clark.

This guy has the strongest potential for being a #1 receiver, and we need that help for our young QB.

CJ is a no brainer, if we can get him.

SkinsFreak wrote:Floyd Reese and Ernie Accorsi were discussing the draft on ESPN a couple of weeks ago. Both reflected on their experiences in dealing with front offices from around the league at draft time. When specifically asked, both agreed that when teams have draft picks inside the top 10, a large percentage of executives feel that team needs are trumped when you're talking about players of this caliber, and you don't pass up the chance to acquire players like this. They established the philosophy that you take them and build around them. They subsequently referenced the Saints as the most recent example of this; selecting Reggie Bush when that wasn't a position of need, and still making a deep playoff run.

Floyd Reese said again today on NFL Live that when drafting high in the first round, they would NEVER draft for need. He said that when you draft for need, you will end up taking a player that should be selected around the 12th or 13th position and now you move them up to the 6th spot. So now you are stuck paying this guy #6 money and you're still left with that player who doesn't deserve to be drafted that high and isn't worth that money. And the guys you passed on are now playing against you.

Now, I remember back in 2004, there were some (I said "some" Fios, ) SOME experts and people that said TE was a major position of need for the Skins, especially in Gibbs' offense, and the Skins would be absolutely stupid to pass on Kellen Winslow Jr. And if I remember right, Mel Kiper was one of those people.

Well, as we all know, the Skins decided to pass on Winslow and took Sean Taylor with their 5th overall pick. Then, later in the draft, the Skins made a move, traded up in the 3rd round and took this stud TE by the name of Chris ey.

So in hindsight, selecting Taylor and then making a move for ey was a brilliant idea that worked out nicely. I think something similar will happen again this year. We are in desperate need of a DT or a DE, but I don't think that will come with our 1st pick, whether that is at #6 or elsewhere. (I don't think they'll go after CJ either )

I don't expect we'll take CJ either. We've had bad luck with WR in the first round (Gardner, Howard, Westbrook) but if ever there was a time to take a chance, this is it.

What we really need is another 1981 draft:

1. Mark May, T, Pittsburgh
3. Russ Grimm, G, Pittsburgh
4. Tom Flick, QB, Washington
5. Dexter Manley, DE, Oklahoma St.
6. Larry Kubin, LB, Penn St.
8. Charlie Brown, WR, South Carolina St.
9. Darryl Grant, G, Rice
10. Phil Kessel, QB, Northern Michigan
10. Allan Kennedy, T, Washington St.
11. Jerry Hill, WR, Northern Alabama
12. Clint Didier, WR, Portland St.

Probably the best Redskins single seasn draft of all time.

Gregg Williams should give Us The Redskins his blessing to trade up and take possibly the greatest recieving prospect since Jerry Rice. His words should be "Joe I'll give you a top 15 defense with the horses I have"

That would be a great line in a movie - not going to happen here

does calvin remind you guys of Mike Westbrook? I bet he could beat the snot out of stephen davis!

We dont need that dude like we need some d-line help.

Shoot whatever recievers we have wont be on the field if we dont patch up our D!

Saying we won't have to make that decision because he won't fall to 6 is a moot point because I think it's a consensus that we would have to trade up to #2 assuming the Raiders go qb which isn't a given by a long shot. People who are not adamant about us getting CJ don't get it...this guy is something special...he's not peter warrick he's art monk only faster.

he's not peter warrick he's art monk only faster

It would be more accurate to say he's TO or Randy Moss, but with Art Monk's attitude... I have no doubt he is that good, but, that still misses the point.

No player, and especially not a player who will touch the ball no more than 10 times a game, is worth what it would cost to get him.

The skin's should either:
a. Trade down for picks, or
b. Take the best availible player at 6 (most likely LaRon Landry). I won't be hurt if they take Okoye or one of a handful of other D linemen.

I have no problem with trying to get the 1st or 2nd pick - I would be very surprised if Gibbs gave up any picks for next year's draft to do that though - the only reason to trade up is to try and get Johnson and I really do not think we can make a better offer than Tampa will - PLUS - we are not going to be that good a team with Calvin Johnson this year that it makes any sense at all to give up the picks we are still going to need next year.

This team needs to start thinking about getting better this year and next - we can be a playoff team this year but we will not be with the world's best, all time, WR and a defense that cannot stop anyone.