The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

There's a chance we could offer a package to New England for their franchise tagged player, Asante Samuel. It would likely be similar to what we offered the Bears for their franchise tagged player Lance Briggs. So, if all things were equal, who would you rather have Samuel or Briggs?

Personally, I think CB is a much more dire need than LB, since we have a nice situation at LB with Marcus Washington and London Fletcher solid at two spots and veteran Lemar Marshall moving back to his natural position of weak side LB to compete with last years 2nd round pick Rocky McIntosh.

At CB we have Springs who has not agreed to restructure his contract despite repeated injuries and getting into the latter part of his career. Carlos Rogers and Smoot provide nice depth but both have serious question marks as every down starting CB's.

samual had 10 ints last year ( i think ) but he is one of those guys who is a freak because of the pats system, not because he is athletic gold. hes no champ baily

IF I had to choose I'd roll with our pick until draft day. I'd see how things unfold.

IF I had to choose between the 2 F/A's, Asante makes more sense imo.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:IF I had to choose I'd roll with our pick until draft day. I'd see how things unfold.

IF I had to choose between the 2 F/A's, Asante makes more sense imo.

Totally agree.

Asante had one good year. I think the jury is still out on him. I'm not saying he isn't good, but I'd like to see more than one year.

BTW - Please don't give up on Rogers. Yes he struggled last year at times, (he also played very well at times, like in the Panthers game) but he will be better this year. He plays the corner back position, one that can take a couple of years to master. See Asante Samuel.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:IF I had to choose I'd roll with our pick until draft day. I'd see how things unfold.

IF I had to choose between the 2 F/A's, Asante makes more sense imo.

New England has two picks in the first round this year, and both are higher than Chicago (24th and 28th). I'd take a first-round flip trade for Samuals for either of those picks, which I believe would still allow us to get a quality defensive lineman. However, I doubt NE would accept such a deal, and I wouldn't want Samuals enough to offer more.

Draft a DE that can get after the QB and our CBs will look a lot better.

Asante Samuel is not worth the #6 pick. Are we seriously entertaining this idea? Lance Briggs is a 2probowling , game changing, quarterback rushing run stuffing beast. Asante is a one year baller.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:IF I had to choose I'd roll with our pick until draft day. I'd see how things unfold.

IF I had to choose between the 2 F/A's, Asante makes more sense imo.

Yep.

Strongley prefer developing our own talent. What a concept.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Lance Briggs is a 2probowling , game changing, quarterback rushing run stuffing beast.

Quarterback rushing? As proven by his 3.5 sacks in his 4 year career, right?

Less than a sack a year. Lovely pass rush ability.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Asante Samuel is not worth the #6 pick. Are we seriously entertaining this idea? Lance Briggs is a 2probowling , game changing, quarterback rushing run stuffing beast. Asante is a one year baller.

QB rushing, game-changing beast? Lemar Marshall had more sacks than Lance Briggs over the last 2 years!!! and Briggs plays the weak-side, most often blitzed LB position of most 4-3 defenses! He's gone to the pro-bowl for his # of tackles and really nothing else (other than that he benefits from teams trying to figure how to get past Urlacher, T. Harris, Alex Brown etc.)

I agree Samuel is not worth a #6 pick, but when a guy is franchised, that generally is confirmation that at least a #1 pick will be required. The Pats could use the #6 pick to draft Leon Hall, but then you'd have to ask, why not just keep the pick and draft Leon Hall ourselves?

fleetus wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Asante Samuel is not worth the #6 pick. Are we seriously entertaining this idea? Lance Briggs is a 2probowling , game changing, quarterback rushing run stuffing beast. Asante is a one year baller.

QB rushing, game-changing beast? Lemar Marshall had more sacks than Lance Briggs over the last 2 years!!! and Briggs plays the weak-side, most often blitzed LB position of most 4-3 defenses! He's gone to the pro-bowl for his # of tackles and really nothing else (other than that he benefits from teams trying to figure how to get past Urlacher, T. Harris, Alex Brown etc.)

I agree Samuel is not worth a #6 pick, but when a guy is franchised, that generally is confirmation that at least a #1 pick will be required. The Pats could use the #6 pick to draft Leon Hall, but then you'd have to ask, why not just keep the pick and draft Leon Hall ourselves?

You are totally right ! That makes alot more since and I just hope the Skins do the right thing this time. But who knows.

Asante is NOT a one year wonder, and he is definitely a playmaker who is always around the ball. He would likely have a much greater impact on our defense than Briggs, and most importantly, CB is more of a need position for us than LB. It's hard to hide your deficiencies when playing corner no matter what system you play in, so the likelihood of him coming here and then not being a good fit is substantially less than with Briggs.


Here's the point differential from the NFL draft value chart between our pick and New England's:

6th = 1600


24th = 740

28th = 660

So swapping 6th and 28th picks is the equivalent of 940 points, or slightly less than the value of the 17th overall pick (950 pts).

Swapping 6th and 24th is a difference of 860 points, or slightly more than the value of the 20th overall pick (850 pts).

Last year Deion Branch was franchised by the Pats, and when he threatened to sit out the season (as Samual now has), the Pats traded him for a 1st rounder (the 24th) to Seattle.

Hopefully, IF we were to make any play for him, it would be a swap and not just us giving away the 6th, that would be ridiculous. I think Asante was a 4th rounder himself? Briggs was a 3rd rounder. Ideally, we start drafting bargains like these guys ourselves rather than swooping in and paying megabucks, but as long as we operate the cap better than anyone else...

I would think the Pats would probably want more than what they got for Deion Branch last year though. There is a premium on the CB position compared to WR... especially when Tom Brady is your QB. So we'll see...

I didn't see where the Skins were even mentioned in regards to Samual anyway though, so I guess we're only speculating?

I think Samuel is not a one year wonder. He has been getting better year after year. I really believe he is a top cornerback in the NFL. For some reason or other, he hasn't been given the credit he deserves I guess because he is not as fast as Champ, Hall. However, he is fast and knows how to read quaterbacks. (ask Payton). Anyway, in regards of us getting him, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!. We already adressed our need at cornerback by signing Smoooooooooooooott!!! All, I hope is that Roger gets better and Smoot plays as hard as he played the last season he was with us before becoming a free agent. Lastly, please somebody tell G william to place both of our Cornerbacks close to the WR's please.....they always stand too far back and are slow to react to short passes...I am out.

Ironically we should never sign him. The Skins and Gibbs bashers keep using New England as THE standard for why we suck. So,

If he is worth the fanchise tag, they won't let him go and we can't get him.

If he's not and they let him go, we should not sign him because he wasn't worth it.

So, we should not even attempt to sign him since we cannot get him without it being we should never have gotten him.

According to the Skins and Gibbs bashers. Sorry.

Well... in lieu of the Macklin signing, I doubt they want Asante, or ever even thought of the notion. Stupid media.

fleetus wrote:..Personally, I think CB is a much more dire need than LB, since we have a nice situation at LB with Marcus Washington and London Fletcher solid at two spots and veteran Lemar Marshall moving back to his natural position of weak side LB to compete with last years 2nd round pick Rocky McIntosh. .

You're right about the LBs and the fact that we need to be aware of our backfield players but the biggest need is the line. If we had 3 Samuels or Baileys (which ever you think is better) playing for us we would not be in the top 20 defensively without getting the pressure from our line and quality play from the LBs.

I guess that was your point though - after we get the line organised we also are going to have to have some depth with our safeties and CBs. Its just that we really do not need anyone as good as Samuels because anyone is going to look good back there if we get the sort of pressure and tackling we need from our front 7.

funbuncher wrote:Asante is NOT a one year wonder, and he is definitely a playmaker who is always around the ball. He would likely have a much greater impact on our defense than Briggs, and most importantly, CB is more of a need position for us than LB. It's hard to hide your deficiencies when playing corner no matter what system you play in, so the likelihood of him coming here and then not being a good fit is substantially less than with Briggs.

You know, I agree with your assesment of Samuels. But I'm beginning to re-think my stance on DB's and how easily they translate from system to system. I used to think that a starting CB was on an island an that no scheme (besides a monster front four) was going to really impove thier play. But with Smoot, Harris, Wright, etc. I've changed my mind.

Smoot was a top quality starting CB. Not top ten, but very solid. definetly a starter. He goes to Minny and barely makes the team. KennyWright was never expected to be a starter, but his last year in Jax he held his side of the field together and helped the Jags to get a #4 pass defense rank. He comes here....stinks. WaltHarris was only OK here....goes away....nearly leads the league in interceptions.

None of the above. Keep our no. 6.

HEROHAMO wrote:None of the above. Keep our no. 6.

I'm guessing you didn't actually look at the potential options to choose. I think you are one of the majority here.

jazzskins wrote:

funbuncher wrote:Asante is NOT a one year wonder, and he is definitely a playmaker who is always around the ball. He would likely have a much greater impact on our defense than Briggs, and most importantly, CB is more of a need position for us than LB. It's hard to hide your deficiencies when playing corner no matter what system you play in, so the likelihood of him coming here and then not being a good fit is substantially less than with Briggs.

You know, I agree with your assesment of Samuels. But I'm beginning to re-think my stance on DB's and how easily they translate from system to system. I used to think that a starting CB was on an island an that no scheme (besides a monster front four) was going to really impove thier play. But with Smoot, Harris, Wright, etc. I've changed my mind.

Smoot was a top quality starting CB. Not top ten, but very solid. definetly a starter. He goes to Minny and barely makes the team. KennyWright was never expected to be a starter, but his last year in Jax he held his side of the field together and helped the Jags to get a #4 pass defense rank. He comes here....stinks. WaltHarris was only OK here....goes away....nearly leads the league in interceptions.

Is it just me, or did you forget to finish your thought? I'm just not sure where you were going with this.

Champsturf wrote:

jazzskins wrote:You know, I agree with your assesment of Samuels. But I'm beginning to re-think my stance on DB's and how easily they translate from system to system. I used to think that a starting CB was on an island an that no scheme (besides a monster front four) was going to really impove thier play. But with Smoot, Harris, Wright, etc. I've changed my mind.

Smoot was a top quality starting CB. Not top ten, but very solid. definetly a starter. He goes to Minny and barely makes the team. KennyWright was never expected to be a starter, but his last year in Jax he held his side of the field together and helped the Jags to get a #4 pass defense rank. He comes here....stinks. WaltHarris was only OK here....goes away....nearly leads the league in interceptions.

Is it just me, or did you forget to finish your thought? I'm just not sure where you were going with this.

My thought was simply that Corner play doesn't always seem to translate well from team to team. A guy might be outstanding on one team and then mediocre in another scheme. Thats it.

That'd be a moot point if we had a good defensive line.

Both LB and CB are greatly effected by how the line plays.

I wonder if the Macklin signing will kill any plans to talk to Samuel.

We still don't have a #1 corner unless Springs play. In fact, some would argue we don't have a #2 corner either, although I think Rogers will be fine if the D-line improves any. So a lineup of Rogers, Smoot, MAcklin, Jimoh without Springs may really need a player like Samuel.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:That'd be a moot point if we had a good defensive line.

Both LB and CB are greatly effected by how the line plays.

And that my friends sums it all up right there!

I believe that Gibbs and especially Williams understand that their futures will be very much influenced by how well our D does in getting back into playing the sort of D that Williams' defenses are recognized for. Last year in my estimation was an aberration - good defensive coaches like Belichick and Williams do not have too many down years - I look for him to be all over these guys to improve this year - and for that to happen we need to stop the run and consistently be able to get the front 7 to really pressure the QB.

I am sure that with the growth of Cambell and Saunders (with Gibbs) offensive game planning the offense will be good to very good this year.




all the posturing and misleading that is going on is leading to this team trying to get the players that will:

1 help the D - IMO primarily on the line and with adjustments to the secondary.

2 depth on offense

We currently have the LB's and DB's to field an excellent defense. Contrary to Redskin land belief, WE DON'T need a superstar at every position. IF our defensive line re solidifies against the run and can at least pressure the QB consistently the rest of the defense will do fine.