The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:39 am**

Of course he is not the same, but I was thinking, Ladell Betts is probably the closet thing we have to John Riggins, Size vs Speed wise. I would go with Sellers more, but considering Seller isn't as fast, I would have to say Ladell Betts is probably the closet thing we have had to John Riggins for awhile.

Discuss

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:57 am**

Well... it's hard to compare anyone to Riggins, no disrespect to Betts. Earnest Byner always seems to jump into my mind when I watch the style in which Betts runs the ball. But regardless of comparisons, I really like having Betts in a tandem with #26.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:00 pm**

I like Betts too, but before we get too excited we need to keep in mind that Betts is careless with the ball at times. Portis may not be as powerful, but he gives everything he has running or blocking. The main point is he holds on to the ball. Betts will make one heck of a change of pace back, especially in the 4th quarter when the d-line is worn down. redskinsmiley

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:02 pm**

InsaneBoost wrote:Of course he is not the same, but I was thinking, Ladell Betts is probably the closet thing we have to John Riggins, Size vs Speed wise. I would go with Sellers more, but considering Seller isn't as fast, I would have to say Ladell Betts is probably the closet thing we have had to John Riggins for awhile.

Well, OK! I'm not sure what the point is. Fact is we have 2 backs and Portis is the better of the 2. Gibbs (& Saunders) both seem to indicate that they really like what they have in these 2 guys and I think we will see them both have really good seasons for us this season.

It seems that Betts wants to be a part of this offense too, because, rather than possibly try to get more $ (either here or elsewhere) he chose to accept a new deal and that is surely with the understanding that he will be both a back-up to portis BUT IMO more importantly because he thinks that both he and Portis will complement each other.

HTTR

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:14 pm**

Another thing about Betts is that he is also more than capable of returning kicks if need be. I love what Rock is doing, but if he gets banged up we don't drop off a bit w/ Betts deep. Wow we are stacked at RB

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:40 pm**

Portis and Betts next season.

It will be like Mack and Byner from the Browns. A great way for Campbell to learn at his own pace. Passing when we want to pass.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:53 pm**

Englands Team wrote:Portis and Betts next season.

It will be like Mack and Byner from the Browns. A great way for Campbell to learn at his own pace. Passing when we want to pass.

Yes, that will go a long way in increasing JC's confidence.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:31 pm**

Riggins was a punishing runner. Defenders hated to have to try to tackle him, especially late in games when they were tired and the Hogs were warmed up. I'd have to say Stephen Davis ran like Riggins more so than Betts. I'm not so sure Betts is the kind of back that defenders fear when tackling tackling him. Don't get me wrong....I like Betts and think he is a good back in tandem with Portis, I just think his style of running is not very similar to Riggins.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:39 pm**

Betts is not a power runner.

He is not like Riggins.

And I'd be reluctant to hand off to him with the game on the line due to his penchant for fumbling.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:19 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Betts is not a power runner.

He is not like Riggins.

And I'd be reluctant to hand off to him with the game on the line due to his penchant for fumbling.

Correct. He's not at all like Riggins. Betts is a slasher who's great at picking holes and hitting them at great speed; he's better than Portis at that, if not at other things. Riggins had great power and straight ahead speed, but few moves, and lacked quickness. Much of the time he looked like he wasn't trying to find holes but rather just inflict pain, which was probably the case. I see vitually no similarities between Betts and Riggings. Also, I've come to distrust the judgment of people older than me on Riggins. Younger fans remember the Super Bowl, that great season, and the fabulous run-- probably because they weren't tuned into Riggins before then. Actually, the guy was kind of a dog. He underachieved for most of his career and seemed to take entire games off, not just plays; and then later, run over everybody, even bothering to make cuts once in a while. He was exasperating.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:31 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Betts is not a power runner. He is not like Riggins. .. I'd be reluctant to hand off to him with the game on the line due to his penchant for fumbling.

agreed - nothing against Betts but he fills a different pair of shoes and he is a better receiver.

one similarity is that he will be a big contributor for the Redskins :lol:

crazyhorse1 wrote:.. I've come to distrust the judgment of people older than me

NO!

I'm not sure how many here would fall into this category, but I'll take your word for it :twisted:

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:33 pm**

Betts, no matter how good he may have been last season, is NOT among the top 5 Redskins RBs of all time in -any- possible comparison, whether it is as a skilled or a power runner like the Diesel.

The fact is that Betts is not really a swift running back capable of changing direction and turning on a dime, and he is not a power back whom might run over people (á la Riggins) either.

He can and very probably will be good in a tandem. But I would never want him to be my sole back. He is not bad. He is just not great for several circumstances and stages of the game. He is a good RB in a TANDEM.

So, who is more comparable but still better than Ladell in our past? How about Larry Brown? But Larry turned a lot better than Ladell can. I do not know really but I feel that Larry was a bit more physical in his run. Ah, and a lot fewer fumbles!

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:47 pm**

You're a brave man to bring up that comparison - Larry Brown was one of our greats IMO and Betts would have to have a couple of great seasons (and even more) to get mentioned with that great guy.

totally agree though that this tandem gives Saunders a lot of options and we will need depth if we are going to predominantly use both these guys as I think Saunders will :wink:

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:47 pm**

Hahahaha guys, dont get me mistaken, I wasn't saying he is Riggins, well I guess I did type it up that way, what I meant was he is the closest thing we have to Riggins today. Betts will be a bad man when he can hold on to that ball because he is only going to get better in years to come. And I will say Defenders are going to hate that. They'll be chasing Portis, and then Betts will come in to knock them flat on there back.

Cant wait!

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:55 pm**

InsaneBoost wrote:Hahahaha guys, dont get me mistaken, I wasn't saying he is Riggins, well I guess I did type it up that way, what I meant was he is the closest thing we have to Riggins today. Betts will be a bad man when he can hold on to that ball because he is only going to get better in years to come. And I will say Defenders are going to hate that. They'll be chasing Portis, and then Betts will come in to knock them flat on there back.

Cant wait!

Sellers is the closest thing we have to Riggins.
TJ was in the mold but didn't have the drive....maybe.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:15 pm**

No one we have is like Riggins at all.

Then short yardage was a guaranteed first down, now it's our Achilles heel.

I like Portis and he could be considered a great all time Redskin someday, but no one will confuse him for the Diesel ever.

Or if he keeps up what he does combining speed and open field power the Diesel with him.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:21 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
InsaneBoost wrote:Hahahaha guys, dont get me mistaken, I wasn't saying he is Riggins, well I guess I did type it up that way, what I meant was he is the closest thing we have to Riggins today. Betts will be a bad man when he can hold on to that ball because he is only going to get better in years to come. And I will say Defenders are going to hate that. They'll be chasing Portis, and then Betts will come in to knock them flat on there back.

Cant wait!

Sellers is the closest thing we have to Riggins.
TJ was in the mold but didn't have the drive....maybe.

Im not to sure, I know Sellers is insane and will knock the hell out of you, but is he as quick as Betts?

Strong choice, lol, its a close one for me.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:43 pm**

Betts doesn't run over people but he does drag people a few yards and has excellent vision, agility, and patience. He reminds me of Stephen Davis more than anybody except less powerful and more agile. Both of the aforementioned also get through the hole quickly once it develops. Very good backs.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:27 pm**

The ball Redskins ball carrier who runs most like Riggins ISN'T a running back... Compare...
the original:

the youngster:

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:09 pm**

Yes, Betts is Riggins...

And Todd Collins is Joe Theismann!

And David Patten is Art Monk!

And Khary Cambell is Monte Coleman!

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:52 am**

Considering the Skins seem to rush the ball a whole lot. It is nice that we have two backs to carry the load.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:54 am**

We underrate Betts. He averaged 4.7 per last year, better than Portis has ever done here, and is a much better pass receiver than Portis. He also has better eyes than Portis and hits the holes quicker. He's not as fast as Portis or as shifty, but gets stopped for short or no gain much less often. I love
the guy's skills but worry about his fragility, not his fumbling-- that's essentially a bad rap. His hands are very good and he is becoming more eperienced. His bad luck will even out.
I've said before on this board that fumbles are not always the ball carrier's fault and been criticized for it, but it's the truth. Anyone will fumble if hit hard enough; it's often just a matter of physics, momentary loss of consciousness, etc. It's also true that an aggressive runner running at maximum speed must expose the football; it's simply often a necessary risk if you're going to play the game correctly. Homerun hitters sometimes strike out because they're not bunting. Nobody runs well without giving the ball some exposure. There's also such a thing as a great strip or other great defensive play.
Quit crying about it.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:14 am**

crazyhorse1 wrote:We underrate Betts. He averaged 4.7 per last year, better than Portis has ever done here,

I'd like to see the difference in YPC between when MB04 was there and when JC took over. It's EASIER to run when you don't have 20 guys in the tackle box because they know your QB can't throw past his nose.

crazyhorse1 wrote:and is a much better pass receiver than Portis.

Better? Yes. Much better? Not by much.

crazyhorse1 wrote:He also has better eyes than Portis and hits the holes quicker.

IMO, Portis is too fast for our linemen.

My point is that it's unfair to judge the two because they played in two entirely different circumstances.

- CP has to play with 900 guys in the tackle box
- CP set an all-time Skins record
- CP took this team on its back with an at best mediocre passing game in 2005 to the playoffs.
- CP is a better blocker
- CP is knocks LB's out cold
- CP demands the attention of the defense and opens up the passing game. Betts does not garner the same attention but may get it eventually and we'll see how he does then.

Put CP in the game with JC where a defense KNOW's that Jason will pull the trigger. They CAN'T focus on CP anymore. CP is faster, more agile, he has homerun ability AND DOES NOT FUMBLE THE BALL.
Put CP in that situation and he'll beat out Betts every time.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:30 am**

^Word.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:25 am**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:We underrate Betts. He averaged 4.7 per last year, better than Portis has ever done here,

I'd like to see the difference in YPC between when MB04 was there and when JC took over. It's EASIER to run when you don't have 20 guys in the tackle box because they know your QB can't throw past his nose.

crazyhorse1 wrote:and is a much better pass receiver than Portis.

Better? Yes. Much better? Not by much.

crazyhorse1 wrote:He also has better eyes than Portis and hits the holes quicker.

IMO, Portis is too fast for our linemen.

You exaggerate. CP never faced more than 18 or 19 guys in the tackled box.
Nevertheless, your point is well taken. The matter can't really be evaluated until CP and Betts play under the same conditions. I can't wait.

One thing, however, you are wrong about. CP is not even an adequate receiver, whereas Betts is a good one, which was proved when MB was at the helm. CP can't reach anything that doesn't hit him in the pads-- lousy hands, too muscle bound and short armed to reach for the ball. He's a wash as a receiver.

My point is that it's unfair to judge the two because they played in two entirely different circumstances.

- CP has to play with 900 guys in the tackle box
- CP set an all-time Skins record
- CP took this team on its back with an at best mediocre passing game in 2005 to the playoffs.
- CP is a better blocker
- CP is knocks LB's out cold
- CP demands the attention of the defense and opens up the passing game. Betts does not garner the same attention but may get it eventually and we'll see how he does then.

Put CP in the game with JC where a defense KNOW's that Jason will pull the trigger. They CAN'T focus on CP anymore. CP is faster, more agile, he has homerun ability AND DOES NOT FUMBLE THE BALL.
Put CP in that situation and he'll beat out Betts every time.

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Betts = Riggins ???

Betts = Riggins ???

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