The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:12 pm**

I read at NFL.com that the Redskins had a large amount of people at his pro day. They said Dan Snyder (owner), Joe Gibbs (head coach), Al Saunders (offensive coordinator), Vinny Cerrato (vice president of football operations) and Jack Burns (offensive assistant) were all present for the pro day. I know the Redskins are linked by the media to any and every transaction that occurs in the NFL, but why would the owner and basically the entire offensive coaching staff be at his pro day if they weren't thinking about trading up.

Thoughts

link:
http://nfl.com/draft/analysis/individua ... uts#GAtech

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:16 pm**

He's supposedly considered the best player in the draft. Even though we don't need him some people say that you don't always draft your need, you take the best person available.

1. I'm a fan of getting a dlinmen.
2. I'm in favor of trading down.
3. I'm not ethused about it but I wouldnt be mad if we took Calvin, imo we need a big WR. I dont think now is the time and Lloyd;s leaping ability can fill that need for now.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:22 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:He's supposedly considered the best player in the draft. Even though we don't need him some people say that you don't always draft your need, you take the best person available.

1. I'm a fan of getting a dlinmen.
2. I'm in favor of trading down.
3. I'm not ethused about it but I wouldnt be mad if we took Calvin, imo we need a big WR. I dont think now is the time and Lloyd;s leaping ability can fill that need for now.

I agree. I have been enjoying the fact that us Redskin fans may have a reason to watch the entire draft next year, and if we move up this year in the draft, you know that will mean we gave away picks for next year. Seeing their interest does scare me a little bit, but like you also said, he would be the big reciever we need, with speed to go with his large frame.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:31 pm**

SKIN4LIFE wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:He's supposedly considered the best player in the draft. Even though we don't need him some people say that you don't always draft your need, you take the best person available.

1. I'm a fan of getting a dlinmen.
2. I'm in favor of trading down.
3. I'm not ethused about it but I wouldnt be mad if we took Calvin, imo we need a big WR. I dont think now is the time and Lloyd;s leaping ability can fill that need for now.

I agree. I have been enjoying the fact that us Redskin fans may have a reason to watch the entire draft next year, and if we move up this year in the draft, you know that will mean we gave away picks for next year. Seeing their interest does scare me a little bit, but like you also said, he would be the big receiver we need, with speed to go with his large frame.

And by some weird stroke of "luck" he may be available at the 6th spot, so they'll need to know what he can do depending on what they need to do. Everyone is interested in this kid but I doubt we really want him.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:23 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:And by some weird stroke of "luck" he may be available at the 6th spot, so they'll need to know what he can do depending on what they need to do. Everyone is interested in this kid but I doubt we really want him.

I would love to see him drop to the 6th pick but that will not happen and, even if he did, he'd simply become a much larger bargaining chip, the pick would net the Redskins that much more.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:18 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:He's supposedly considered the best player in the draft. Even though we don't need him some people say that you don't always draft your need, you take the best person available.

1. I'm a fan of getting a dlinmen.
2. I'm in favor of trading down.
3. I'm not ethused about it but I wouldnt be mad if we took Calvin, imo we need a big WR. I dont think now is the time and Lloyd;s leaping ability can fill that need for now.

I totally agree.

I know we need defensive Lineman. But if Calvin was available at 6 how can anyone seriously pass on this beast of an athlete?

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:52 pm**

CJ would be amazing opposite Santana, that would be amazing for our offense, if we could get him, without losing too much we should take it.

That said, we need DLINE... but

It isn't completely out of the question that he could be there for us after Jamarcus, Adrian Pete tearing it up at their pro days

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:20 am**

Part of the draft game is in keeping the rest of the league guessing, and (hopefully) guessing wrong. I suspect the trip to watch Johnson had more to do with that, than the real plan.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:28 am**

Folks, Tampa Bay was 28th in TD receptions, 28th in receiving yards, 29th in receiving first-downs and 30th in passes over 20 yards. They will NOT pass on Johnson should he drop to them.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:08 am**

The only way I see them passing on CJ is if for some weired reason Jemarcus Russell is still available.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:12 am**

This draft is going to very interesting. It's nice having a reason to watch it this year.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:46 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This draft is going to very interesting. It's nice having a reason to watch it this year.

Well...for part of it at least *grin*.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:16 pm**

Countertrey wrote:Part of the draft game is in keeping the rest of the league guessing, and (hopefully) guessing wrong. I suspect the trip to watch Johnson had more to do with that, than the real plan.

Prior to drafting JC, I would tend to agree with this statement. But I think some of us thought the Skins had a similar plan when Joe was visiting Auburn a couple years ago (i.e. let's let the rest of the league think we might be interested in Jason Campbell...). In actuality, we truly were interested in JC and acted accordingly.

Johnson would be a steal, but I think we need to be sure we have good blockers up front (along with a solid DL pick) before we get too excited about a new WR. Just my My 2 cents

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:07 pm**

Isn't CJ a junior coming out early? I really like him, but this is my only concern about him. Never a big fan of WRs coming out early.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:46 pm**

I normally would say NEVER draft a WR in the first round especially in light of our recent WR pickups (westbrook, and Jacobs although he was 2nd rounder) BUT... CJ is a freaking Manimal. Hes got great size and amazing Speed for someone that big. Talk about opeing things up and giving Clinton running lanes. I think i was reading today somewhere that EVERY SINGLE team in the nfl has him as the best player period. Dude came to the combine and wasnt even going to run, then borrowed someone elses shoes, and proceeded to shoot his ass out of cannon. Now im not buying all the hype becase i remember many "next great" WR's (mike williams, Charles rogers, Braylon edwards etc) but I wouldnt mind at all if we were able to snatch him up. That being said.... it will NEVER happen. No way he slips past Tampa, unless someone gives them the house ala champ bailey/ricky williams that we pulled.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:56 pm**

Gibbs' Hog wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Part of the draft game is in keeping the rest of the league guessing, and (hopefully) guessing wrong. I suspect the trip to watch Johnson had more to do with that, than the real plan.

Prior to drafting JC, I would tend to agree with this statement. But I think some of us thought the Skins had a similar plan when Joe was visiting Auburn a couple years ago (i.e. let's let the rest of the league think we might be interested in Jason Campbell...). In actuality, we truly were interested in JC and acted accordingly.

Johnson would be a steal, but I think we need to be sure we have good blockers up front (along with a solid DL pick) before we get too excited about a new WR. Just my

Maybe the were not there to see CJ they could have been looking at this guy

Strengths: Possesses adequate upper-body strength and flashes a strong punch. Shows good initial quickness and flashes the ability to beat defenders to the point of attack. Moves well laterally when run blocking and can reach defenders lined up outside him. Has adequate range, generally plays under control and can adjust to the moving target at the second level. Gets into pass set quickly and uses long arms to ride edge rushers past the pocket. Has quick feet and flashes the ability to redirect inside after starting outside. While lined up at defensive tackle for first three seasons of his collegiate career, showed good progress during one season lining up at tackle and should only get better as he gains experience. Though projects at guard, has experience lining up at tackle and is somewhat versatile.

Weaknesses: Doesn't always drive legs once in position, doesn't get great hand placement and has some problems sustaining blocks. Lacks a mean streak and isn't physical enough. Doesn't take great angles to blocks and has some problems getting into position. Stands up coming out of his stance and occasionally gets stalemated at the line of scrimmage. Lacks ideal experience, can take poor angles to downfield blocks and doesn't show a great understanding of position at this point. Bends at the waist rather than the knees, lacks elite size and can get pushed back into the pocket. Footwork is inconsistent and can lose balance when forced to change directions quickly.

Overall: Wrotto began his career at defensive tackle where he played in all 13 games with 12 starts as a true freshman in 2003, registering 14 total tackles (three solo) including four for loss, one sack, and one fumble recovery. In 2004, he played in all 12 games making nine starts and finished the year with 18 total tackles (four solo), including 3.5 tackles for loss, and 0.5 sacks. During spring practice in 2005, Wrotto worked out as a left guard but was switched back to defense before the season. He then appeared in all 12 games in 2005, this time with 11 starts, recording 13 total tackles (seven solo), 4.5 tackles for loss, and 3.5 sacks. Wrotto returned to the offensive line for bowl practices in December 2005 where he worked out at tackle. He officially moved over to the offensive side for the 2006 season and started all 14 games at right tackle.
Wrotto is a developmental prospect who isn't fundamentally sound and needs to be more aggressive at times. The good news is those two weaknesses can be attributed to his lack of experience at the position. If he continues to improve and gets good coaching in the NFL, he has the size, quickness and athletic ability to develop into a starter. As a result, Wrotto is worthy of an early second-day pick.

He may be around on day two

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:09 pm**

I hope we are not idiotic enough to move up (even one spot) in the draft to take a flipping WR. Last time the Skins did this it was so Gibbs could get Desmond Howard, you see how well that worked.

I would puke if we did that. I would still be ill if C.J. for some reason fell to us at 6 and we took him. Imagine how many picks we could get from a team that wants this guy.

NO WR EVER HAS BEEN WORTH A TOP TEN PICK. Even Monk and Jerry Rice. WRs are complimentary pieces of a puzzle, they are not difference makers. San Fran wins just as many SB if they don't have Rice and the Skins won 3 SB's (one with Monk, one without, and one were he was gimpy). Dallas still wins 3 SBs in the 90's without Irvin. The Patriots still win 3 SBs without... oh yeah, they didn't have any WRs.

WR are just not difference makers. Look at Arizona. The best tandom of WRs (you might argue Wayne and Harrison) in the NFL, and the Cards still suck!

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:48 pm**

Fios wrote:..I would love to see him drop to the 6th pick but that will not happen and, even if he did, he'd simply become a much larger bargaining chip, the pick would net the Redskins that much more.

exactly - we will not be drafting this future great WR - we will either be getting a future great defensive lineman or "using" the pick to help get as many future great players as we can :lol:

I understand that the NFL consider the player's pro-day as even more important than the combine "stats" so it would not surprise me that everybody who is involved with scrutinizing talent for us were at all of the pro-days of as many quality players as they can be. I hope that our talent guys get a really good idea of everyone they can because they sure have been screwing it all up the past few years.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:24 pm**

Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, Rod Gardner, Michael Westbrook, Tydus Winans, Desmond Howard, and then throw in Albert Connell, Erik Affholter, Walter Murray, Carl Powell, Art Monk.

All receivers drafted early since 1980 by the Redskins. Obviously, one name stands out, but Monk was drafted in 1980, and his name only serves to highlight the futility of the rest of the names on the list. I don't know - something tells me we should steer clear of wide receivers in the draft. We just don't seem to be able to pick 'em.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:50 pm**

Now, don't kill the messenger. Johnson was on Cold Pizza this morning and they just finished talking about him on NFL Live. Michael Smith seems to think that the Buc's have numerous young wide-outs currently on the roster, including Michael Clayton, and will pass on CJ. He thinks they will target an offensive guard or tackle.

He was subsequently asked where would be the best fit for CJ. Smith said that the Skins would be the perfect fit for CJ. He went on to say, something like..."Could you imagine... Campbell, with Portis and Betts behind him, throwing to Moss, Cool

ey and Calvin Johnson??? That offense would be unstoppable!" Smith thinks the Skins will land CJ.

I know we need d-line help, but I'd take Johnson in a split second if he fell to #6. I'd even consider giving the Buc's our 6th pick and Lloyd for their 4th pick, to draft Johnson. I honestly think he is well worth it and will pay huge dividends to whoever gets him. I truly believe that because I watched the kid play. He is a far better talent than Edwards, Williams, Rogers and others that some of you have pointed out to be busts and as a reason not to draft Johnson.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:57 pm**

If CJ falls to us we better trade down and get loads of picks for this year and next years 1st or 2nd pick....

If we keep him I wont be too mad.

JC
Moss
Calvin
Are
Lloyd
Cool

ey
Portis

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:08 pm**

SkinsFreak wrote:Now, don't kill the messenger. Johnson was on Cold Pizza this morning and they just finished talking about him on NFL Live. Michael Smith seems to think that the Buc's have numerous young wide-outs currently on the roster, including Michael Clayton, and will pass on CJ. He thinks they will target an offensive guard or tackle.

He was subsequently asked where would be the best fit for CJ. Smith said that the Skins would be the perfect fit for CJ. He went on to say, something like..."Could you imagine... Campbell, with Portis and Betts behind him, throwing to Moss, ey and Calvin Johnson??? That offense would be unstoppable!" Smith thinks the Skins will land CJ.

I know we need d-line help, but I'd take Johnson in a split second if he fell to #6. I'd even consider giving the Buc's our 6th pick and Lloyd for their 4th pick, to draft Johnson. I honestly think he is well worth it and will pay huge dividends to whoever gets him. I truly believe that because I watched the kid play. He is a far better talent than Edwards, Williams, Rogers and others that some of you have pointed out to be busts and as a reason not to draft Johnson.

I understand he adds a dimension our current receivers don't have and he seem can't miss. Like Desmond and Westbrook were.

But I just don't get it, we take a big cap hit on Lloyd and use our #1 for a position we're deep on and are screwed with the DL in a draft that seems will have quality available when we pick.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to be in a position to look to get Johson, but I just don't see for us at this time how it makes sense. And we'd be more cap constrained with Springs unresolved and the DL not addressed. Our D has to improve, we don't want to be wanting JC to win games for us all the time becuase the D can't get a stop again.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:23 pm**

Michael Clayton? Michael Smith thinks that the Bucs will pass on Calvin Johnson, an absolute monster at WR, because they have Michael Clayton??? What has he done over his career? Wasn't he supposed to start producing 2 years ago?

I don't think there's any way that Johnson falls to #6, and I'd be shocked if the Bucs didn't take him. He's the kind of downfield threat and playmaker that they should and have been looking for.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:48 pm**

1) Why would Tampa POSSIBLY take Lloyd?
2) gibbs4president is correct, there is zero chance he drops past that fourth pick. If Smith had bothered to do any research whatsoever he would have seen how awful Tampa's wideouts were last year.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:08 pm**

I totally agree with everything everyone has said. Smith, like most everyone, has an opinion. He also talked about how CJ would significantly help our red-zone offense. But, if you look at the Buc's roster, the do have several young wide-outs, albeit no-namers, but several WR's nonetheless.

Two years ago, most Skins fans, including me, thought they were going to draft Mike Williams with the 9th overall pick. At the end of that day, I think most of us were very surprised that they took Carlos and Jason in the 1st round. We were expecting an offensive player, but instead they took a defensive player with the 9th pick. Now, two years later, I think we all can agree that passing on Williams was a smart move, as Jason and Carlos show real potential. For some strange reason though, I think the opposite may happen this year. We are expecting defense and may end up with offense. As for me, I like Johnson, and based on pure football talent, I would take him over any defensive player in this draft.

BTW - as much as I like CJ, in my heart I still think we should target the d-line, but only if we trade down. If we were to stay at #6 and not trade down, I would take Johnson straight up over Branch, Adams, Anderson or Okoye. IMO, this caliber of player trumps team needs. But only if he's there for the taking. He probably won't be and we will end up taking a defensive guy.

BUT,

JC
Moss
Calvin
Are
Lloyd
ey
Betts
Portis

... and that o-line? Daaaaaaaammmmmnnnnn!

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

We may have interest in Calvin Johnson?

We may have interest in Calvin Johnson?