The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

come draft day, and if they exercise some restraint of their own they will reap the windfall.

First off, dont for a second be fooled that just b/c the Browns signed jamel lewis that means they arent looking at Adrian petersen. Lewis' best years are behind him; he is fat, slowed down, and not even close to being the runner he once was. Plus, he signed a one year deal from what I hear. Peterson would be the perfect draft pick here b/c it allows them to get a player that will be their feature back for a decade and bring him along slowly the first year (15 carries per game) while Lewis carries the bulk of the time. The Browns have been burned in the recent past with gambles on running backs, but petersen is the real deal and it makes sense for them to bring him along slowly and make sure he is fully recovered from that nasty injury he sustained last year.

It is most likely that Quinn will still be there come the 6 pick, and we all know there are several teams interested in him. Also, one or more fo the defensive studs will be there.

let the bidding begin. It would be silly for the Skins to trade OUT of this slot before draft day. If Quinn is still there and the y really covet Quinn, they will open up the bank to get him. Quinn has essentially played the patriots offense the past 2 years udner Charlie Weiss, so his transition to the pros will be that much easier.

With the Skins signing Travis Fisher, they have essentially told the Broncos this - we still want Bly, but he is no longer a NEED. We have Smoot, Rogers, Springs, Fisher and Jimoh back there. If youw ant 6, and we know you do, you better come to the table with the 21st pick, your 2d round pick, and BOTh of your 3rd round picks. That would be an AWESOME deal for the Skins.

Still, if the TExans want that pick even more, they could offer more since their draft picks are that much higher than the Skins.

This will be fascinating to watch unfold. What the Skins cannot do is panic right now. They must exercise restraint as they are truly in the driver's seat.

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Are you already censoring me? take time to familiarize myself? I have been reading Hogsnet for about 6 months now and finally decided it was time to post b/c people just go off on ridiculous rumors. Frankly, I hadnt seen what i posted here posted by anyone, which is why I posted what i did....if every post of mine, which wont be many, is going to be met with that type of response I will go elsewhere....sorry about the double post. Was accidental.

sonofyens wrote:Are you already censoring me? take time to familiarize myself? I have been reading Hogsnet for about 6 months now and finally decided it was time to post b/c people just go off on ridiculous rumors. Frankly, I hadnt seen what i posted here posted by anyone, which is why I posted what i did....if every post of mine, which wont be many, is going to be met with that type of response I will go elsewhere....sorry about the double post. Was accidental.

Huh?
'Welcome to the board."
"we hope you enjoy your time here"
"Thanks and httr"

Censored? Did I delete or modify your post? How on earth have you been censored? I didn't even lock the thread for pete's sake.

I welcomed you to the board and I asked you to make sure you checked out the search feature...

I'm not claivoyant... I have no idea how long you have or haven't been on the site. And just because you've been here 6 months... doesn't mean that you've ever read the rules.

If you have been here for 6 months, then you would know that as moderators we always welcome people to the board, point them to the search button and the main site, and ask them to look around before posting so as to not create redundant posting.

You also posted the exact same thing twice, and so I asked you nicely not to do that and then explained to you how you can delete a post if you accidentally post twice SINCE IT WAS YOUR FIRST EVER POST AND YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW HOW TO DO SO.

Stop being so sensitive...

... or go elsewhere if you think I've been unreasonable.... no skin off my nose man.

Yeah, the mods can be a bit bossy round here.

Well, in an attempt to keep this discussioin going in a football direction, I'd like to ask, are you suggesting the Skins might draft Quinn? I understand there is a small chance his value could elevate in such a way as to attract trade up partners for the Skins at #6. However, he is not currently expected to go that high and certainly would not be atarget by the Skins. In addition, if the Broncos did deal for the #6, it would be to draft a DL just like we will if we keep the pick.

In summary, I'll just say, I'm a big fan of building through the draft and nothing would please me more than to see a stockpile of 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks come to us in a trade. But Snyder/Cerrato have such a long history of giving away so many good draft picks it doesn't make sense they would accept a trade down package to get those picks back. Seems kind of a silly strategy. So I'm guessing we'll keep that pick unless they can trade it for a free agent like Bly. What picks they get in return doesn't ever seem to be a major concern with these guys.

cleg wrote:Yeah, the mods can be a bit bossy round here.

There are also a lot of people who post here with severe mental defects.

cleg wrote:Yeah, the mods can be a bit bossy round here.

Bossy mod steps in in a effort to get this thread back on topic, by moving post to New Thread only to come back and find we may never know what people think about when the #6 pick should be moved because of all the Bossy Mod coments.

Anywho.
If we were offered Denver's #1, #2, and both thirds plus Al Wilson and we turned it down only for them to swap Wilson's name for Bly's, what will they offer if the Houston talks heat up? Not much more (they want a D-lineman) when whoever is there at #6 will probably be there at #8. Waiting until Draft day gives us the chance to make BOTH deals. But if Quinn goes early the Houston will fall off the radar.

Then again making the trade with Denver now would allow the team to prepare better for draft day.

If talks with Green Bay gets in the mix (being out of the top 15) Denver may up the ante.

sonofyens wrote:It is most likely that Quinn will still be there come the 6 pick, and we all know there are several teams interested in him. Also, one or more fo the defensive studs will be there.

Looking at the Lions and what they are doing they could draft Quinn and this whole idea of holding on to the pick could blow up in the teams face.

RBs Tatum Bell and T.J. Duckett, T George Foster and DE Dewayne White have all been added in the last two weeks so drafting a QB isn't out of the question.

Denver isn't looking for a QB though...

1niksder wrote:

sonofyens wrote:It is most likely that Quinn will still be there come the 6 pick, and we all know there are several teams interested in him. Also, one or more fo the defensive studs will be there.

Looking at the Lions and what they are doing they could draft Quinn and this whole idea of holding on to the pick could blow up in the teams face.

RBs Tatum Bell and T.J. Duckett, T George Foster and DE Dewayne White have all been added in the last two weeks so drafting a QB isn't out of the question.

Denver isn't looking for a QB though...

That would make sense, which is why it's preposterous! This is the Lions. The team that drafted a wide receiver 3 years in a row with a high first round pick.

The team I am intimately familiar as I grew up in Ka(lama)zoo.

Peterson is a LOCK for them to draft for the reasons you just stated.

And may I add 3 more words?

Matt Mill En.

1niksder wrote:

sonofyens wrote:It is most likely that Quinn will still be there come the 6 pick, and we all know there are several teams interested in him. Also, one or more fo the defensive studs will be there.

Looking at the Lions and what they are doing they could draft Quinn and this whole idea of holding on to the pick could blow up in the teams face.

RBs Tatum Bell and T.J. Duckett, T George Foster and DE Dewayne White have all been added in the last two weeks so drafting a QB isn't out of the question.

Denver isn't looking for a QB though...

Don't sweat it, the Lions would have to be run by an idiot to draft anyone other than Joe Thomas at that spot.
Sigh.
I am praying that Millen has some modicum of common sense and recognizes how bad their offensive line actually is. The Lions averaged a whopping 70.6 rushing yards per game last season. And, just for fun, they gave up 63 sacks. They essentially gave up a sack on every ninth passing play.

Fios wrote:Don't sweat it, the Lions would have to be run by an idiot to draft anyone other than Joe Thomas at that spot.
Sigh.

I was going to say "Um...", but you covered that with "sigh."

Fios wrote:

1niksder wrote:

sonofyens wrote:It is most likely that Quinn will still be there come the 6 pick, and we all know there are several teams interested in him. Also, one or more fo the defensive studs will be there.

Looking at the Lions and what they are doing they could draft Quinn and this whole idea of holding on to the pick could blow up in the teams face.

RBs Tatum Bell and T.J. Duckett, T George Foster and DE Dewayne White have all been added in the last two weeks so drafting a QB isn't out of the question.

Denver isn't looking for a QB though...

Don't sweat it, the Lions would have to be run by an idiot to draft anyone other than Joe Thomas at that spot.
Sigh.
I am praying that Millen has some modicum of common sense and recognizes how bad their offensive line actually is. The Lions averaged a whopping 70.6 rushing yards per game last season. And, just for fun, they gave up 63 sacks. They essentially gave up a sack on every ninth passing play.

no question their line is bad, but those stats could be a bit overinflated for a few reasons...

the martz offense is inherently pass-wacky to begin with. combine that with a lousy defense, and you're getting way behind in every game and having to pass all the time to catch up. this would lead to both lower rushing yards AND more sacks, even with a decent line.

again, not saying they're not bad, just maybe not quite as bad as the stats would suggest. maybe they are that bad, idunno, didn't really watch a whole lot of lions games last year.

die cowboys die wrote:

Fios wrote:

1niksder wrote:

sonofyens wrote:It is most likely that Quinn will still be there come the 6 pick, and we all know there are several teams interested in him. Also, one or more fo the defensive studs will be there.

Looking at the Lions and what they are doing they could draft Quinn and this whole idea of holding on to the pick could blow up in the teams face.

RBs Tatum Bell and T.J. Duckett, T George Foster and DE Dewayne White have all been added in the last two weeks so drafting a QB isn't out of the question.

Denver isn't looking for a QB though...

Don't sweat it, the Lions would have to be run by an idiot to draft anyone other than Joe Thomas at that spot.
Sigh.
I am praying that Millen has some modicum of common sense and recognizes how bad their offensive line actually is. The Lions averaged a whopping 70.6 rushing yards per game last season. And, just for fun, they gave up 63 sacks. They essentially gave up a sack on every ninth passing play.

no question their line is bad, but those stats could be a bit overinflated for a few reasons...

the martz offense is inherently pass-wacky to begin with. combine that with a lousy defense, and you're getting way behind in every game and having to pass all the time to catch up. this would lead to both lower rushing yards AND more sacks, even with a decent line.

again, not saying they're not bad, just maybe not quite as bad as the stats would suggest. maybe they are that bad, idunno, didn't really watch a whole lot of lions games last year.

Green Bay threw the ball more often than Detroit and allowed 39 fewer sacks. In fact, of the top 5 teams in terms of passing attempts, only Detroit allowed more than 50 sacks. St. Louis (49) and Miami (41) were the closest to Detroit. The Lions also committed 116 penalties on offense. If we assume a third of those were on the line (and I'd wager that is conservative) the line was averaging almost 2.5 penalties a game.

If we assume a third of those were on the line (and I'd wager that is conservative) the line was averaging almost 2.5 penalties a game.

That's a safe bet, since the majority of penalties are offensive holds and false starts, especially at the beginning of the season.

In terms of the lions, I think that they an't go wrong by drafting Quinn or Thomas. They have a need at both, but qb is a bit more important with martz, but either way they win.

As for us being in the driver's seat, it's awesome. They just need to not panic, and prepare for all the possible situations that oculd occur on draft day to be ready, and if nothing happens, we still win with the chance to pickup a true playmaker at #6

Even if we don't have a deal in place at the time of our selection, I think we should take one of the 5 coveted players in this draft and then trade the player to the highest bidder. Whether it's Quinn, Peterson, Thomas, Johnson, or Russell, just whoever drops to us. I think Laron Landry will definitely go in the top 10 as well.

fleetus wrote:Well, in an attempt to keep this discussioin going in a football direction, I'd like to ask, are you suggesting the Skins might draft Quinn? I understand there is a small chance his value could elevate in such a way as to attract trade up partners for the Skins at #6. However, he is not currently expected to go that high and certainly would not be atarget by the Skins. In addition, if the Broncos did deal for the #6, it would be to draft a DL just like we will if we keep the pick.

In summary, I'll just say, I'm a big fan of building through the draft and nothing would please me more than to see a stockpile of 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks come to us in a trade. But Snyder/Cerrato have such a long history of giving away so many good draft picks it doesn't make sense they would accept a trade down package to get those picks back. Seems kind of a silly strategy. So I'm guessing we'll keep that pick unless they can trade it for a free agent like Bly. What picks they get in return doesn't ever seem to be a major concern with these guys.

I certainly have a tendency to agree with your asessment in regards to our #6 pick. Everywhere I read is trade down, trade down, but knowing this coaching staff, and their inability to develop young players, stockpiling young talent in exchange for our #6 is a waste. We need an impact player for our less than stellar D-Line who can step in and play now. We drafted Rocky McIntosh in the 2nd round last year, moved up in the round to take him, he hardly saw the field. There will not be many new players to make this team anyway, and to trade out of #6 for players who may not even make the team does not make a lot of sense. This defense needs help NOW, and we should not sacrafice the opportunity to get that help by experimenting with projects that offer no guarentee.

You have to wait until draft day. Making a deal earlier than that is just plain silly. The price always goes up when the pick is on the clock and desperate teams have to act. It's leverage.

If we like Anderson, Gaines, Okoye and Branch (big on Okoye!) then trading down with either Houston#8 or Buffalo#12 would allow us to still get our guy and add more draft choices. To simply claim that we can't develop young players and therefore should give up on young talent is really just a gross over-simplification of a complex situation. We have Campbell, Taylor, ey and Betts (among others) to dispute that claim. Didn't we draft Dockery in the 3rd round, develop him and he just signed a 49 mil deal? We need to stick to our guns on draft day and make a team overpay us for a change.

fleetus wrote:You have to wait until draft day. Making a deal earlier than that is just plain silly. The price always goes up when the pick is on the clock and desperate teams have to act. It's leverage.

If we like Anderson, Gaines, Okoye and Branch (big on Okoye!) then trading down with either Houston#8 or Buffalo#12 would allow us to still get our guy and add more draft choices. To simply claim that we can't develop young players and therefore should give up on young talent is really just a gross over-simplification of a complex situation. We have Campbell, Taylor, ey and Betts (among others) to dispute that claim. Didn't we draft Dockery in the 3rd round, develop him and he just signed a 49 mil deal? We need to stick to our guns on draft day and make a team overpay us for a change.

Taylor was picked 5th overall, no trade involved therefore it't not likely you can go wrong with a player picked that high, and even he didn't get on the field to start. ey was an exception, he had the ability to fill a real need at the time, so his insertion into the lineup was not suprising. Dockery came here during the Spurrier era, had he come during the Gibbs era, it's doubtful he would have gotten an opporyunity so soon. Betts likewise was here when Gibbs arived but saw his share of the bench before he got an opportunity. Jason Campbell was carrying the board for fifteen months before he got his opportunity. Had Brunell remained healthy and performed better, he may not have gotten his opportunity when he did. When you consider the number of players drafted in conjunction to those starting and playing under Gibbs watch, the retio is not good. Looks like four players, Taylor, Rogers, ey, and Campbell who just got to play the last seven games of last season.

You're not taking into account that we give away some draft picks every year. Over three years, we don't have 21-24 drafted players like most teams, we've only had 16. Of those 16 only 5 have been in the top three rounds. Most teams had 9 players in the top 3 rounds.

Of the 5 players we've drafted in the top three rounds under Gibbs, all are starters except McIntosh. McIntosh has only been here one season and will have a real shot at starting this year, especially since Gibbs fired LB coach Dale Lindsay, who was opposed to giving McIntosh a chance to start over Holdman.