The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

And damnit, forgive me. I'm 19, I'm young, I need constant stimulation, suffering from ADD. But am I the only person not having "fun".

Lets start out with the good points.

McCullough? F**king amazing, Candidate better show and prove. I was thoroughly impressed. He has some power, he has the moves, the speed.

Rob Johnson? I thought everyone said he was horrible...? I thought everyone said he wasn't the way to go. Well damnit he impressed me. Yeah he holds the ball a bit, but not as badly as it was made out to be. He has a great arm, he's not Vick but he'll out run some folk. He audibled half-way good. And scored the only TD, which was called back.

Cloman = Wow great guy. He played hurt, and great Wuerffel had the poor man over extending to re-injure himself. Great reception while he was covered.

Jacobs = Noticed his route-running ability, and knowledge of the offense.

Ramsey = He did pretty well, showed his maturity in the system and seems to have pocket prescense this year. Though once you feel the prescense you need to be able to evade.

And now the long list of the bad.

1st string O-Line = Ok, yeah they need to meld, mesh, become cohesive. But I was a little dissapointed. I knew they weren't going to be GREAT but they allowed a lot of pressure. But I noticed that they didn't have a lot of help from the TE, and backs. *If Spurrier doesn't use the TE a lot, let the man block* This running game will NOT work if we can't block. Especially with someone with no power as a RB. I don't care what anyone says, Candidate isn't knocking anyone on their ass, cept maybe a small CB or kicker.

Ramsey = Just needs to work on his leg work. But its hard to make something out of nothing. And wut I mean by that is, Ramsey isn't fast and you can't do things to make you faster. You either are or you aren't. I know you can improve slightly but I don't think with any amount of training that Ramsey could outrun Johnson, and Johnson isn't that fast.

Candidate = Did he play? I think once or twice, nothing memorable.

Coles = Yes.....I almost orgasmed.

D-Line = Wow. Hmmm...I know. Well. Damnit, WE NEED A DT. We need ATLEAST one. No push off of the line at all. No pressue. It is a need now. None of the backups are good enough.

PENALTIES... OMG Damnit, 120 yds of penalties. I don't care if its a Jan. mini-camp you don't need that many penalties.

I wanted to see the rookie, but Spurrier played his gotdamn boyfriend Wuerfel. I need I say more? Need I say why we shouldn't use him? He was playing against 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string players and did nothing. His passes hang, they float, they cruise, bench him. No don't bench him cut him. Use Johnson.

Also I wanted to see Bowen, he was nowhere to be seen except for once or twice.

Russel - I kno he didn't get too many reps, but on the way play I saw him run, he wasn't running past anybody. Though if I remeber correctly he did have to wait a little bit for it.

Questions

Commentary Does anyone else have to listen to Sonny, and Kevin and that other guy. Damnit, I'm sorry but I muted the T.V. Let me give anyone who didn't watch the game a run-down of their commentary. "The RedSkins suck" "Which 3 RedSkins wear Jock Straps that are pinstripped?" "Hey, personx, wuts wrong with the O-line?" "Hey, personx wuts wrong with the D-line" But I'll give them the benefit of doubt, the Skins didn't give them much to talk bout.

I must remind myself this is just the pre-season.

Good commentary, but I think we should cut johnson and wuerffel and bring back Brad Banks or trade johnson and wuerffel to the Texans for Tony Banks!!!! Hey, Jeff George is still available! I like the commentary, but the two bad things are that Michaels mispronounces names like he depends on it and Sonny repeats five minutes later the last sentence Ken and George say. By the way, tell Michael and Spurrier, it's pronounced Suhl-Tahn, not Sooooo-tun! One more thing, you forgot to mention the lovely lifeguard kicker who kicked 90 yards up and 40 yards left. Why couldn't we kick from the right sideline?????

oh yeah how could I forget the kicker.

Questionable = Im going to give this man the benefit of doubt. He was out saving lives and the next day he's kicking field goals, literally. I'm going to give him a week before I pass any kind of judgement. I'm actually happy that he got it up off the ground and didn't miss it completetly.

I think because our D-line is terrible in practice, that our probowl O-line was overwhelmed at game situation. If we dont get some help on the D-line we are in trouble. I still think we should use the 3-4. Someone will make a play out of the four LBs or they are just shying away. I keep hearing people say its only preseson, but Damn that, we had a freakin goose egg, people. I still think we will when next week or it willbe a close game. Spurrier does not like to be embarrased and with the talent we have on O, he shouldn't be.

least dallas got shut out too but really, i was diappointed with the starters. maybe since this preseason is opposite last year, maybe the regular season will be opposite .... 9-7......maybe

ok i'm not done yet... p. zellner started at d end, upshaw and smith were "resting their knees. i think haley was the only lineman to actually get into the backfield, but missed a sack, but forced an incompletion. "big daddy didn't get anywhere near the qb all last season, the biggest loss on the line is daryl gardner, although noble is a good blue collar guy he won't have that presence. trotter was "resting" his knee too. Man i hope he returns to the trotter we all remember that played with the eagles. ACL surgery can somtimes completly change a player. even though i like kevin mitchell, i'd rather have the depth at linbacker than to try to convert to the 3-4, that would be another defensive system to learn, i for one am glad to see continuity. plus we really don't have the "depth" needed at LB to run a 3-4(if someone gets hurt, we would be fu%*ed), still a lot of work to do before sept 4th. The offense has some work to do as well. we had all the starters in place. i think coles and gardner were the only starters on the entire team that came ready to play. the o line folded a few times forcing ramsey into old habits. canidate .... ouch nuff said. where's ladell betts when you need him???? i said before i like seeing a little continuity, but mostly what i saw continuous from last year, was 1. the penalty yards, 2 the kicking game and special teams ( i know hall sat out, but c'mon, a 54 yd punt by barker, with a 31 YARD RETURN by carolina, what the f#*k is that? 3. turnovers.... if we were a little better on special teams, could have gotten the turnovers and penaltys under control last year, we would have finished 8-8, or maybe even 9-7. Spurrier put it best when he said, we have to do a better job of coaching........ well its time to do that, it's not like you can blame it on talent this time around, get rid of the turnovers, and STUPID PENALTYS, do the little things and the big plays will come. It's hard to win when you beat yourself. Not that i'm a spurrier hater, but i'm just tierd of losing this team has the talent to go a long way, it's the coaches jobs to get it together and turn some of the offseason spending into some W's for this team. that said i know only the first quarter counted, the starters will probably play a half at home this week, but new england whipped up on nyg this week so the task won't be any easier. but thats a good thing, all of the defenses the skins face in the preseason are expected to be pretty stout. maybe we'll go into the season tryin hard instead of relaxed.

ok..... i'm still not done, i'm pissed off and have to get it out of my system. 4 turnovers 120 penalty yds. wheres the displine on this team or isn't there any?????....."we have to do a better job coaching"??????? easier said than done huh coach? special teams play was far from special... no open lanes for morton, poor kick and punt coverage, so much for field position..... and a missed kick, got my fingers crossed hall stays healthy in the regular season. ok i think i got it all out now. last nite, i just couldn't beleive the little things that killed us last year still haven't been addressed. we have the talent.

OK... I understand, heck, I appreciate all of your comments.

But that's what the preseason is for. I've never put an iota of importance into preseason games and I'm not about to start now.

For example, if Upshaw, Smith and Trotter DID NOT play... what conclusions can you really draw from the d-line play in the game?

I'm disappointed that we lost, sure. Maybe this year, unlike last, we'll be ready for the REGULAR season and not get a bloated opinion of our capabilities.

No way around the penalties and turnovers though. Undisciplined football is just that... undisciplined. Gotta 'coach em up' better than that.

Being in f*ing cowpie country I don't get to see the Skins play in the preseason...so I'm going by what I've read here and in the Post. Sounds like a pretty embarrassing premier to the '03-'04 season and that Stephen had fun.

As Wilbon says however...not sure what any of it means. I am concerned about the undisiplined play, ie penalties. Hopefully Spurrier is chewing some ass today and will continue throughout the preseason and get some people's attention. Maybe a few cuts are in order? How 'bout those who are dropping well thrown balls and missing tackles...that'll get some attention.

Probably the biggiest question I have is "did we have any significant injuries?".

As always I fear our d is going to underachieve and give up big plays and way too much rushing yardage. Someone please tell me I'm wrong here.

I did watch the cowgirls and enjoyed watching them suck! I can guarantee you stinky Tuna will be chewing some ass and cutting players.

I know some people wern't in last nights line up. But Davis ran it down our throats. Dragging defenders, busting thru holes, or just walking thru the untouched. Image if he had more than 7 carries, he would have had 100 yds in the 1st quarter. Will those players who weren't n the game make that much of a difference? I hope so.

Living in Delaware, I don't get to watch the Skins in the pre-season...I have to wait until the regular season to watch them on DirecTV.

I have to agree with Bosshog on this one. I don't put much weight on the pre-season. Yes, I suppose I would like to see a couple of wins towards the end of preseason (to get the team knowing what it feels like to win); however, I DO NOT want this team blowing out other teams in the pre-season (like last year) only to play like crap when the year starts.

Let's use this time to tweak the system...and get better . . . that what the preseason is for.

Finally, I'm not going to judge any position group (i.e., OL, DL, secondary, etc.) until I see all first-string players playing.

This is for all you people who call yourself fans,and the very first preseason game jump ship.My God people,calm the f#*ck down.Big deal we lost to the Carolina Panthers in preseason lets dog our skins for the rest of the year,right.....Hell no.I'm a believer and I know that I know we'll win this year.If you don't like it cheer for the Eagles.But don't come on our Redskin board talkin sh*t about the Skins.

For a loss, you guys seemed to be very optimistic. I dont care if it is preseason or mini camp.... we looked bad! I hear some say we dont put weight into this and into that, BS.Preseson is for evaluations, it aint like our starters weren't in there for almost 2 qtrs. We lost and we should have scored atleast once Scoring builds confidence and morale. So fellas lets not get confused here, preseason means alot. Hell we must have jelled somewhere but cant tell. All we have been saying up until this point is we will do better because we have 2 years to gel. Bruce Smith wasnt there or others so what. What do they have do do with offense??????????????????????????/ A real fan shows emotion to his team, atleast I do. The money That I bought Champ and Bruce Smith jerseys(Authentic) I am sure went to various players as a fan I want more positive results. Winning is what it is all about Fans. LOL

As far as jumping ship is concerned...Never that. Just a bit disappointed and I....Will..... Not....Hide.....it....Man!!

Chris, I wouldn't so much call out your OLine and say they were terrible. They were up against the #1 DLine in the NFL. Wait until next week before you make line obsevations.
I thought your Dline did a decent Job. True, that first sack we allowed was a blown block, but your guys didn't do terrible.
It was your first game of the preseason. Mistakes are going to happen. Judge your team on how they correct those mistakes next week.

It was great chating with you folks about this game over the past few weeks. We'l be back in week 11, so make sure your guys are eating their Wheeties. Good luck!

This is just what the skins needed. I would have been scared had they come out and blown out CA. They need a reality check - I hope the next game is similar. I want them working their little tails off every day this week. I want the Oline to Kabitz about what they need to do better. I am focussed on the regular season (we saw how misleading last year's preseason was) and this game was about the best thing that could happen to them.

Now, for details:
- QBs: Rob Johnson played LOTS better than he did in training camp. That was terrific to see. Weurfle played about the same (some up/some down). Ramsey never really had a chance due to the drops and Oline.

- Dropped passes: I would bench Flemister in favor of Robert Royal. I might consider doing the same for Byron Johnson (but I saw Cartright drop a bunch in practice). It is flat out unacceptable to drop easy passes on 3rd and 4th downs. I think dropping their status from starters to reserves on Monday would send a wonderful message to the team. Maybe this game has given Thad Butte something to be optimistic about.

- Dline: Nothing postiive to say here - they stink! I know we didn't have everyone in but still, they reaked up the place as much as we feared. I only hope Lavar's comments were intended to leave the impression that they know the Dline stinks and they have defensive schemes to cover that. I think this game gives us some desire to pay Big Daddy a little more than others are offering. Yes, he's not great but hopefully with him we can limit future RBs to only 50 yards a quarter!

- Oline: again, I like this game for the Oline. I think they will improve and this is what they needed. I was pretty concerned about our run blocking more than pass blocking - thats more just power and CA won that battle. Also, I would like it if Spurrier put TEs and FBs in for pass protection more often.

- Punter: Barker has to go....Nuff said...

- Kicker: I felt sorry for the lifegaurd. Here he blows his chance at that lifegaurd competition to come here on last minute only to flub one horribly when you know everyone he knows is watching and listening to that commentary about him. Poor guy.

- RB: I made the comment earlier that Sultan McClough was ahead of Gillespie in camp. I think that has definitely held true today. Maybe Watson shouldn't have played if he was hurt, he didn't show much. Also, I wished they had put in Morton more. As for Trung, I will give him the benefit of doubt for a few more games - he was going against the #1 run defense.

- Tackling...Damn! we sucked there. Again, people should be dropping down in the depth charts (or booted) for some of the tackling shown.

- Penalties: Ugh...that was horrid. The worst was Jansen's after the Coles pass. Don't have anything nice to say about that other than Spurrier should be raising the fine in practice to at least 20 bucks!

I wanna see the Monday practice to see the intensity level. I hope it will be higher.

Any injuries?

Yeah Spurrier hurt his kicking foot and some players lost hearing on the bus trip back

... great post skinsfanno9. I hope if you go to practice Monday that we can look forward to another great report too.

I won't comment on any of the 'preseason having any meaning' posts... 'cause i just don't feel the same way. I think the previous post saved me a lot of typing and prtetty much expressed my views on the relative value of our performance. If preseasons had one iota of value... we'd have won the super bowl last year.


To dismiss having a HOF DE, another starting DE and a pro bowl MLB as just 'missing a couple of guys' is silly. It's not missing a couple of guys... it's missing half your front seven. How you stop the run WILL be affected and if it doesn't... then you probably have the depth to take you to the promised land. Let's give our starters a shot before we chastise them as losers and realize that we may lack the depth to do much this season defensively if the injury bug bites us.

Guess that means no significant injuries.

I concur with the Boss and agree, great post skinsfanno9, thanks.

I know I was injured after I banged my head against the wall last night seeing the ticker showing a shutout and Davis's stats.

My feeling is that the first preseason game is the absolute worst precursor for the season (and that, in the end, it's good to lose the first one).

My main reason is this: the starters are all in for a quarter, and what's more--they know they're only in for a quarter. They *know* they won't be getting into a rhythm, so they don't--their play is all disjointed and skewed.

Same with special teams--the personnel is totally in flux, so they don't get into any kind of rhythm. Doesn't surprise or bother me at all.

At the same time, I'm glad we lost--because it gives specific errors for the coaches to focus on for improvement. As others have said, I don't want to see us go into the season the way we did last year, thinking we were going to own the league. I want us to be scratching and clawing every step of the way.

The big thing I'll be watching now is Spurrier's response--and how he goes about ensuring that discipline becomes the order of the day. That'll show that there's been a serious change.

The first preseason game, people--it's just a gauge of where individual players stand, not where the team stands.

I would expect a major emphasis on tackling drills this week. That was a consistent thread throughout the game. That has nothing to do with game planning or anything else.

Again, I like this as a "GET SERIOUS!" wake up call for our team.

One thing Gibbs was great at was getting everyone to believe that individually, they were not great, and that the only way the skins could win is if everyone was totally focussed and giving 110% concentration at all times (unfortunately, the hall of fame committee seems to have taken Gibbs' motivational strategy to heart and have made some pretty poor decisions as a result).

This game should help Spurrier instill some "realism" in them if he so desires.

I dont want to keep going back and forth with these indirect posts. I tell guys and gals from a coaches stand point when I had to endure the duties of coaching Pop Warner league 2 years ago. We had 2 scrimmage games we lost won and dominate the next one. I guys I dont know if you guys have played football or coached or whatever. But from practice to scrimmage to exhibition to Regular Season. Losing sux, losing out to another player, sux. The thing that I hated when coaching is losing. It takes a toll on coaches and players alike. Yeah you win some and you lose some but thats not our focal point. It is the first preseason game of the year but I dont think coaches are sitting back saying oh yeah fella cheer up it only the first preseason, no they are saying what Spurrier is saying in news conferences we look bad we dropped alot of balls so on and so forth. Thats all I am getting at. From watching yesterdays game we just looked poor and previous training post or capsules dont reflect what I witnessed yesterday Except for one play!

PS I keep hearing how Stephen Davis ran on us but how about how they easily drove down the field with passing plays! Also Spurrier said it best when he said "Training camps are for evaluations and exhibitions are for evaluating and winning and we did not look like we wanted to win"

I agree with Boss in regards to the impact of the result -- with players out and schemes more vanilla than Breyers.

But there are a few things that become quite obvious any time you strap 'em up and play. You can either tackle or you can't. You can either block or you can't. You either have good reactions to the ball or you don't.

There were more than a handful of players wearing maroon (I won't call it burgundy -- LAST YEAR was burgundy) jerseys who fell into the categories with "n't" at the end.

It looked like Wingman and I were playing defensive tackle. Dan Daly might just be right -- "The opponent's shortest path to the end zone is up the middle."

Frustrating? Oh hell yeah. The final word?

Not by a long shot!

Jake, I did some checking because I was curious about the way they were pronouncing Sultan, and it turns out (according to the Wichita Eagle): Sultan "pronounces his first name "SOOL-tawn." Interesting!

... great thread.

I think y'all make valid points about the importance of winning in general, and the effect of losing. Personally, i hate losing as much as anyone... you'll have to trust me on that. But years of watching preseason has conditioned me to know that some teams/coaches don't give it the first thought in their preparations. They're going to do what they want to do to get ready, and W/L success is no barometer for the effectiveness of their preseason.

I also think RedskinsFreak makes good points on the FUNDAMENTALS still being tangible... so by no means is there anything to be excited about.

I still believe that this offense will be considerably better than 2002's version, and I still believe that we can have a top 10 defense (even with this line). NO MATTER WHAT HAPPPENS in the preseason, I'm still going to approach this season like we're a 9-7 team that's clawing at a playoff berth and we're only a 'hot streak' away from accomplishing even more.

... the passion and insight coming out of this thread is the reason I wanted my own message board here at theHogs.net... good, solid Redskin conversation. Thanks.