The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

March 7-- Most convoluted trade scenario ever

Far be it from me to cast judgment on the Redskins front office and their decision making, but in the case of the proposed Dre Bly/swap first round picks/move back up by trading Shawn Springs scenario, let me say, the necessity for commentary is overwhelming...

Jason LaCanfora wrote about the Skins desire to land Dre Bly from Denver after failing to complete a trade for him while he was with Detroit.. And the story he is telling is astounding...
Bly, of course, didn't want to go to Denver using the thinly veiled reasoning of wanting to play close to home (he grew up in Southern Virginia).. After a good chuckle, you recognize why he indeed wants to play here, Denver refuses to rip up his contract and the Redskins willingly will... This is the final big time payday for the 30 year old CB and everyone in the NFL knows where a late career bread buttering can and will occur.

The Skins remain hot to trot for Bly so much so they are now in talks with Denver and here's how the story reads: The Redskins will get Bly because he already told Denver he wants nothing to do with them unless they use the magic words : new signing bonus.. So he's a problem for them and needs to go.. The Skins are active dealers esepcially with Denver that a deal can be consummated..
So as it stands now, Bly comes to DC with the Broncos first round pick (21st) and either a second or third round pick in exchange for the Skins first round pick (6th).. This does not seem like an immediate fleecing unlike the TJ Duckett deal.. The Post story mentions how badly the team wants that third round pick back... They got raked over the coals for the expensive insurance policy in Duckett that the team never cashed in on..
But that's not all, the Skins then would trade Shawn Springs to someone for some combination of picks potentially a move back up into the mid teens of the first round to take a defensive lineman...,.

Is this the actual game plan that the Redskins discussed? Trade down, get a 30 plus year old CB, rip up his contract, give him top dollar, trade the other 30 plus year old CB because he wouldn't take a pay cut, recoop one mid round pick you gave away for no good reason, and somehow move back up in the first round to take the D-lineman they desperately need... Huh? Does this make sense of even seem remotely possible? NFL trades don't just happen, they need to make sense for two, or in this case, 3 to 4 different teams to make it happen.. This is the most convoluted scheme I've ever heard of all based around A 30 YEAR OLD CB... Hello? When did Dre Bly become Deion Sanders?

So, keeping Springs and drafting the best DL on the board at #6 is a worse scenario then getting Bly, paying him a Springs like contract that will explode in two years when he can't be expected to perform at a pro bowl level anymore, then taking the 5th or worse DL on the board plus adding a third rounder (the only part of this whole thing I like)..

How about this: stop trading picks for fledgling NFL players, stop doing "whatever it takes" for skill position players on the backside of their careers, stop ripping up their contracts before they've ever done anything for you, start signing your own before free agency hits..

OK, I'm done ranting..

By the way, the team cut K John Hall today saving nearly 2 million in cap space..





- I dont know why BRAM hates this trade. I would trade springs for bly strait up. When you throw in 3 draft picks for him for our 1st rounder I say thats as deal. Means we would get bly, lose our 1st rounder, but get their 1st rounder,2nd rounder and maybe 3rd rounder. Cant see why BRAM is so negative about this one

I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm on the same page definitely. It's confusing to understand what they're doing.

The only thing you failed to mention is the fact that Springs misses a lot of games and is much more injury prone than Bly. That's the only thing I'd add in there...

Springs would be a really great commodity if he were ever able to stay healthy. But, he never has. I think it was Seahawks that learned that, prior to the Redskins. I suppose the Redskins were hoping for the best, that maybe it would somehow be different for them. Well, it wasn't - Or mostly wasn't. I can't say I blame them (the Redskins) for trying. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Dre Bly is 29, not 30 plus. Dre Bly is going to command a lot of money, and I'd rather just keep what we have. What's weird though is that Springs is fragile, and say we stand pat and he's hurt again...then we're back to Jimoh at Nickle corner. In a perfect world Springs would re-negotiate, but i wouldn't if I were him either...either we pay him, or cut him..either way, he's gonna make more than 7 million this year.

His comments in the local press sound like he's indifferent about it.

I don't want Bly!

Too old, too much hype, too much money...

air_hog wrote:I don't want Bly!

Too old, too much hype, too much money...

I agree on all counts. We don't need this guy at all.

skins2357 wrote:March 7-- Most convoluted trade scenario ever

Far be it from me to cast judgment on the Redskins front office and their decision making, but in the case of the proposed Dre Bly/swap first round picks/move back up by trading Shawn Springs scenario, let me say, the necessity for commentary is overwhelming...

Jason LaCanfora wrote about the Skins desire to land Dre Bly from Denver after failing to complete a trade for him while he was with Detroit.. And the story he is telling is astounding...
Bly, of course, didn't want to go to Denver using the thinly veiled reasoning of wanting to play close to home (he grew up in Southern Virginia).. After a good chuckle, you recognize why he indeed wants to play here, Denver refuses to rip up his contract and the Redskins willingly will... This is the final big time payday for the 30 year old CB and everyone in the NFL knows where a late career bread buttering can and will occur.

The Skins remain hot to trot for Bly so much so they are now in talks with Denver and here's how the story reads: The Redskins will get Bly because he already told Denver he wants nothing to do with them unless they use the magic words : new signing bonus.. So he's a problem for them and needs to go.. The Skins are active dealers esepcially with Denver that a deal can be consummated..
So as it stands now, Bly comes to DC with the Broncos first round pick (21st) and either a second or third round pick in exchange for the Skins first round pick (6th).. This does not seem like an immediate fleecing unlike the TJ Duckett deal.. The Post story mentions how badly the team wants that third round pick back... They got raked over the coals for the expensive insurance policy in Duckett that the team never cashed in on..
But that's not all, the Skins then would trade Shawn Springs to someone for some combination of picks potentially a move back up into the mid teens of the first round to take a defensive lineman...,.

Is this the actual game plan that the Redskins discussed? Trade down, get a 30 plus year old CB, rip up his contract, give him top dollar, trade the other 30 plus year old CB because he wouldn't take a pay cut, recoop one mid round pick you gave away for no good reason, and somehow move back up in the first round to take the D-lineman they desperately need... Huh? Does this make sense of even seem remotely possible? NFL trades don't just happen, they need to make sense for two, or in this case, 3 to 4 different teams to make it happen.. This is the most convoluted scheme I've ever heard of all based around A 30 YEAR OLD CB... Hello? When did Dre Bly become Deion Sanders?

So, keeping Springs and drafting the best DL on the board at #6 is a worse scenario then getting Bly, paying him a Springs like contract that will explode in two years when he can't be expected to perform at a pro bowl level anymore, then taking the 5th or worse DL on the board plus adding a third rounder (the only part of this whole thing I like)..

How about this: stop trading picks for fledgling NFL players, stop doing "whatever it takes" for skill position players on the backside of their careers, stop ripping up their contracts before they've ever done anything for you, start signing your own before free agency hits..

OK, I'm done ranting..

By the way, the team cut K John Hall today saving nearly 2 million in cap space..





- I dont know why BRAM hates this trade. I would trade springs for bly strait up. When you throw in 3 draft picks for him for our 1st rounder I say thats as deal. Means we would get bly, lose our 1st rounder, but get their 1st rounder,2nd rounder and maybe 3rd rounder. Cant see why BRAM is so negative about this one

I also hate this trade. Our first priority now should be a high impact DE and drafting at #6 is the only way to get one. Springs for Bly makes sense, but taking a big chance on Bly (considering the cost). hoping to get lucky later in the first round, and then hoping to find another top player like ey in the third is too hopeful by far. Bly's likely to prove barely above average at this point in his career, a late 1 rounder is likely to become an average player, and the third round is likely to produce a guy who's going to be on the practice squad. Those are the probabilities.

The more and more I read I could care less. It would be cool to finally draft a player and have them play with us for a while again. Lets keep Springs at his number. Draft a corner or pick up someone and lets mold these guys. At some point we should learn that we need young players on our team.

Let's not start handing out bags of money to the CBs until we have a real pass rush. If our front four cannot get to the quarterback QUICKLY, having great CBs isn't going to make a dime's worth of difference.

Is one draft pick going to single-handedly transform the D-line in his first season? I think not.

The Redskins should give up on the Bly trade and part ways with Springs -- hopefully for some draft picks, but only if we can get cap relief as part of the trade.

I don't want Bly either. We can certainly do without him.

Thumbs down on Bly.

Is one draft pick going to single-handedly transform the D-line in his first season? I think not.

While you are dead on on the Bly issue, you are dead wrong on this. A single, dominant D-lineman, either tackle or end, can change the entire D-line.

Any lineman who can demand the attention of two or three offensive players free's up someone else. A dominant D-tackle who can consistently collapse or push back the pocket, makes everyone else better. Same for a D-end.

One draft pick can absolutely single-handedly transform the D-line in his first season.

In fact, it's the one component of any team where that is most likely to happen... it has the shortest learning curve of all the positions, especially in a 4-3.

Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.

Thumbs down on Bly--Isnt it amazing here we are with by far the worst pass rush in Nfc maybe the league...and yet another off season is dwindling away and for some we havent even looked at DE possibilities.Staggering
even if they draft Adams or Anderson. they didnt solve the problem...and people on this board have said it best recently...You can have 3 champ bailys but if the QB has all day your going to get picked apart...the Wynn and Daniels Combo HAS TO GO...
I dont care about how everyone loves them and there everyones fishing buddy..They both royally s*ck...on 3rd down they barely get off the line of scrimmage
I know were forced to keep AC because he fleeced us big time and now were stuck
So now they want Dre Bly, Why???? the whole scenario is baffling.My uncle is a big Skins fan and he summed it up best

you can sum up the Skins IN ONE SENTENCE

They operate under Lunacy driven by insanity under the cloak of retardation

once you understand that sentence--everything they do will make sense.

Countertrey wrote:Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.

Maybe, maybe not. The No. 1 overall selection last year (Mario Williams) was only 5th among rookies in sacks (4.5 sacks), while the rookie sack leader (Mark Anderson) was only a 5th round pick. He had 12 sacks, more than anyone on our entire team, and more than half our team total!

Bly currently ranks 4th in career interceptions among current active defensive backs, only 6 behind Bailey. Say what you want, but he's far better than average. He has a real knack for forcing fumbles and creating turnovers, something our defense desperately needs. We will be fine with or without him and I could care less, at this point, if they take him or leave him. IMO however, he is far better than many of you are giving him credit for and could prove to be a valuable addition to the roster.

In the last 2 years, Springs has only had a total of 2 ints, 15 passes defended and 0 forced fumbles. That's not very good.

In the last 2 years, Bly has 9 ints, 24 passes defended and 7 forced fumbles. The numbers speak for themselves. Bly is clearly, at this point, a better corner.

But I'm not sure what to do at this point either. It has been the popular opinion that we were going to trade down anyway. I've always wanted to stay at #6 and take J. Anderson, because I believe the DE position is our biggest whole right now on defense, after the signings of Smoot and Fletcher. I know we also need a DT, but I seem to feel more confident with Griffin, Salave'a, and Golston rather than Carter, Daniels, Wynn and Evans. Carter really came on at the end of last season, so I think he'll do fine, as I see him feeling more comfortable in the system now.

I'm quite sure the Skins are really looking at this and all the possible scenarios, from every angle, and I'm confident they will do what they think is best for our team. At this point, regardless of what happens with Bly and Springs, I think our defense will be vastly improved over last year.

I swear I can't listen to this anymore. STOP TALKING ABOUT HOW INJURY PRONE SPRINGS IS!!!!!!!!!! This season he had injuries, yes we all know that. So did Portis, is portis now injury prone. How many guys go through football without one season of injuries that make them miss a chunk of games. It happens all the time to every team. Springs played 15 games for us the other 2 seasons not to mention he was great. On seattle he just had one other season that really plagued him with injuries. Other seasons he was nicked up where he missed 1 or 2 games (Bly has to) but for the most part he was fine. You guys are making him to be a cripple. I cant stand the "springs is so injury prone, he never plays" argument. Most importantly, he had injuries that aren't long term ones, he isnt playing on a new knee or a bad back. The injury argument makes no sense and I can't take hearing about it. He played the same exact amount of games as Portis since they both became redskins, how come we dont complain and say "hes a great player too bad hes always on the sideline injured" Get it out of your heads that Springs is a wounded soldier.

^^Springs missed 7 games last year with 3 different injuries. If he'd missed 7 games from the same injury, then I agree with you. But 3 different injuries? That will give you the stigma of being "injury proned". It happens when you get older, Springs is 32.

I would take three seperate injuries as unlucky. Portis had 2 seperae injuries and I would call him unlucky too. I much rather a guy with 3 injuries that are easy to come back from than a guy with a reconstructed knee. It was a bad unlucky season for him. If you would just read the posts on this board you would get the sense Springs played 8 games each year for the skins. People have blown his injuries so out of proportion

Houligan26 wrote:I would take three seperate injuries as unlucky. Portis had 2 seperae injuries and I would call him unlucky too. I much rather a guy with 3 injuries that are easy to come back from than a guy with a reconstructed knee. It was a bad unlucky season for him. If you would just read the posts on this board you would get the sense Springs played 8 games each year for the skins. People have blown his injuries so out of proportion

I hear what you're saying and agree, to some extent. But it's just that last years poor defensive performance and the absense of Springs, that is freshest in our heads. He was healthy the year before but still did not produce such great numbers, actually pretty lousy numbers. Don't get me wrong, I like Springs, but we have to put things in a proper perspective.

I attribute the bad numbers because of peoples desire to attack Rogers who was a rookie and Harris who was suspect as a starter. People didn't really got at him much, which is the best thing you can ask of cornerback. Also, he is tenacious. Not afraid to come up and make a tackle in the running game and he had 6 sacks with us his first season. I really like the guy and i feel like people are dogging him for the wrong reasons. We all must understand, bly has one more year left on his contract. Lets see how he plays in denver for a year and if we really want him than we will attack him as a free agent. But if they are going to make the same money I want springs on this team over bly

Bly happy with status quo?
<Mar. 8> Despite rampant speculation that Bly already wants out of Denver, the cornerback's agent says his client isn't angling to be traded to Washington, or anywhere else.

"I've had nothing but positive dialogue with the Broncos," Kennard McGuire told the Rocky Mountain News. "There hasn't been one negative element in play."

The Washington Post had reported that the Redskins were trying to pry Bly away from Denver. The Redskins reportedly offered Bly a lucrative contract extension during previous trade talks with the Lions. The Broncos so far have been unwilling to compensate the 30-year-old beyond his 2007 base salary ($4.2 million), according to The Post.

I don't even care anymore.

Houligan26 wrote:I attribute the bad numbers because of peoples desire to attack Rogers who was a rookie and Harris who was suspect as a starter. People didn't really got at him much, which is the best thing you can ask of cornerback. Also, he is tenacious. Not afraid to come up and make a tackle in the running game and he had 6 sacks with us his first season. I really like the guy and i feel like people are dogging him for the wrong reasons. We all must understand, bly has one more year left on his contract. Lets see how he plays in denver for a year and if we really want him than we will attack him as a free agent. But if they are going to make the same money I want springs on this team over bly

Players always excel in thier contract years.

But for the record, I would like to have Bly AND keep Springs, with Springs sharing time at FS. Could you imagine a secondary consisting of Rogers, Smoot, Bly, Taylor and Springs? Daaaaaaaammmmnnnn! I like the sound of that!

We all like the sound of that but games are won in the trenches. I just want to see us with a freak of a d lineman. Somebody that every team is scared of every game. I want the bly talk to go away. Can't we just lay low. I'm willing to go to war with springs and whoever we draft. Plust FO should be worrying about a new LG not elaborate trades. Lastly, does anyone else wish that the whole FO checked this website. I don't know if you guys read Bill Simmons but he said every team should have a President of Common Sense. The skins need this more than anyone, a diehard fan that just knows btw right and wrong, ie) duckett trade VETO

Its going to tick a lot of people when we pick up Okoye. Rumor has it we are really high on this kid. I'm up for it.

Okoye at 6 I will be pissed, trade down get extra picks and okoye or carrike, im fine. Will gw lose his narrow minded approach and start a 19 yr old. I will be 24 at the start of the season, I couldn't imagine someone 5 yrs younger than me being our starting dt. Its actually funny, he is the lebron of the trenches.