The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Hey guys.

I was thinking recently, about how Gregg Williams will fare as a coach in a few years when it will probably be his time once again.

Personally, it seems like the best coaches are guys getting their first crack at head coaching after learning from the best. Guys who are young, and hungry.

Joe Gibbs was that guy once.

With Gregg, it seems like we'd be getting a guy who would preserve the status quo (maybe good, maybe bad) and not someone who would be building their own legacy.

After all, what is Williams learning about offense? Would he be the type of coach who would always be delegating completely to an offensive coordinator? Those relationships don't seem to last because the coordinator in question becomes a head coach someplace else before too long...

The Bills had three very good drafts in the years that Gregg Williams ran the team... but how much say did he have? Was there a GM?

Williams has been given full run of defensive personel for the Redskins (alledgedly) and he hasn't made very good choices... it's been reported that he is too confident with his choices, and assumes he can mold them into the player that he wants. Hence, Adam Archuletta playing coverage.

What kind of coach will he be? Will he also have general manager duties?

What does the future of the Redskins look like with him at the helm?

Skinsfan55 wrote:Hey guys.

I was thinking recently, about how Gregg Williams will fare as a coach in a few years when it will probably be his time once again.

Personally, it seems like the best coaches are guys getting their first crack at head coaching after learning from the best. Guys who are young, and hungry.

Joe Gibbs was that guy once.

With Gregg, it seems like we'd be getting a guy who would preserve the status quo (maybe good, maybe bad) and not someone who would be building their own legacy.

After all, what is Williams learning about offense? Would he be the type of coach who would always be delegating completely to an offensive coordinator? Those relationships don't seem to last because the coordinator in question becomes a head coach someplace else before too long...

The Bills had three very good drafts in the years that Gregg Williams ran the team... but how much say did he have? Was there a GM?

Williams has been given full run of defensive personel for the Redskins (alledgedly) and he hasn't made very good choices... it's been reported that he is too confident with his choices, and assumes he can mold them into the player that he wants. Hence, Adam Archuletta playing coverage.

What kind of coach will he be? Will he also have general manager duties?

What does the future of the Redskins look like with him at the helm?

One more year like last year and Gregg Williams should be out on the street. He has demonstrated utter ineptitude with regard to player acquistion and management. He may or may not be a great coach, but these last three years provide an indication that he is in over his head in his duties here as 'assistant head coach' and in fact, if this defense doesn't return to the top third of the NFL this upcoming season, he should be let go.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Personally, it seems like the best coaches are guys getting their first crack at head coaching after learning from the best. Guys who are young, and hungry.

This isn't necessarily true. For example, Bill Belichek was a much better coach in his second head coaching stint. Tony Dungy is in his second head coaching stint and finally has gone to the superbowl.

After all, what is Williams learning about offense? Would he be the type of coach who would always be delegating completely to an offensive coordinator? Those relationships don't seem to last because the coordinator in question becomes a head coach someplace else before too long...

Normally, yeah, you're right. But Andy Reid has this exact setup in reverse; he gives Jim Johnson all defensive duties, and he's stuck around. It really depends. A young hot offco will go...but get someone older, like Saunders, and he probably won't. As you pointed out earlier, young is hot in the NFL.

The Bills had three very good drafts in the years that Gregg Williams ran the team... but how much say did he have? Was there a GM?

IIRC it was Tom Donohoe (sp?)

What does the future of the Redskins look like with him at the helm?

Imho not very good. His head coaching record in Buffalo was poor. But more problematic is that even if he was Belichek, I'm not sure he could succeed here in DC. Our front office setup is such a mess that it is not conducive to long term success.

old-timer wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Hey guys.

I was thinking recently, about how Gregg Williams will fare as a coach in a few years when it will probably be his time once again.

Personally, it seems like the best coaches are guys getting their first crack at head coaching after learning from the best. Guys who are young, and hungry.

Joe Gibbs was that guy once.

With Gregg, it seems like we'd be getting a guy who would preserve the status quo (maybe good, maybe bad) and not someone who would be building their own legacy.

After all, what is Williams learning about offense? Would he be the type of coach who would always be delegating completely to an offensive coordinator? Those relationships don't seem to last because the coordinator in question becomes a head coach someplace else before too long...

The Bills had three very good drafts in the years that Gregg Williams ran the team... but how much say did he have? Was there a GM?

Williams has been given full run of defensive personel for the Redskins (alledgedly) and he hasn't made very good choices... it's been reported that he is too confident with his choices, and assumes he can mold them into the player that he wants. Hence, Adam Archuletta playing coverage.

What kind of coach will he be? Will he also have general manager duties?

What does the future of the Redskins look like with him at the helm?

One more year like last year and Gregg Williams should be out on the street. He has demonstrated utter ineptitude with regard to player acquistion and management. He may or may not be a great coach, but these last three years provide an indication that he is in over his head in his duties here as 'assistant head coach' and in fact, if this defense doesn't return to the top third of the NFL this upcoming season, he should be let go.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. One bad year is not enough for the axe and one bad year will not define his legacy. Williams has had great defenses everywhere he has been, including with the Bills and the Titans, as well as here in Washington. The Bills, Titans and the Skins were not able to put forth a solid offense to compliment his defenses. That will soon change, IMO.

Will he be a successful head coach in this league? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not. But I'm not ready to say he is a failure. I like Gregg and his style. He is a no-nonsense, straight shooter who could care less about the politically correct movement in this country. I like that in a defensive coach.

BTW, I remember here on this board specifically, before last year, just about everyone agreed that he should take over after Gibbs leaves and were happy he got a new contract and didn't leave for another team. I don't have a short memory and am still happy he is still here. I would bet my house that his defense will rebound nicely next year.

I still find it funny, how everyone is so critical of the coaching turnover in Washington and yet these same people are already wanting to axe another coach, after one bad year, and try to start over with a new coach. Please give me an example of another defensive coach, who is or would be available, and who has the resume of Williams and who could do a better job.

He has demonstrated utter ineptitude with regard to player acquistion and management.

Oh ya??? How about Marcus Washington, or Sean Taylor, or Prioleau, or Kedric Golston, or Vernon Fox, or Cornelius Griffin, or Carlos Rogers, or Troy Vincent, or Andre Carter, or Rocky McIntosh, or even Dometric Evens (who has played nicely). I also believe Anthony Montgomery and Reed Doughty will make an impact soon as well. Ya, I know they are all not Pro Bowlers yet, but my point is, saying Williams has "demonstrated utter ineptitude for player acquisition" is foolish and unfounded.

Now, I know everyone wants to vent some frustration, but please, it has become comical at this point. I mean, why don't we fire the owner, fire all the coaches, trade all the players and move the organization to a new country. Will that help?????????

There is only one Super Bowl winner each year. That means 31 other teams are sitting around scratching their heads and saying to themselves, "where did it all go wrong?". 31 TEAMS!!! I understand it sucks to be one of those teams, BUT IT'S PART OF THE GAME! If you don't like the owner, or the philosophy, or the coaches, or the players.... then move on and become a fan of another team! You think you can do it better??? Then let's see it!

Sorry, I just get tired of all the negativity, that's all. I like to stay positive and have optimism for the team I love. As a fan, I know I can't really do anything about it, and complaining all the time doesn't get me anywhere. I love the Skins, whether we are Super Bowl champs (like 3 times before), or we go 0-16. That's my philosophy of being a Skins fan. Sue me.

Ok, I've calmed down now. Sorry for my rant. I always try to respect others and their opinions or points of view. But the ignorance of some gets to me sometimes and I believe in supporting my team rather than ripping them all the time.

A lot of people want to criticize Williams for the signing of Arch. I don't blame Williams for that at all. Arch was a proven player in college and in the NFL. He has many great qualities and skills and had proved his worth. Now, there is no question that he struggled this year. Why? Arch himself admitted that he was distracted by numerous things, did not focus or fully commit himself to learning the system or playing at a high level, a level that he knows he is capable of.

I think Williams did the right thing with him. He sat him down. Williams basically said, if he's more concerned with the size of his contract, his bank account, the girl he was dating, what kind of car he drove, and no so much about the game, then go plant your butt on the bench. Arch admitted these things and said he was not focused. But is that Williams fault? Not in my book.

I actually think Arch will remain with the team. I think Williams will get him in line and I think Arch will have a better year next season. I think the philosophy will be much like what the military does in boot camp; break a person down so you can build him up into a fighting machine. Leave the ego at the door, we will develop a new confidence for you. Arch needed a foot in the arse, like we all do sometimes. He very well could rebound with a huge year.

Nice posts, SkinsFreak. I'm with you in being patient with the coaches -- beginning with Gibbs, and I have in no way given up on Gregg Williams yet. His supposed arrogance this past year and the defensive stats have been way overplayed.

What's also interesting is how well Williams (as well as Gibbs) have handled Sean Taylor in his time here. He could easily have turned out to be a long string of problems, but Williams has defended him all along and apparently it's really taking effect.

As for you sources on Archuleta, where did you read that he was letting other stuff (money, girls, cars, etc.?) distract him from where his focus should have been? I've never heard that story before.

IF G Williams takes over as HC we will definately hire a GM.

Arch is what he is. He is not good in coverage and only useful at the line. For you to say that he will have a better year than last year, not much of a stretch. Hard to have a worse year than he did.

As for all the players you named to prove your point about GW's personnel decisions. Andre Carter???? I like how he came on at the end of the year but for the year as a whole he is a bust so far. He needs a big season to redeem himself. Fox and Vincent???? Those weren't personnel decisions. That was a case of desperate times call for desperate measures. Especially Vincent. Carlos Rogers as well, tons of talent but we used a high pick on him and I for one expected him to be further along than he is right now, his hands suck worse than anyones I have ever seen.

The only future GW should have is get him outta here.

Irn-Bru wrote:As for you sources on Archuleta, where did you read that he was letting other stuff (money, girls, cars, etc.?) distract him from where his focus should have been? I've never heard that story before.

Arch said the big contract screwed him up at first but he says he has a grip on that, having a grip on her could cause a distraction every now and then

Other than what AA has said I haven't heard anything else.

Houligan26 wrote:As for all the players you named to prove your point about GW's personnel decisions. Andre Carter???? I like how he came on at the end of the year but for the year as a whole he is a bust so far.

That's a quick rush to judgment. What good is it to call him a "bust so far" given that he came on as strong as he did by the end of the year?

Fox and Vincent???? Those weren't personnel decisions. That was a case of desperate times call for desperate measures. Especially Vincent.

I don't see how this takes away from the decision to bring them in.

Carlos Rogers as well, tons of talent but we used a high pick on him and I for one expected him to be further along than he is right now, his hands suck worse than anyones I have ever seen.

Another case of quick judgment. We'll see, I guess. Rogers had a nice rookie campaign and looked much better at the end of this past season than he did in the beginning. He did have an INT and the game-winning play in the Saints game, after all.


Overall I see what you are trying to say, but you'll have to give stronger arguments and deal with our other acquisitions (Golston, Montgomery, Griffin, Washington, Evans, Springs, Taylor, Prioleau, McIntosh) before you can make a convincing case that backs up old-timer's original claim.

I think our future with GW will be fine and I also think he will show why Gibbs wanted him so badly by having another top 10 defense this year.
I also think that some of the players that did not perform as expected will also benefit by being a part of this re-birth of our defense.

GO SKINS

1niksder wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:As for you sources on Archuleta, where did you read that he was letting other stuff (money, girls, cars, etc.?) distract him from where his focus should have been? I've never heard that story before.

Arch said the big contract screwed him up at first but he says he has a grip on that, having a grip on her could cause a distraction every now and then

Other than what AA has said I haven't heard anything else.

Oh my.

Well, I'm no happier with his distraction from the team but at least now I can see how it may have happened. I guess I might be a bit phased if I was involved with her AND someone wrote me a $5 million dollar check, too.


Any offers, Snyder? I can sit on the bench, too!

What I actually was claiming was that he was throwing out players names without any way of backing up his point. You throw out names like Montgomery, Fox, Vincent, Carter and Rogers and thats supposed to prove a point that GW makes good personnel decisions. My whole post was those names aren't backing up his point. I didn't argue all the names he posted weren't good decisions so that is the exact reason I didn't address them. When did I rush my judgement on Carter?? For the time being he didn't do what we brought him in to do. Oldtimer included his name in "good personnel decision", I am disputing that from what I have seen so far

I think every coach has some busts. You never know how a player will do on our team vs what he did for his old team, it a different scheme, different coach, and different people around you.

I disagree with some of the players he let go. But what can I do about that?

I think with GW only time will tell, if he can recover from last season, he won't be on my hit list, but it he doesn't, he might not want the door to hit him on his way out.

old-timer wrote:One more year like last year and Gregg Williams should be out on the street. He has demonstrated utter ineptitude with regard to player acquistion and management. He may or may not be a great coach, but these last three years provide an indication that he is in over his head in his duties here as 'assistant head coach' and in fact, if this defense doesn't return to the top third of the NFL this upcoming season, he should be let go.

One season outside of the top ten in 3 and you're ready to put him out on the streets?
That's been the problem for years around here seems with a username like the one you carry you'd think a little different about starting that revolving door of coaches again. The Players door is just starting to slow down and you want to crank up the other one? Williams was handicapped last year due to injuries forcing players to play rolls that they weren't intended to play. When that didn't work he had to find people to fit in on the fly (Troy Vincent was a good stopgap). If you listen to Gibbs, player selection can't be pinned on one man (even Joe hasn't used the "it on me" statement when it comes to player selection). He has his input but it's a group thing. And there lies the problem.

I am all about seeing what he does next year as well. I am not one of those "lets kill GW" kind of fans. I really was just claiming some of the players Old-timer named are not good to prove his point on personnel decisions. Also the players he let go is another counterpoint to old timer butttt I really don't get upset about any except pierce and walt harris. Only because I really think that was all him and his ego. I think we all agree Snyder didn't care about paying Pierce the salary he got from the wee-men

This thread and others has blamed a lot of people for a lot of things. How have we not started the "Fire Vinny Cerato or us fans will kidnap him" thread

This is why fans shouldn't be owners...

Houligan26 wrote:This thread and others has blamed a lot of people for a lot of things. How have we not started the "Fire Vinny Cerato or us fans will kidnap him" thread

I've been yelling that since "the Danny" brought him back after Marty had kicked him up to Bristol

Sadly enough Charlie Casserly is back on the market and I would be very happy to put him in place over Cerrato. On the other hand, I would also take anyone on this message board over Cerrato if they had the cajones to say no to Mr.Snyder

Houligan26 wrote:What I actually was claiming was that he was throwing out players names without any way of backing up his point.

That's because he figured that it would be generally agreed that those players were good moves.

When did I rush my judgement on Carter?? For the time being he didn't do what we brought him in to do. Oldtimer included his name in "good personnel decision", I am disputing that from what I have seen so far

You rushed your judgment on Carter when you called him a "bust so far." Take a look at his season stats, and pay special attention to the last couple of months:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/2 ... elogs/2006

Carter had a slow start -- there's no doubt about that -- but he turned it on by the end of the year. It's ignoring 1/3 of the season to say that he didn't do what we brought him in to do. You might as well call the 2005 Redskins a failure, since 2/3rds of the way into the season we were only 5-6 and didn't look like we were going to make the playoffs.

Some interesting posts here. I think GW will turn this thing around next year. He's that good! He'll have new looks and with the continued chemistry of the players on board and with a few key pieces via FA and/or draft ie. DE, MLB and a cover DB we'll be rolling again. This year was a wake up call to get rid of that chip on our shoulders. Our D has something to prove next year and they will be fun to watch again. I can't wait!

You didn't need to write all that, I originally said Carter finished strong. I am also saying he has a lot more to prove. Stats don't show anywhere near as much as watching every game. Teams ran at him a lot, that could be contributed to having Holdman on his side but still he wasn't exactly stout

Houligan26 wrote:You didn't need to write all that, I originally said Carter finished strong. I am also saying he has a lot more to prove.

And, while I agree with you on this, I disagree that Carter can't be used to show that Williams has been good on personnel decisions.

Stats don't show anywhere near as much as watching every game.

Again, exactly my point. From what I saw of Carter, he really came on at the end of the season. It's part of the reason that I'm glad that he's on board.