The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

i dont know if its just me but i was at the game on sat night and i noticed that rocky was making some good plays. heard his name mentioned a bit. to me it begs the question and i know its been said before why the heck didnt we play rocky sooner??????

Your guess is as good as everyone elses. However IMO I think they were saving him for next year..... like everything else..... HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps we are now trying to alienate our "core" players before they even become core players?

...or maybe Rocky was just pumped up for the game and hadn't shown in practice that he could drop back in the cover 2?

vbskinsfan wrote:i dont know if its just me but i was at the game on sat night and i noticed that rocky was making some good plays. heard his name mentioned a bit. to me it begs the question and i know its been said before why the heck didnt we play rocky sooner??????

So basically, your assumption is that a rookie would have played the same in the first game as they did starting late in their rookie year? So since he did well starting later, we would have gotten the same play before he had a year to learn and practice?

I'm not against his having started earlier, but I find the assumption dubious.

So basically, your assumption is that a rookie would have played the same in the first game as they did starting late in their rookie year? So since he did well starting later, we would have gotten the same play before he had a year to learn and practice?

I'm not against his having started earlier, but I find the assumption dubious.

He might not have played as well earlier in the season, but on the other hand, it's not really possible to play linebacker any worse than Warrick Holdman.

SkinzCanes wrote:

So basically, your assumption is that a rookie would have played the same in the first game as they did starting late in their rookie year? So since he did well starting later, we would have gotten the same play before he had a year to learn and practice?

I'm not against his having started earlier, but I find the assumption dubious.

He might not have played as well earlier in the season, but on the other hand, it's not really possible to play linebacker any worse than Warrick Holdman.

Can't disagree with that

Let me preface my next statement by saying that I do not think Warrick Holdman is not a pro-bowler, or even that he is a solid starter anymore.

That said though... I think Holdman may've been the most consisten linebacker on the defense, based on talent. He had a better season than Lemar Marshall, who I like alot. And while Marcus Washington put up nice numbers again, he didn't play to his potential, which I think Holdman did.

As far as Rocky goes though, I'm not sure why he wasn't involved earlier. I'm definitely excited about watching him next season, knowing now how fast and athletic he is.

redskins56 wrote:Let me preface my next statement by saying that I do not think Warrick Holdman is not a pro-bowler, or even that he is a solid starter anymore.

That said though... I think Holdman may've been the most consisten linebacker on the defense, based on talent. He had a better season than Lemar Marshall, who I like alot. And while Marcus Washington put up nice numbers again, he didn't play to his potential, which I think Holdman did.

As far as Rocky goes though, I'm not sure why he wasn't involved earlier. I'm definitely excited about watching him next season, knowing now how fast and athletic he is.

Are you forgetting Marcus? He's had a great year, he's been all over the field. I think Marshall is better than Holdman but at least can acknowledge a debate. But you can't seriously think Holdman was better than Washington this year.

We agree on the jgst though on Rocky, he seems like a promising player next year. It was only the assumption that if he's ready now he was ready the first game I was addressing.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

vbskinsfan wrote:i dont know if its just me but i was at the game on sat night and i noticed that rocky was making some good plays. heard his name mentioned a bit. to me it begs the question and i know its been said before why the heck didnt we play rocky sooner??????

So basically, your assumption is that a rookie would have played the same in the first game as they did starting late in their rookie year? So since he did well starting later, we would have gotten the same play before he had a year to learn and practice?

I'm not against his having started earlier, but I find the assumption dubious.

i dont know if he would have done any better at all or if he was ready....but with the defense not playing up to par just didnt know if he could have provided a spark or something.

SkinzCanes wrote:He might not have played as well earlier in the season, but on the other hand, it's not really possible to play linebacker any worse than Warrick Holdman.

When Warrick has played his worst accorinding to the fans, he comes back a week or two later and plays even worst than before. Therefore I've determined his level of ineptness is yet to be detirmined. If we are lucky we'll get to see how bad he really is with him wearing another uni

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskins56 wrote:Let me preface my next statement by saying that I do not think Warrick Holdman is not a pro-bowler, or even that he is a solid starter anymore.

That said though... I think Holdman may've been the most consisten linebacker on the defense, based on talent. He had a better season than Lemar Marshall, who I like alot. And while Marcus Washington put up nice numbers again, he didn't play to his potential, which I think Holdman did.

As far as Rocky goes though, I'm not sure why he wasn't involved earlier. I'm definitely excited about watching him next season, knowing now how fast and athletic he is.

Are you forgetting Marcus? He's had a great year, he's been all over the field. I think Marshall is better than Holdman but at least can acknowledge a debate. But you can't seriously think Holdman was better than Washington this year.

We agree on the jgst though on Rocky, he seems like a promising player next year. It was only the assumption that if he's ready now he was ready the first game I was addressing.

I mentioned Marcus, so no I am not forgetting him. I said that based on talent, Holdman played the best football. In other words, Washington has the ability to post 140 tackles, and didn't. The best player on a defense should make plays, hold on to pics that hit them in the hands, change games at least once or twice a year.

I don't expect much out of Holdman. He isn't ultra-talented, but I think he played about as well as you could've expected. In my opinion, Washington didn't. He did a lot of dancing and was fun to watch like normal, but I don't think he played up to his potential. And realize too that I own his jersey, so I'm not a hater...

redskins56 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskins56 wrote:Let me preface my next statement by saying that I do not think Warrick Holdman is not a pro-bowler, or even that he is a solid starter anymore.

That said though... I think Holdman may've been the most consisten linebacker on the defense, based on talent. He had a better season than Lemar Marshall, who I like alot. And while Marcus Washington put up nice numbers again, he didn't play to his potential, which I think Holdman did.

As far as Rocky goes though, I'm not sure why he wasn't involved earlier. I'm definitely excited about watching him next season, knowing now how fast and athletic he is.

Are you forgetting Marcus? He's had a great year, he's been all over the field. I think Marshall is better than Holdman but at least can acknowledge a debate. But you can't seriously think Holdman was better than Washington this year.

We agree on the jgst though on Rocky, he seems like a promising player next year. It was only the assumption that if he's ready now he was ready the first game I was addressing.

I mentioned Marcus, so no I am not forgetting him. I said that based on talent, Holdman played the best football. In other words, Washington has the ability to post 140 tackles, and didn't. The best player on a defense should make plays, hold on to pics that hit them in the hands, change games at least once or twice a year.

I don't expect much out of Holdman. He isn't ultra-talented, but I think he played about as well as you could've expected. In my opinion, Washington didn't. He did a lot of dancing and was fun to watch like normal, but I don't think he played up to his potential. And realize too that I own his jersey, so I'm not a hater...

You did mention Marcus, I didn't phrase it very well. I don't agree with your assessement, he was a bring spot on a bad D and I don't think you're giving him enough credit for being a great player year in and year out, but sorta taking it for granted. He must be focused in and out of season to be as effective as he is every year and I think you need to give him more credit for that.

Holdman did try, if that's what you're saying I don't dispute it. But still to say he deserves more credit than Marcus I can't see.

I think Rocky wasn't playing because Holdman had pictures of naked Gregg Williams and Steve Jackson, rubbing themselves all over a Fathead of Adam Archuleta.

redskins56 wrote:I said that based on talent, Holdman played the best football. In other words, Washington has the ability to post 140 tackles, and didn't. The best player on a defense should make plays, hold on to pics that hit them in the hands, change games at least once or twice a year.

Holdman has the talent to make 70 tackles a year, and he lived up to it!

vbskinsfan wrote:i dont know if its just me but i was at the game on sat night and i noticed that rocky was making some good plays. heard his name mentioned a bit. to me it begs the question and i know its been said before why the heck didnt we play rocky sooner??????

For the same reason Campbell didn't play before now.

Why didn't Rocky play before?

Let me tell you why... Because he WASN'T READY

Rocky played well?

The guy made a couple of good plays sure... but other than that, he was just one of the guys that Tiki ran all over.

Sorry... I don't see a whole lot in this guy to get too excited about YET. I think the best thing we can do at linebacker is bring in a true MIC and move Marshall back to the outside... at which point, I just still see McIntosh being a backup to Marshall.

... Rocky still isn't ready in my opinion. The guy seems to have the physical tools, but he certainly doesn't look like he's learned the defense enough to play and react as opposed to play and think. Hopefully the offseason gives him a chance to learn.

vbskinsfan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

vbskinsfan wrote:i dont know if its just me but i was at the game on sat night and i noticed that rocky was making some good plays. heard his name mentioned a bit. to me it begs the question and i know its been said before why the heck didnt we play rocky sooner??????

So basically, your assumption is that a rookie would have played the same in the first game as they did starting late in their rookie year? So since he did well starting later, we would have gotten the same play before he had a year to learn and practice?

I'm not against his having started earlier, but I find the assumption dubious.

i dont know if he would have done any better at all or if he was ready....but with the defense not playing up to par just didnt know if he could have provided a spark or something.

Unlikely for an inexperienced rookie to come in and provide a "spark" but since we didn't try it I can't say it's impossible.

The way I look at it is what they did seems to have worked. He is looking good now and that bodes well for next year. Since they are experienced pros and he is playing well I'm going to give them credit for preparing him well rather than assuming based on no data they screwed up and a 22 year old kid was ready to step into the NFL and play well all along and we somehow wasted that opportunity and held him back.

There doesn't seem to be any credit to three time Superbowl winner Gibbs from many, and frankly their lack of credit to him makes no sense. Even when Rocky plays well instead of his being well prepped it's whining we didn't play him sooner assuming again based on nothing he was ready then.

You just said "maybe" and I'm not knocking your post, but the intellectually challenged "Gibbs is inept" crowd.

The problem with Rocky and others on this defense is lack of coaching, period. GW feels his "scheme" will coach these guys not him or his staff. The last time I checked, professional athletes still need to be coached, motivated, etc... There isn't a team in pro sports that does not have a coach or coaches.

The defensive coaching staff, IMO, were too busy trying to put guys in time-out and humilating them, then actually coaching them. This isn't pop-warner football, this is pro football. It's no coincidence that two different guys on the defense have said they were treated the same way (AA this year and LA last year). Arrogance and lack of doing their job's is the problem with this defense and their coaches. How does a defense go from 3rd to 9rd to 31st in three years and have 50% of it's original players in it??? This ain't Space Jam where these guys' athletic ability is mysteriously sucked up of them into some magical football.