The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Will TJ get any touches in the last four games? i doubt it.. why did we pick him up? i dont understand. why is he on the team if we wont play him? can someone explain to me why he isnt on the field or why we picked him up? i thought it was insurance for an injury to portis. and now portis is injured and TJ dosnt see the ball. in the loss to the falcons we ran the ball like crazy in the begining and then gave up on it in the third quarter. why?? if betts was tired give it to TJ. this makes me crazy.. we have two backs but only one sees action. even in short situations we never see the big guy. aahhhhhh!!!

not to forget.. if we resign betts and portis is healthy again next year we will have TJ ride the pine two full years in a row!! whhhyyyyy!!!!!!

Actually, I believe TJ has an escape clause in his contract, so he'll be a free agent next year.

Third round draft pick well spent.

Right.

It's amazing how it's so easy to second guess the team for making that trade. I truly believe the team/coaches were hearing from dr's (after the injury) that Clinton's shoulder needed surgery. They knew he wouldn't make the whole season and they (and us too) expected the SKins to be a good team -- a playoff team. They were hedging their bets by picking up TJ. If we had started out 4-1 and Clinton got hurt, none of us would be saying anything about the TJ trade as we would have used him to give Ladell rest. As is, Clinton didn't get put on IR until a few weeks back and we lost most of those games.

If folks are so worried about the stupid 3rd rounder, here's how we get a 3rd rounder back...Per this handy dandy trade value chart...

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/dra ... _chart.htm

Say we end up with the 13th pick in the 1st round. We could trade down to the 18th pick and get the 4th pick in the 3rd round. That is an exact point valued trade.

IMO -- let's quit worrying about that 3rd rounder. It ain't gonna make or break us.

fredp45 wrote:It's amazing how it's so easy to second guess the team for making that trade. I truly believe the team/coaches were hearing from dr's (after the injury) that Clinton's shoulder needed surgery. They knew he wouldn't make the whole season and they (and us too) expected the SKins to be a good team -- a playoff team. They were hedging their bets by picking up TJ. If we had started out 4-1 and Clinton got hurt, none of us would be saying anything about the TJ trade as we would have used him to give Ladell rest. As is, Clinton didn't get put on IR until a few weeks back and we lost most of those games.

If folks are so worried about the stupid 3rd rounder, here's how we get a 3rd rounder back...Per this handy dandy trade value chart...

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/dra ... _chart.htm

Say we end up with the 13th pick in the 1st round. We could trade down to the 18th pick and get the 4th pick in the 3rd round. That is an exact point valued trade.

IMO -- let's quit worrying about that 3rd rounder. It ain't gonna make or break us.

We haven't given them a 3rd round pick. We owe them the "Value" of a high 3rd round pick (a trade worth 250-260 pts).
We'll have to wait until the season is over to see what our pick is worth and what the Broncs pick is worth, we may have to swap #1s with them.

one my friends told me that we made the trade so the Eagles don't get him.

Your friend is paranoid.

We got him because Portis was hurt (way worse than the Skins were letting on) and the coaches thought we were playoff bound...they knew Betts would need help. They didn't feel that Rock could carry the load if Betts got hurt too.

It's amazing how it's so easy to second guess the team for making that trade. I truly believe the team/coaches were hearing from dr's (after the injury) that Clinton's shoulder needed surgery. They knew he wouldn't make the whole season and they (and us too) expected the SKins to be a good team -- a playoff team. They were hedging their bets by picking up TJ. If we had started out 4-1 and Clinton got hurt, none of us would be saying anything about the TJ trade as we would have used him to give Ladell rest. As is, Clinton didn't get put on IR until a few weeks back and we lost most of those games.

Sorry, not buying it. Portis has been out of the lineup for a few weeks and TJ still hasn't gotten very many carries. Gibbs and the front office totally blew it on this one. They panicked over Clinton's injury and prob didn't want the Eagles to get him either. Total waste of a draft pick.

Not buying it, huh?

I remember Joe Gibbs first go around as our coach and he was a guy who didn't play his second string guys unless he had to. That goes back to the Riggins days. We'd have a 28-7 lead in the 4th quarter and he was running Riggins and playing his starting QB. Instead of giving Riggins a rest, he'd give him 30 or more carriers. Think back over the past few years -- Ladell hasn't gotten too many carries when Clinton has been healthy and able to carry the load.

Two things I know:

1) The Skins, and us fans, all expected a super season this year. Even when Clinton got hurt in the first preseason game - none of us expected a lousy season. The Skins made the trade back when the season looked good; and

2) Joe Gibbs truly leans (very heavily) on a running game. Joe knew in the preseason that Clinton had an injury that wasn't going away anytime soon. One solid hit and he was done for the year. Ladell would be the starter. It's rare for a RB to go even 10 games without some injury. Joe knew that he couldn't rely on Rock to be a starting RB...so he paid for insurance - aka TJ.

You gotta go back to the period the trade was made, the situation we were in, the sense of the team at the time, and assess it then -- not now as we enter the last 4 games at 4-8. That's Monday morning quarterback and really easy to do.

I don't buy the -- we wanted to keep him away from the Eagles, that's fan-speak only. I don't believe that's a Joe Gibbs move -- maybe George Allen but not Gibbs.

SkinzCanes wrote:

It's amazing how it's so easy to second guess the team for making that trade. I truly believe the team/coaches were hearing from dr's (after the injury) that Clinton's shoulder needed surgery. They knew he wouldn't make the whole season and they (and us too) expected the SKins to be a good team -- a playoff team. They were hedging their bets by picking up TJ. If we had started out 4-1 and Clinton got hurt, none of us would be saying anything about the TJ trade as we would have used him to give Ladell rest. As is, Clinton didn't get put on IR until a few weeks back and we lost most of those games.

Sorry, not buying it. Portis has been out of the lineup for a few weeks and TJ still hasn't gotten very many carries. Gibbs and the front office totally blew it on this one. They panicked over Clinton's injury and prob didn't want the Eagles to get him either. Total waste of a draft pick.

How did they panic, when It's been proven that CP needed surgery?
Why he isn't being used is a all together different cause for headache.

How did they panic, when It's been proven that CP needed surgery?
Why he isn't being used is a all together different cause for headache.

Ofcourse they panicked. Even without Portis we still have Betts and Rock. There was absolutely no reason to trade a 3rd rounder (or the equivalent) for TJ.

fredp45 wrote:Not buying it, huh?

I remember Joe Gibbs first go around as our coach and he was a guy who didn't play his second string guys unless he had to. That goes back to the Riggins days. We'd have a 28-7 lead in the 4th quarter and he was running Riggins and playing his starting QB. Instead of giving Riggins a rest, he'd give him 30 or more carriers. Think back over the past few years -- Ladell hasn't gotten too many carries when Clinton has been healthy and able to carry the load.

Two things I know:

1) The Skins, and us fans, all expected a super season this year. Even when Clinton got hurt in the first preseason game - none of us expected a lousy season. The Skins made the trade back when the season looked good; and

2) Joe Gibbs truly leans (very heavily) on a running game. Joe knew in the preseason that Clinton had an injury that wasn't going away anytime soon. One solid hit and he was done for the year. Ladell would be the starter. It's rare for a RB to go even 10 games without some injury. Joe knew that he couldn't rely on Rock to be a starting RB...so he paid for insurance - aka TJ.

You gotta go back to the period the trade was made, the situation we were in, the sense of the team at the time, and assess it then -- not now as we enter the last 4 games at 4-8. That's Monday morning quarterback and really easy to do.

I don't buy the -- we wanted to keep him away from the Eagles, that's fan-speak only. I don't believe that's a Joe Gibbs move -- maybe George Allen but not Gibbs.

I agree with the 'insurance' explanation as well. It explains a lot more thank other blanket assessments, in my opinion.

I do feel sorry for T.J. (and his family) since this must be a frustrating season, but it seems clear that this wasn't simply a panic move by the Skins. After all, while Rock has been magic on special teams this year (again), but I'm not so sure that he's one to be a good #2 behind Betts. T.J. is getting roughly the same numbers now that Betts would routinely get running behind Portis. We might yet see his role expanded in the final few games.

I don't really buy the 'insurance' argument. Portis is now injured, and Duckett still gets minimal carries. Did we really need to trade picks for a player that we use sparingly?

I just don't understand why we couldn't use Nemo, Rock, or anyone else if they were only going to get 3 or 4 carries anyway. Heck bring back Lumsden, if we are only gonna use him sparingly.

Rock ran for 100 yds last year...we really needed to trade all that for someone to get less than 10 touches?

I wouldn't say they panicked, I would just say there retarded thats why they made the trade, THEY ARE RETARDED, that makes a lot more sense than any other half beep (since this is g rated) explanation I heard.

well now that we have concluded nothing about why we got TJ...


the real question i wanted to make a point of posting....


why dont we use him?

It would make more sense to say that we got him for 'insurance' purposes if Portis were injured a while. But Clinton was on IR and Duckett has still only been used sparingly, so I just don't get it.


Ah, we just officially wasted the picks since we re-signed Betts..I am sure that Duckett will not re-sign with a team to be a 3rd string RB. Way to go Braintrust...Cerrato + Snyder + Williams + Gibbs = Don't know what they're doing.

Coaches should coach, and evaluators should evaluate....period.

The way TJ has been running since we signed him, I'll be glad to see him go. I'm sure he's a great guy and all, but I could open a bag of chips, crack a beer, go take a leak (and wash my hands, of course) and sit back down in the time it takes him to get from the handoff to the line of scrimmage. I don't remember him being this timid or slow or easy to take down when he played for Atlanta. I was excited to trade for him, but after several games, he just doesn't seem to be hitting the hole with half the ferocity that Betts does. So, buh bye.

joebagadonuts wrote:The way TJ has been running since we signed him, I'll be glad to see him go. I'm sure he's a great guy and all, but I could open a bag of chips, crack a beer, go take a leak (and wash my hands, of course) and sit back down in the time it takes him to get from the handoff to the line of scrimmage. I don't remember him being this timid or slow or easy to take down when he played for Atlanta. I was excited to trade for him, but after several games, he just doesn't seem to be hitting the hole with half the ferocity that Betts does. So, buh bye.

He did seem rather slow getting to the LOS yesterday.

fredp45 wrote:
If folks are so worried about the stupid 3rd rounder, here's how we get a 3rd rounder back...Per this handy dandy trade value chart...

Stupid 3rd rounder? Thats the mindset that has us spinning our wheels in mediocrity. A 3rd round pick is far from stupid and if this franchise is to get up from the celler of the East, they'll need to invest in the draft.

We're at risk at losing more than just a stupid 3rd rounder, we may be losing GREAT position in the draft which could possibly effect your scheme in getting back a 3rd pick.

I wasn't too pissed when TJ came in, I was pissed when we didn't use him in obvious situations (goal line). We threw away a potential pick for a guy thats just collecting dust. This whole thing stunk.

I agree that hindsight is 20/20. The issue is that this front office has years worth of uneven trades and dealings. I feel that people are not crying out about this one transaction but that their frustration is a cumulation of MANY retarded transactions...

Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems that other teams dont go overboard like the Skins do in their dealings, regardless of how they try to justify their reasons.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems that other teams dont go overboard like the Skins do in their dealings, regardless of how they try to justify their reasons.

I don't really have a problem with any of the other picks that have been traded away (they seem to make sense to me ) Can't say the same for the Duckett deal but that's because it hasn't be completed yet

If folks are so worried about the stupid 3rd rounder, here's how we get a 3rd rounder back...Per this handy dandy trade value chart...

It was a "stupid" 3rd round pick that got us ey a few years back.

1niksder wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems that other teams dont go overboard like the Skins do in their dealings, regardless of how they try to justify their reasons.

I don't really have a problem with any of the other picks that have been traded away (they seem to make sense to me ) Can't say the same for the Duckett deal but that's because it hasn't be completed yet

Rocky? He hardly played... I think if we had a GM that we'd be a bit more patient in some of our dealings. We may have waited and to see if he fell to us, we can't mortgage the future for everyone.

SkinzCanes wrote:

If folks are so worried about the stupid 3rd rounder, here's how we get a 3rd rounder back...Per this handy dandy trade value chart...

It was a "stupid" 3rd round pick that got us ey a few years back.

If we did things right, we could have used his handy dandy trade value chart and have an EXTRA 3rd pick.

CLL wrote:I wasn't too pissed when TJ came in, I was pissed when we didn't use him in obvious situations (goal line). We threw away a potential pick for a guy thats just collecting dust. This whole thing stunk.

We've used T.J. on goal line and short yardage situations, and he's not very reliable. He's had some good runs but other times he's been stuffed -- especially near the goal line.

Then again, our entire offense stalls once we're inside the 10 yard line, so I'm not going to blame him for everything.

Irn-Bru wrote:

CLL wrote:I wasn't too pissed when TJ came in, I was pissed when we didn't use him in obvious situations (goal line). We threw away a potential pick for a guy thats just collecting dust. This whole thing stunk.

We've used T.J. on goal line and short yardage situations, and he's not very reliable. He's had some good runs but other times he's been stuffed -- especially near the goal line.

Then again, our entire offense stalls once we're inside the 10 yard line, so I'm not going to blame him for everything.

We JUST started to use him.

Its hard to expect this guy to play like a well oiled machine when he's been on the shelf for MONTHS. I doubt he got much practice time during the season either.