The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Whenever Brunell had a horrible game Gibbs always said...

" I think the quarterback is a reflection of whats going on around him "

Now that Campbell has had his first ugly game Joe says...

" It was a tough day for Jason, I'm sure there we're alot of things he wishes he could have back"


Explain the double standard! Is it really true that Gibbs remains loyal to MB to the point of open competition at QB in training camp next year?

yes, i think he will always be loyal to brunell because he does not want to be known for making a mistake on brunell, and proof is ramsey last year when he took him out after not one game.

i respect him and all but brunell sucks and accept it.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Whenever Brunell had a horrible game Gibbs always said...

" I think the quarterback is a reflection of whats going on around him "

Now that Campbell has had his first ugly game Joe says...

" It was a tough day for Jason, I'm sure there we're alot of things he wishes he could have back"


Explain the double standard! Is it really true that Gibbs remains loyal to MB to the point of open competition at QB in training camp next year?

Brunell didn't really make mistakes, he just didn't make plays. He wouldn't or couldn't throw to a receiver not completely open. He threw dump offs. He threw it away. But he threw few INTs. It was like having a vacancy.

JC made some mistakes, like giving up a return TD instead of taking a sack, so Gibbs observed he would like to have had those plays back.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Whenever Brunell had a horrible game Gibbs always said...

" I think the quarterback is a reflection of whats going on around him "

Now that Campbell has had his first ugly game Joe says...

" It was a tough day for Jason, I'm sure there we're alot of things he wishes he could have back"


Explain the double standard! Is it really true that Gibbs remains loyal to MB to the point of open competition at QB in training camp next year?

I don't think that this is a double standard. Brunell and Campbell aren't the same person. They have different traits, and skills. Brunell didn't lose games for us, nor did he put the team into difficult situations.....usually. Its just that he didn't make any positive plays when we desparately needed them. Jason will take those risks, and sometimes he will turn over the ball because of it.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Whenever Brunell had a horrible game Gibbs always said...

" I think the quarterback is a reflection of whats going on around him "

Now that Campbell has had his first ugly game Joe says...

" It was a tough day for Jason, I'm sure there we're alot of things he wishes he could have back"


Explain the double standard! Is it really true that Gibbs remains loyal to MB to the point of open competition at QB in training camp next year?

You're trying to make something out of nothing. As far as I've heard, Gibbs isn't thinking of benching Jason for Mark or any such thing. You're just fretting over semantics.

People overuse the term "rookie mistake". I point to people like Jake Plummer, Jeff Garcia, Steve McNair, Drew Bledsoe etc...who make plays like Campbell made and they're like 9 year vets.

People scruitinize young quarterbacks to the point where everything they do, people shout "rookie mistake"...when really the guy just made a bad play, and bad plays happen even to veterans.

Plus, Brunell fumbled a lot last year. He went through a stretch where he was fumbling a lot when he got sacked...was that a rookie mistake? or a veteran mistake? Pat Ramsey threw a lot of ints by forcing the ball in...were they "rookie mistakes?" Brett Favre has an entirely grey beard and he still throws 20+ ints every year....are they "rookie mistakes".

Its funny because the term "rookie mistakes' actually puts more pressure on young quarterbacks to perform to perfection...while the same errors go less noticed when coming from veterans.

If Campbell gets that ball out of bounds, like he was trying to do, or if our line doesn't get blasted such that the other fat lineman isn't there to pick it off...people would be calling his move "crafty" and "smart' since he wouldn't have taken us out of FG range...it was a bad play, the defense was in the right place, but its not all his fault....I seem to remember 3 red jerseys in the backfield when he turned around....

Gibbs4Life wrote:Whenever Brunell had a horrible game Gibbs always said...

" I think the quarterback is a reflection of whats going on around him "

Now that Campbell has had his first ugly game Joe says...

" It was a tough day for Jason, I'm sure there we're alot of things he wishes he could have back"


Explain the double standard! Is it really true that Gibbs remains loyal to MB to the point of open competition at QB in training camp next year?

Easy on the Gibbs accusations, man. You're making something outta nothing.

IMO, you're reading too deep in to the answers, and you are not taking time to think about what the questions were. Perhaps someone asked for his direct asessment of JC's day.

From my point of view (being a MB fan), his critique of Jason is no different from what he said about Mark all along.

I think he can be tougher on a second year player than an old vet.

JC pretty much stunk on Sunday... at least Joe didn't say that.

Probably because he and any knowledgeable fan realize that these are growing pains that Jason's going to go through.

Brunell didn't throw interceptions much, he just wasn't getting it down the field... pretty much the EXACT same way that Campbell played on Sunday. Lloyd was open down field time after time and Campbell kept short tossing screen passes.

So the only real double standard I see is the fans that aren't already calling for Campbell's head when they were calling for Brunell's.

I think if you look at it logically, the fans felt that the Skins couldn't win with Brunell. Thats why with every mistake, they were at his head. As for Campbell, there is a glimmer of hope that with his talents, he is our best opportunity to win. The hard part is we just aren't very good. I think if everything stays the same and we can keep a majority of the players, Cambell will have a better opportunity to succeed.

frankcal20 wrote:I think if you look at it logically, the fans felt that the Skins couldn't win with Brunell. Thats why with every mistake, they were at his head. As for Campbell, there is a glimmer of hope that with his talents, he is our best opportunity to win. The hard part is we just aren't very good. I think if everything stays the same and we can keep a majority of the players, Cambell will have a better opportunity to succeed.

See, the argument could be made that there's a double standard going the other way, when it comes to justifying a performance. People cried out for Mark's head, saying he brought down the team, but, now with the kid in there, the reality sets in that it was the team as a whole and NOT SOLELY the QB that was the cause of our stinkage, and the "fans" ( I like doing that ) give JC a free pass. What gives?

BTW, the glimmer of hope seen for two solid weeks faded abruptly against the Panthers, IMO. Had I been at the stadium, I'da started a "CO-LLINS" chant.

And I agree with BH, the kid stunk on Sunday, but I do know he'll get better. Let's pray it happens this week against the hated iggles.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think if you look at it logically, the fans felt that the Skins couldn't win with Brunell. Thats why with every mistake, they were at his head. As for Campbell, there is a glimmer of hope that with his talents, he is our best opportunity to win. The hard part is we just aren't very good. I think if everything stays the same and we can keep a majority of the players, Cambell will have a better opportunity to succeed.

See, the argument could be made that there's a double standard going the other way, when it comes to justifying a performance. People cried out for Mark's head, saying he brought down the team, but, now with the kid in there, the reality sets in that it was the team as a whole and NOT SOLELY the QB that was the cause of our stinkage, and the "fans" ( I like doing that ) give JC a free pass. What gives?

It's his THIRD game, and still hasn't had a full offseason as the unquestioned starter to be truly prepared. JC's doing about as well as you'd expect him to do, given the circumstances.

The Hogster wrote:If Campbell gets that ball out of bounds, like he was trying to do, or if our line doesn't get blasted such that the other fat lineman isn't there to pick it off...people would be calling his move "crafty" and "smart' since he wouldn't have taken us out of FG range...it was a bad play, the defense was in the right place, but its not all his fault....I seem to remember 3 red jerseys in the backfield when he turned around....

If he had gotten the ball out of bounds he would have been flagged for intentional grounding and would have moved the team out of FG range. He should have taken the sack. But he is young and I am more concerned about the four other picks that he almost threw on outs because of how long it take for him to release the ball. Unless he changes his throwing motion you can count on him throwing 1 or 2 picks a year in the flats that go for TDs. The team can uses that to trick DB and catches them biting on pump fakes, but will they?

skinsfan#33 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:If Campbell gets that ball out of bounds, like he was trying to do, or if our line doesn't get blasted such that the other fat lineman isn't there to pick it off...people would be calling his move "crafty" and "smart' since he wouldn't have taken us out of FG range...it was a bad play, the defense was in the right place, but its not all his fault....I seem to remember 3 red jerseys in the backfield when he turned around....

If he had gotten the ball out of bounds he would have been flagged for intentional grounding and would have moved the team out of FG range. He should have taken the sack. But he is young and I am more concerned about the four other picks that he almost threw on outs because of how long it take for him to release the ball. Unless he changes his throwing motion you can count on him throwing 1 or 2 picks a year in the flats that go for TDs. The team can uses that to trick DB and catches them biting on pump fakes, but will they?

He would not have been flagged for intentional grounding if he threw the ball out of bounds in the general vicinity of a receiver. Since the ball didn't go beyond the LOS there is no way to say for sure he would have gotten a grounding call.

Gibbs just said yesterday that you don't try and change a guy's motion once he is at this level..he's been throwing that way his whole life, you can screw a guy up trying to do that. He joked that Leftwich brings the ball all the way down to the ground before he releases it and he has success...the throwing motion is not his problem...he just needs to play, learn and improve.

The Hogster wrote:Gibbs just said yesterday that you don't try and change a guy's motion once he is at this level..he's been throwing that way his whole life, you can screw a guy up trying to do that.

See: Ramsey, Patrick (during his Spurrier Days)

Ramsey had and probably still has an NFL starter's arm and it's a shame the way it all went down for him here. Mark Brunell came in and ruined any shot PRam had.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Ramsey had and probably still has an NFL starter's arm and it's a shame the way it all went down for him here. Mark Brunell came in and ruined any shot PRam had.

Spurrier ruined Ramsey

Logically, Brunell was a better QB than Ramsey. He's p[robaly better than Cambell right now, but not next year, and the year after. Campbell has to do something sometime. Better at 4-8 than 7-5.

Gibbs studied Ramsey's films. He knew what Ramsey could do . He picked Brunell.

Have we forgotten The Redeemed One, who watched training camp last year, and told us, to our astonishment, that Brunell has a quicker mind and arm than Ramsey?

Who was right?

Does Ramsey start?

I've watched Gibbs since '81, and when he thought he could win with another player, he made a switch. Riggins? Schroeder? May? Grimm? Charlie Brown? Wilburn? The early LB's...all got shifted out.

Gibbs would rather win than inflate his ego No matter what the ESPN "experts" say.

The Hogster wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:If Campbell gets that ball out of bounds, like he was trying to do, or if our line doesn't get blasted such that the other fat lineman isn't there to pick it off...people would be calling his move "crafty" and "smart' since he wouldn't have taken us out of FG range...it was a bad play, the defense was in the right place, but its not all his fault....I seem to remember 3 red jerseys in the backfield when he turned around....

If he had gotten the ball out of bounds he would have been flagged for intentional grounding and would have moved the team out of FG range. He should have taken the sack. But he is young and I am more concerned about the four other picks that he almost threw on outs because of how long it take for him to release the ball. Unless he changes his throwing motion you can count on him throwing 1 or 2 picks a year in the flats that go for TDs. The team can uses that to trick DB and catches them biting on pump fakes, but will they?

He would not have been flagged for intentional grounding if he threw the ball out of bounds in the general vicinity of a receiver. Since the ball didn't go beyond the LOS there is no way to say for sure he would have gotten a grounding call.

Gibbs just said yesterday that you don't try and change a guy's motion once he is at this level..he's been throwing that way his whole life, you can screw a guy up trying to do that. He joked that Leftwich brings the ball all the way down to the ground before he releases it and he has success...the throwing motion is not his problem...he just needs to play, learn and improve.

Just keep watching. Either Campbell will HAVE to change his throwing motion or the Skins will have to game plan to cover it up. Double move and pump fakes will help keep the DB's from jumping a pass or the team could just throw out any quick outs. Because to pull off a "quick out" you have to get the bAll out quick! I just hope Philly doesn't take one to the house today.

BossHog wrote:JC pretty much stunk on Sunday...

This TEAM stunk on Sunday like it has for many Sundays this season. That being said, I really don't want to hear anything about a Boonell revival from Gibbs or anyone else for that matter. He is old, there is NOTHING left in his tank, and I don't even want to see him on my team after this season. We shouldn't even have to worry about this guy starting here EVER again.

I thought JC played well save for the 1 int.

Whenever Brunell had a horrible game Gibbs always said...

" I think the quarterback is a reflection of whats going on around him "

Now that Campbell has had his first ugly game Joe says...

" It was a tough day for Jason, I'm sure there we're alot of things he wishes he could have back"

And Gibbs would have been right. Brunell knows how to play QB in the NFL. He makes quick decisions, he reads a defense. With WR's, the Redskins would have won the SB last year.

Campbell is learning. Yes, he is a work in progress, but he is the future. Ramsey, last year's everybody's magic cure, is sitting behind Chad Pennington. Ramsey had a fair chance to replce Pennington, but couldn't.

If the Redskins were leading the NFC East, we'd have Brunell starting, and rightfully.

Oh, and it is clear that Gibbs played Brunell because Gibs thought he was a better QB.

Not because Spurrier drafted Ramsey. Think, people. Gibbs and Bugel and others went over and over film of Ramsey. Gibbs is the coach who works until 4am studying films.

Gibbs made his decision: Ramsey should not start.

This was not an issue that "Gibbs only likes old QB's", as everyone says. Look at the old rosters. He started with Joey T., who was in his prime. When Joe was hurt, Gibbs replaced him with Jay Schoeder, who had been a minor-league baseball catcher after quitting college. The only change he ever made was to replace Schoeder with Doug Wiliams -- a veteran -- after Schoeder rifled too many passses into the dirt. Schroeder later did...what for the Raiders? Gibbs replaced Williams with Mark Rypien when Williams was hurt.

The only other case I know where Gibbs brought in a veteran to replace a kid QB was when he collected Jeff Rutledge, career backup, to replace Stan Humphries as number two QB. Humphries, remember, had been given the number one job after the '90 season, but neglected to study the playbook or to keep in shape. Gibbs took that as an indication of character, and let him sit through the SB 26 season.

That's the history, not the ESPN blather.

Is Campbell the next Rypien? Or the next Schroeder? So far, he looks like Mark the Ripper, playing without that era's Hogs, without Monk-Clark-Sanders, without Don Warren.

We'll have to wait to see who he really is.

As Gibbs said, sure, Campbell made some mistakes. He's learning.

welch wrote:As Gibbs said, sure, Campbell made some mistakes. He's learning.

We knew there was going to be a learning curve. It was going to be tough.

welch wrote:Have we forgotten The Redeemed One, who watched training camp last year, and told us, to our astonishment, that Brunell has a quicker mind and arm than Ramsey?

Who was right?

Dang! I was right wasn't I? Thanks for the shout-out.