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trouble brewing with brandon lloyd?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:02 am
by die cowboys die
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01385.html

as i recall, sanfran was glad to get rid of him because of some specific personality/attitude issues. is he stirring up trouble here now?

i've sort of given him a free pass this year- i haven't been too critical of his lack of production, because we didn't even have a quarterback for most of the season, and just switched to brand new, 1st-time starter at QB.

i really hope this isn't as bad as it may seem, since we traded what, a 3rd and 4th rounder for this guy?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:18 am
by Champsturf
WOW. That doesn't sound good at all. I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but I don't think it's a good thing.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:42 am
by HEROHAMO
Either way Lloyd is a good player. We need our players to grow in this system. He is a first year player hopefully he and the rest of the WR corps can get a comaradirie going.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:42 am
by Irn-Bru
To me this is an issue where it's great to have Joe Gibbs as head coach:

"I think with Brandon, there is the helmet issue during the game and I think we had a good talk today," Gibbs said. "I think he's a bright young guy. He's got a good future with us. I just want to make sure that me and him are on the same page going forward. And I gave him some things to think about and I'll talk with him [again today]. So there's no reason for me to think that we're not going to see eye-to-eye when we get through talking."



He treats his players like men, and his players respond to him. In my opinion, the article is over-emphasizing the discipline involved (notice how there isn't a quote given for the possibility that Lloyd will be inactive this Sunday. . .sounds more like a question that a reporter asked than something Gibbs had to report. My 2 cents)

What I've seen from Lloyd this year on the field and in the THN radio shows is that he's passionate, even passionate to a fault. There's no question that he's giving it his all. . .these aren't crybaby breakouts like you see with other teams (Shockey, Randy Moss, T.O., etc.) but explosions because Lloyd wants to win.

My gut feeling is that the fact that his frustrations aren't Lloyd-centered but team centered will make conversation with Gibbs productive.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 am
by SkinsFreak
Irn-Bru wrote:To me this is an issue where it's great to have Joe Gibbs as head coach:

"I think with Brandon, there is the helmet issue during the game and I think we had a good talk today," Gibbs said. "I think he's a bright young guy. He's got a good future with us. I just want to make sure that me and him are on the same page going forward. And I gave him some things to think about and I'll talk with him [again today]. So there's no reason for me to think that we're not going to see eye-to-eye when we get through talking."



He treats his players like men, and his players respond to him. In my opinion, the article is over-emphasizing the discipline involved (notice how there isn't a quote given for the possibility that Lloyd will be inactive this Sunday. . .sounds more like a question that a reporter asked than something Gibbs had to report. My 2 cents)

What I've seen from Lloyd this year on the field and in the THN radio shows is that he's passionate, even passionate to a fault. There's no question that he's giving it his all. . .these aren't crybaby breakouts like you see with other teams (Shockey, Randy Moss, T.O., etc.) but explosions because Lloyd wants to win.

My gut feeling is that the fact that his frustrations aren't Lloyd-centered but team centered will make conversation with Gibbs productive.


Agreed. Good post, Irn-Bru!

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:03 am
by BossHog
Some of these reporters just slay me.

I'm not really sure what a receiver is supposed to do about a quarterback not throwing him the ball. On Sunday alone, I counted at least seven times where Brandon was wide open and not thrown to. A couple of them he was behind EVERYBODY and Jason just never got him the ball.

It's been the same all year long... to me... to write about a lack of production is just an unintelligent representation of B.Lloyd's season.

Having said that, tossing your helmet and getting a 15-yard penalty is never a good thing.

But I have to say... while the penalty wasn't good... PERSONALLY, I was happy to see SOMEONE looked like they give a crap. Unfortunate that it came out in the way of frustration and cost the team some yards, but to me... to make this into some kind of big deal is really just an exaggeration brought about by an awful season. If we were 8-4, it would have just been a bad penalty brought about by raw emotion... but since the season is in the tanks... the media are blowing this up as much as they can. How else would a reporter get you to click on a link. :roll:

We spoke to Brandon last night... he said he didn't know what his status would be for Sunday, but we will likely talk to him again tomorrow and I'll ask him about his meeting today with Joe. If he does get benched for the incident to make an example of it... I'd just be a little curious as to how it sends a good message to the team to penalize heart and determination. Brandon's passionate about winning, he's a fiery guy. He also wants to help this team win. That doesn't justify the incident... and the helmet toss was unfortunate, but let's face it.. if we had a few more guys playing with a little pride, maybe we wouldn't be already wondering what next year will hold.

My 2 cents

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:16 am
by SkinsFreak
BossHog wrote:Some of these reporters just slay me.

I'm not really sure what a receiver is supposed to do about a quarterback not throwing him the ball. On Sunday alone, I counted at least seven times where Brandon was wide open and not thrown to. A couple of them he was behind EVERYBODY and Jason just never got him the ball.

It's been the same all year long... to me... to write about a lack of production is just an unintelligent representation of B.Lloyd's season.

Having said that, tossing your helmet and getting a 15-yard penalty is never a good thing.

But I have to say... while the penalty wasn't good... PERSONALLY, I was happy to see SOMEONE looked like they give a crap. Unfortunate that it came out in the way of frustration and cost the team some yards, but to me... to make this into some kind of big deal is really just an exaggeration brought about by an awful season. If we were 8-4, it would have just been a bad penalty brought about by raw emotion... but since the season is in the tanks... the media are blowing this up as much as they can. How else would a reporter get you to click on a link. :roll:

We spoke to Brandon last night... he said he didn't know what his status would be for Sunday, but we will likely talk to him again tomorrow and I'll ask him about his meeting today with Joe. If he does get benched for the incident to make an example of it... I'd just be a little curious as to how it sends a good message to the team to penalize heart and determination. Brandon's passionate about winning, he's a fiery guy. He also wants to help this team win. That doesn't justify the incident... and the helmet toss was unfortunate, but let's face it.. if we had a few more guys playing with a little pride, maybe we wouldn't be already wondering what next year will hold.

My 2 cents


Yep. And anything written in the Washington Post, I take with a grain of salt. :roll:

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:26 am
by Redskin in Canada
I am always surprised about the contradiction between the personality of a given player that is portrayed in the media and the real personalities of our players in person.

Brandon Lloyd has a very different personality than the simple rage-prone image that the article tries to portray. This guy has a complex personality. He likes to have a good time and jokes with friends and fellow players. But he also looks at the world seriously if you hear his music. He is kind to young people and fans in general. He is definitely serious about the game and he cares deeply about playing well and winning.

He knows he has to give time to Jason to mature and check all of his options. We knew that Jason had a learning curve ahead. The fact that the Falcons defense was able to get on his face or actually make contact -every- time they blitzed did very little to provide him with the necessary time to check all his options, particularly the deep ones.

The -one- thing that made me happy on Sunday was the ability of Jason and its receivers (mainlySantana, Lloyd and Cooley) to try to get their timing and route connections right. Jason needs to be able to throw the ball knowing exactly where his receivers are going to be (sometimes before they make a move).

I am OK with Brandon. Please do not encourage the media to spread lies about this guy.

PS. I do not know about you guys but I wanted to do worse than throw a helmet around on Sunday. :wink:

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:49 am
by MEZZSKIN
I agree with Boss Hog on everything except one thing. We just dont know what really happened. We think we know but we dont. He was seen screaming on the sidelines...Well what was he screaming? I have a funny feeling he said some things during his tirade he wishes he didnt say. Remember he publicly in front of full veiw showed up brunell in Indy and ARE put him in his place.
With the season tanked and Gibbs very cognizant the whole sports world is watching to see if this team quits on him now. This is necessary.
B-Loyd desrves this punishment. You know why I feel he desrves it....Because Gibbs says so. thats good enough for me. Gibbs has shown a very patient veiw with all things in 2nd era...Things reached a point that coach Joe said enough is enough(things are probably happening in locker room and on the Practice field we just dont know about. Remember guys we see this team for 3 hours a week..thats it!..They work every day....Theres more here. Why 2 meetings ???...They must be going over alot more then just throwing a helmet. Kudos to Gibbs

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:09 am
by roybus14
BossHog wrote:Some of these reporters just slay me.

I'm not really sure what a receiver is supposed to do about a quarterback not throwing him the ball. On Sunday alone, I counted at least seven times where Brandon was wide open and not thrown to. A couple of them he was behind EVERYBODY and Jason just never got him the ball.

It's been the same all year long... to me... to write about a lack of production is just an unintelligent representation of B.Lloyd's season.

Having said that, tossing your helmet and getting a 15-yard penalty is never a good thing.

But I have to say... while the penalty wasn't good... PERSONALLY, I was happy to see SOMEONE looked like they give a crap. Unfortunate that it came out in the way of frustration and cost the team some yards, but to me... to make this into some kind of big deal is really just an exaggeration brought about by an awful season. If we were 8-4, it would have just been a bad penalty brought about by raw emotion... but since the season is in the tanks... the media are blowing this up as much as they can. How else would a reporter get you to click on a link. :roll:

We spoke to Brandon last night... he said he didn't know what his status would be for Sunday, but we will likely talk to him again tomorrow and I'll ask him about his meeting today with Joe. If he does get benched for the incident to make an example of it... I'd just be a little curious as to how it sends a good message to the team to penalize heart and determination. Brandon's passionate about winning, he's a fiery guy. He also wants to help this team win. That doesn't justify the incident... and the helmet toss was unfortunate, but let's face it.. if we had a few more guys playing with a little pride, maybe we wouldn't be already wondering what next year will hold.

My 2 cents


Boss,

I agree... Maybe it was a mistake bringing him here when you already have Moss and Cooley and a QB that for most of the season, couldn't get the ball to any of them. Not enough balls to go around and we now have our "future" behind center and he is still learning the offense.

Also, remember this.... You are only as good as the balls you catch. When Santana gets his opportunities, he makes the most of them. The same with Cooley. Yes, Brandon has made some good catches this season but the important one's, like the deep ball in Tampa, are the ones he has to make. He makes that catch in Tampa, we would probably see more deep balls to him and/or Santana. He makes that catch in Tampa, teams now are nervous because we now have to "legitimate" deep threats.

The other thing missing from this whole equation is the defense and the run game. Everybody knows about our defense or lack there of, but our run game has not been consistent enough to allow us to go down the field to Lloyd, ARE, and Santana. Combine those things, and that is why our receivers are wide open not getting the ball. Yes, the pass blocking could be better but would be better if there was the legitimate threat of the play action to sell the LBs and Safeties on the run and stopping it, then going down the field.

Re: trouble brewing with brandon lloyd?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:18 am
by Uaintready
The trouble with Brandon Llyod is that he getting open and he is not big part in the offense. I cant even count how many times he has has beaten one on one coverage and the ball has not been thrown his way. His fustration is understandable, he wants to help the team but for some reason you look at his numbers of his way of production. I think he has had several blocks down field where it help spring other people for touchdowns. And if im not mistaken he has the most long yardage plays of any reciver.




die cowboys die wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-

dyn/content/article/2006/12/04/AR2006120401385.html

as i recall, sanfran was glad to get rid of him because of some specific personality/attitude issues. is he stirring up trouble here now?

i've sort of given him a free pass this year- i haven't been too critical of his lack of production, because we didn't even have a quarterback for most of the season, and just switched to brand new, 1st-time starter at QB.

i really hope this isn't as bad as it may seem, since we traded what, a 3rd and 4th rounder for this guy?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:40 am
by Cappster
Patience is a virtue. I say that for two reasons. One is for everyone on here to realize that this team is a work in progress. I think we took a step back this year but we have seen flashes of what our team can do when they are running on all cylinders.

Two is for Lloyd to realize the same thing. He has had a crippled quarterback for over half of the year and now he has a young buck under center. Both of those account for him not getting looked at as much. Combine that with shotty pass protection and you get the result of a helmet being thrown at the wrong time because of his frustration with lack of production. I anticipate (hopefully over our remaining games) that Campbell will learn to find the open receiver a little faster.

Hopefully he can find Lloyd and use him as one of the primary playmakers. I think that Lloyd's downfield blocking is very important on a team that likes to attack the edges. We just need to get him the ball downfield. Again, it is a work in progress so a little patience can go a long way into helping this team win and to building chemistry amongst our players and coaches.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:43 am
by KazooSkinsFan
BossHog wrote:But I have to say... while the penalty wasn't good... PERSONALLY, I was happy to see SOMEONE looked like they give a crap.

I'm normally a Joe Gibbs type with penalties, you never take them. Especially stupid ones like taking your helmet off you can avoid by not taking your helmet off. But he took the 15 yarder over the play that was the nail in our coffin. The game was over. Done. Finished. I took it as disgust, the kind of disgust I want to see.

I hope we keep him and grow the team, we have to stop churning. We need to tweek. Get a good first rounder. Maybe sign some roll players and depth. We have plenty of talent, we'll never get better if we do another roster overhaul.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:23 pm
by dnpmakkah
BossHog wrote:Some of these reporters just slay me.

I'm not really sure what a receiver is supposed to do about a quarterback not throwing him the ball.
Well how should the reporter go about reporting this news? Gibbs obviously felt a need to have a meeting with Lloyd so this is something that is major in his eyes and the reporter is spreading the news to us. I say you go down to the Washington Post and show them how its really done!

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:35 pm
by admin
How do you know it's something 'major'? Because the media told you so? Of course Joe Gibbs is going to have a chat with him... as I said... you can't lose your temper in a manner that costs your team yards. Other than that... all I saw from the display was a little bit of passion.

Since we actually sat in the same room and talked to the guy for an hour last night... I think I have a pretty good idea of where Brandon's at and where Brandon thinks Joe Gibbs is at. I haven't seen a thing reported yet that sounded like what came out of Brandon himself's mouth... but you believe whatever you like... that's the 'beauty' of the internet... you can spread truths, half-truths or total fabrications in no time flat. :roll:

I don't need to try and sell any papers or care who does or doesn't read what we put out... I don't subscribe to 'unnamed source' journalism, so I'm not 'fit' to work at the Washington Post or any other major media outlet. :up:

That's okay though... I'm happy being true to myself and living with not living the high life of a beat reporter. Besides... it'd hurt to have half my brain sucked out. :wink:

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:38 pm
by nnskinsfan
His temperament seems a lot like Gary Clark and that worked out okay. I think he'll be fine.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:55 pm
by gregory smith
Coach Gibbs cannot allow a player to go off like Lloyd did. A young QB has to have the support of his team. The play calling has been conservative in an attempt to help Campbell so I feel sure that Gibbs will protect and defend him in the face of an immature player like Brandon.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:03 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
dnpmakkah wrote:
BossHog wrote:Some of these reporters just slay me.

I'm not really sure what a receiver is supposed to do about a quarterback not throwing him the ball.
Well how should the reporter go about reporting this news? Gibbs obviously felt a need to have a meeting with Lloyd so this is something that is major in his eyes and the reporter is spreading the news to us. I say you go down to the Washington Post and show them how its really done!


What sort of reporter is this? "But his primary message concerned Lloyd, who has produced arguably the most disappointing season of any player on the offense." Yes, I expect a reporter to follow the team closer than that. Have they actually watched any games? To talk about Lloyd producing short of expectations is reasonable. But where's the discussion of our having an over the hill QB and now essentially a rookie throw him the ball.

Lloyd is the most disappointing on an offense that is routinely stuck on 3 points well into the second half? You have to be kidding. Clearly Clinton and Brunell are the most disappointing by far of anyone on the O. I'm not blaming CP because of injuries which started with hussle, but disappointing means short of expectations. Clinton is over 1000 yards short of expectations. And Brunell couldn't complete a pass down field to Jerry Rice in his prime.

Also Fauria and the unseen Patton are bigger dissapointments. The O Line has been overall very disappointing this year. It seems to be improving some, especially on rushing, but didn't we expect a lot from them now that they are one area that's had plenty of time to jell and we pay them a ton of dough?

Lloyd has done well when thrown the ball, including some nice grabs that the QB threw up and he made a play on. Most of the time our QB isn't looking and can't throw even when they do.

We certainly expect more from Lloyd then we got this year, but it's reasonable for him to expect the team to have a QB who can throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.

So specifically to sum up, I don't blame a reporter for being tough on Lloyd's stats, but yes, I expect them to know something about the Redskins and Lloyds actual play not just his stats if they are going to write a story on it.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:24 pm
by die cowboys die
roybus14 wrote:Also, remember this.... You are only as good as the balls you catch. When Santana gets his opportunities, he makes the most of them. The same with Cooley. Yes, Brandon has made some good catches this season but the important one's, like the deep ball in Tampa, are the ones he has to make. He makes that catch in Tampa, we would probably see more deep balls to him and/or Santana. He makes that catch in Tampa, teams now are nervous because we now have to "legitimate" deep threats.


i'm not sure i believe that moss and cooley have done more with their chances than lloyd. moss and cooley both have a ton of drops on very catchable balls. don't get me wrong, they've done some really great things too, obviously. i just don't think that lloyd has been less consistent then them.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:59 pm
by Irn-Bru
KazooSkinsFan wrote:So specifically to sum up, I don't blame a reporter for being tough on Lloyd's stats, but yes, I expect them to know something about the Redskins and Lloyds actual play not just his stats if they are going to write a story on it.



Well, that's why the reporter threw out the word "arguably," which is arguably the most meaning-deprived word in all of sports commentary today. Most instances of "arguably" really mean "here's a claim that I don't intend to back up" or "here's how I'm going to overemphasize something to make my rant look legitimate."

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:00 pm
by roybus14
die cowboys die wrote:
roybus14 wrote:Also, remember this.... You are only as good as the balls you catch. When Santana gets his opportunities, he makes the most of them. The same with Cooley. Yes, Brandon has made some good catches this season but the important one's, like the deep ball in Tampa, are the ones he has to make. He makes that catch in Tampa, we would probably see more deep balls to him and/or Santana. He makes that catch in Tampa, teams now are nervous because we now have to "legitimate" deep threats.


i'm not sure i believe that moss and cooley have done more with their chances than lloyd. moss and cooley both have a ton of drops on very catchable balls. don't get me wrong, they've done some really great things too, obviously. i just don't think that lloyd has been less consistent then them.


DcD,

I hear what you are saying but does has Lloyd turned any of his catches into touchdowns??? Cooley has (the sixty yarder two weeks ago) and Moss has (the bomb two days ago). I know that Santana and Chris have had drops but how many on deep throws or throws could have been a touchdown???

Here's the other thing too; these guys know and talk with other players about how the team is doing and what's their future before they go there. We caught lightening in a bottle at the end of last season, combined with the "get paid factor" of becoming a Redskin, sold Lloyd and ARE and not who was throwing them the ball. My point is, IMO, that they took the money even though deep down, many here and around the league knew that Brunell was done as a viable QB in this league. How could Lloyd turn down the money they offered him when he didn't even break 80 catches or 1,000 yards? ARE got his ring and probably in his mind, he wanted to get paid, so he came here....

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:15 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Irn-Bru wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:So specifically to sum up, I don't blame a reporter for being tough on Lloyd's stats, but yes, I expect them to know something about the Redskins and Lloyds actual play not just his stats if they are going to write a story on it.



Well, that's why the reporter threw out the word "arguably," which is arguably the most meaning-deprived word in all of sports commentary today. Most instances of "arguably" really mean "here's a claim that I don't intend to back up" or "here's how I'm going to overemphasize something to make my rant look legitimate."


Yes, that's true. I can argue that the German pope born in pre-war Germany was Hitler's love child, but that doesn't make it not nonsense. I'm not arguing with you on this, I understand yor point on the word "arguably."

But if Lloyd had 20 more catches for 300 more yards, he would be right there with Moss. Can anyone really argue (I know you're not making this argument) they would rather have:

- Lloyd catch 20 more balls for 300 yards or Brunell able to complete passes downfield?

- Lloyd catch 20 more balls for 300 yards or Portis on pace to get 1500 yards this year rather than the 542 yards he got?

- Lloyd catch 20 more balls for 300 yards or the OL have provided good pass rush protection for our QBs and better run blocking before we were already almost eliminated from the playoffs?

Then there's the thing that the OL couldn't stop a pass rush for Brunell who couldn't throw and arguably it's Lloyds fault he didn't catch the pass.

Someone commented on Moss. Moss is great, not dissing him. But Brunell followed this formula.

- Look to Moss. If he's not standing wide open by himself throw it away. That did happen a few times. Brunell did not even look to Lloyd.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:41 pm
by REDEEMEDSKIN
roybus14 wrote:My point is, IMO, that they took the money even though deep down, many here and around the league knew that Brunell was done as a viable QB in this league. How could Lloyd turn down the money they offered him when he didn't even break 80 catches or 1,000 yards? ARE got his ring and probably in his mind, he wanted to get paid, so he came here....


That post is the biggest pile of hog wash I've ever read on these boards. To insinuate that they only came here to cash a check is insulting to them as professionals. These guys have not taken a Club Med vacation while here!!!

If anything, these guys are working hard on EVERY play. Your observation, IMO, is extremely shortsighted and fails to see these guys for the passionate workers they really are. Sure, the numbers are down in terms of receptions, but you can't take away their key downfield blocking on several touchdowns this year, not to mention ARE's explosiveness on special teams.

We're 4-8, and no amount of poo-pooing of the individuals on the team is gonna make that go away. Learn to deal with it without talking nonsense. My 2 cents

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:34 pm
by SkinsJock
admin wrote:How do you know it's something 'major'? Because the media told you so? Of course Joe Gibbs is going to have a chat with him... as I said... you can't lose your temper in a manner that costs your team yards. Other than that... all I saw from the display was a little bit of passion.

Since we actually sat in the same room and talked to the guy for an hour last night... I think I have a pretty good idea of where Brandon's at and where Brandon thinks Joe Gibbs is at. I haven't seen a thing reported yet that sounded like what came out of Brandon himself's mouth... but you believe whatever you like... that's the 'beauty' of the internet... you can spread truths, half-truths or total fabrications in no time flat. :roll:

I don't need to try and sell any papers or care who does or doesn't read what we put out... I don't subscribe to 'unnamed source' journalism, so I'm not 'fit' to work at the Washington Post or any other major media outlet. :up:

That's okay though... I'm happy being true to myself and living with not living the high life of a beat reporter. Besides... it'd hurt to have half my brain sucked out. :wink:


Thanks for the inside info BH! :up:

I watched the Gibbs last night and all I gathered was that he (Gibbs) had already had a conversation with LLoyd and they were going to talk again and ensure that both were on the same page. Gibbs left little doubt IMO that this was not that big an issue for either of them and he just wanted to keep focused and not make mistakes that hurt the team.

IMO this has been blown out of proportion by the media and I am sure that LLoyd's frustration was a "convenient" excuse to try and make something of it!

I think we will see Lloyd contributing to this team's success for a few more years and I think he is going to be a major player for us.

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:08 pm
by RedskinsFreak
On today's Riggins show, they played his clip from Monday night's show with Bram and he brushed off his actions as if they were OK and that 'it didn't hurt the team that much.'

Gimme a break.