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Redskins lowballed Ryan Clark
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:42 pm
by SkinzCanes
From LaConfora's blog....
Picked up some other details on the other big loss from the secondary, Ryan Clark. Been digging around a little bit, and while the Redskins gave Arch Deluxe $10 million guaranteed, they low-balled Ryan. According to people very much in the know, the Redskins initial signing bonus offer to Clark was $500,000, and they went as "high" as $750,000. Excuse me while I cough.
Clark told the team repeatedly that he would immediately sign, at any point, for $1.5 mil bonus on a four year deal worth a maximum, yes, that's maximum, of $5.8 million, according to sources. Snyder told him he would never see that kind of money. It was brought up to Snyder that in fact, all Ryan was asking for was in essence the contract that injured safety Matt Bowen had signed with the Redskins a few years prior, and, given the passage of time, and Clark's production, that was a plenty fair salary request for a starting safety on a top-10 defense.
Snyder told Clark that the team was through overspending on players like it did for Bowen, and he had learned from his mistakes. Yes, you read that last sentence correctly. He actually said that prior to last March's ridiculous free agent splurge.
Clark received $7 million over four years, with $1.65 million guaranteed, from the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers, and has been making plays for them all season. The Redskins could be facing another LaVargate with Archuleta. Some things never change.
To his credit, Snyder ducked out of a meeting to calll and congratulate Clark on his contract from Pittsburgh in March , to thank him for his service to the team and to tell him he would always have a home at Redskins Park. Classy move, but, like with Antonio Pierce, it came way too late.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2006/11/monday_morning_hback_7.html#more
Re: Redskins lowballed Ryan Clark
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:16 pm
by unter13
SkinzCanes wrote:From LaConfora's blog....
Picked up some other details on the other big loss from the secondary, Ryan Clark. Been digging around a little bit, and while the Redskins gave Arch Deluxe $10 million guaranteed, they low-balled Ryan. According to people very much in the know, the Redskins initial signing bonus offer to Clark was $500,000, and they went as "high" as $750,000. Excuse me while I cough.
Clark told the team repeatedly that he would immediately sign, at any point, for $1.5 mil bonus on a four year deal worth a maximum, yes, that's maximum, of $5.8 million, according to sources. Snyder told him he would never see that kind of money. It was brought up to Snyder that in fact, all Ryan was asking for was in essence the contract that injured safety Matt Bowen had signed with the Redskins a few years prior, and, given the passage of time, and Clark's production, that was a plenty fair salary request for a starting safety on a top-10 defense.
Snyder told Clark that the team was through overspending on players like it did for Bowen, and he had learned from his mistakes. Yes, you read that last sentence correctly. He actually said that prior to last March's ridiculous free agent splurge.
Clark received $7 million over four years, with $1.65 million guaranteed, from the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers, and has been making plays for them all season. The Redskins could be facing another LaVargate with Archuleta. Some things never change.
To his credit, Snyder ducked out of a meeting to calll and congratulate Clark on his contract from Pittsburgh in March , to thank him for his service to the team and to tell him he would always have a home at Redskins Park. Classy move, but, like with Antonio Pierce, it came way too late.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2006/11/monday_morning_hback_7.html#more
I hate the way the Redskins work. Synder and the Skins front office is the second biggest joke in the NFL. Second to the Raiders of course.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:19 pm
by PulpExposure
Yeah, that blog was a really good (but depressing as hell) read. There was a hell of a lot to pick up from it.
I went the Williams route with my other post, but this Ryan Clark part was in some respects even more depressing.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:21 pm
by UK Skins Fan
You often don't realise what you've got until it's gone, and Ryan Clark is a fine example. The sick thing is that there are supposed to be people in the Redskins' front office who are paid to know what we've got, and make sure that we keep it.
I agree completely with Joe Gibbs regarding keeping together a group of core Redskins. I just wish that these guys would realise who the core guys are.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:37 pm
by nuskins
I have repeatedly said that we lowballed Ryan Clark here on this forum in other posts and the "homers" are so quick to reply that he didn't want to be here, wasn't a core Redskin yada, yada, yada. I read somewhere that the dude was in tears with how everything played out and wanted more than anything to remain a Redskin and that several members of the defense were lobbying the coaches asking them to do anything they could to keep him here.
Someday people are going to learn that we have the absolute worst owner in the NFL. Danny boy has run more talent out of here than he has overpaid to bring in. The mans ego cannot be matched. Who do you think pays for all of this wasted money in FA? WE DO? Ticket prices have gone up every year, parking prices go up every season and Danny boy spends away bringing more over the hill big names in here to sell more hype and jersey's!
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:10 pm
by The Hogster
Why is Danny making these decisions? He's not a GM. He doesn't know what Clark would get in Free Agency...I mentioned this as well...its clear Danny needs someone else in his ear.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:34 pm
by SkinsJock
Since Snyder brought Gibbs back (thank you Dan Snyder) Gibbs has been primarily responsible for who is playing for him. I believe that he works together with the other coaches but he and Cerrato and Snyder make the final decisions.
I agree that it is a shame some of the players have left but I'm also glad that some of the players who have left who are regarded as good players elsewhere are not here because for the most part IMO they did not want to stay OR they did not fit what Gibbs wanted.
Snyder is the owner and he's not leaving - that is a reality. We can fantasize all we want but I want the real Redskins to be good not some fantasy team. I have not heard anyone suggest who they would like to have here in this situation with this owner. I think UK Skins Fan asked this also and I agree - we are in a world of trouble if Gibbs cannot get this thing straightened out.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:42 pm
by roybus14
Here are the real questions I have about the Clark situation:
Did they low-ball him because Snyder wanted to or did they low-ball him because Joe and GW told Snyder to do it because even though they said he was a "core guy", GW didn't want him?????
It's just mind-boggling that a "core guy" who only wants an old contract that Bowen had is let go for a guy that costs you 3-4-5 times more. Rich guys are rich guys because even though they spend alot, they are still some tight bastards and I find it hard to believe that Snyder was willing to let this guy go for peanuts. To me, this sounds like GW wanted AA so bad that he said 'screw the core guy' because Snyder out-bid everybody to get him.... That to me, sounds like GW and not Snyder didn't want Clark. To low-bid a guy that low tells you that he wasn't wanted....
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:10 pm
by Jake
The Hogster wrote:Why is Danny making these decisions? He's not a GM. He doesn't know what Clark would get in Free Agency...I mentioned this as well...its clear Danny needs someone else in his ear.
Hmm... so Joe doesn't necessarily control who we keep and let go? I thought he was supposed to be in control of player personel decisons?
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:37 pm
by PulpExposure
nuskins wrote:Someday people are going to learn that we have the absolute worst owner in the NFL.
You obviously don't pay attention to Arizona or Detroit if you think that's true.
We have the most
impatient owner in the NFL, but at least he's willing to spend money on the Redskins.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:38 pm
by nuskins
PulpExposure wrote:nuskins wrote:Someday people are going to learn that we have the absolute worst owner in the NFL.
You obviously don't pay attention to Arizona or Detroit if you think that's true.
We have the most
impatient owner in the NFL, but at least he's willing to spend money on the Redskins.
You make a good point, I also think the point about GW wanting AA over Ryan Clark and guiding that situation is interesting and plausible.
Dan just ticks me off most of the time, the way he has done things around here. I do like that he is willing to spend anything to try and get the best players but that is clearly not working and someone needs to be accountable for the years of poor decisions! Vinny Cerrato should leave in shame.
Frankly, I am scared to have GW as head coach.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:05 pm
by PulpExposure
nuskins wrote:Dan just ticks me off most of the time, the way he has done things around here. I do like that he is willing to spend anything to try and get the best players but that is clearly not working and someone needs to be accountable for the years of poor decisions! Vinny Cerrato should leave in shame.
We need a GM to effectively harness that revenue and acquire players that can
play.
Frankly, I am scared to have GW as head coach.
Actually, I'm horrified of that prospect.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:27 pm
by The Hogster
Jake wrote:The Hogster wrote:Why is Danny making these decisions? He's not a GM. He doesn't know what Clark would get in Free Agency...I mentioned this as well...its clear Danny needs someone else in his ear.
Hmm... so Joe doesn't necessarily control who we keep and let go? I thought he was supposed to be in control of player personel decisons?
I feel sorry for Gibbs in this respect. I think that he let the media message that 'The game passed him by" get to him. He deffered to Greg Williams on the defensive decisions...largely because when he first came back the defense was great, and he was in charge of the offense. He essentially let GW call all the defensive shots.
When the offense sputtered, he essentially benched himself when he brought in Al Saunders...who is now running the offense.
No coach can effectively scout personell in college, and/or the NFL. Cerrato, and Danny were pulling those triggers.
So what we have here is a mess that Gibbs did not necessarily create, but he let it happen by taking more of a backseat. He needs to step and take charge of coaching the team, but urge Danny to bring in a General Manager.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:19 pm
by ii7-V7
This thread makes me sad
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:31 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
I don't understand this obsession with Ryan Clark. I agree emperical evidence shows that it was a mistake to let him go and a bigger one to give all that Cap to AA. No doubt. But He would not have saved our D. He's not THAT great. And our D would be making every Joe Blow a pro-bowl QB anyway.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:45 pm
by SkinzCanes
I don't understand this obsession with Ryan Clark. I agree emperical evidence shows that it was a mistake to let him go and a bigger one to give all that Cap to AA. No doubt. But He would not have saved our D. He's not THAT great. And our D would be making every Joe Blow a pro-bowl QB anyway.
Nobody is saying that Ryan Clark is a pro bowl player. But he was a very good player for us last year and he wanted to remain here. Instead of keeping a guy that wanted more than anything to stay here we overpaid for a guy (AA) who wanted to go to Chicago but came here because of all the money we were offering. Clark played hard and with intensity, something that this team right now is lacking right now. Instead of bigname free agents we need more guys like Clark that play with heart and leave it all out on the field. In addition, he was a great locker room guy and was a mentor of sorts to Sean Taylor. Portis, earlier in the season, specifiaclly pointed to Clark as a guy that the team didn't want to leave and a guy that they miss.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:27 pm
by Redskin in Canada
Defensive Stats comparison
Code: Select all
Player Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
AA 2006 Washington_Redskins 10 56 46.0 10 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 1
RC 2006 Pittsburgh_Steelers 10 57 39.0 18 0 1 -1 -1.0 -1 0 2
AA has been God-awful in pass coverage but other than that, Why is RC considered to be such a star in Pittsburgh?
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:51 pm
by The Hogster
Intangilbles like getting your teamates in the right position, leadership, and not getting burned are not visible in the stats. The stats don't show that Arch got beaten up and down the field in coverage.
It's different when you're making tackles in front of you near the line of scrimmage, but when you're tackling the guy who just beat you for 28 yards (i.e. Witten) it is much more costly to the team.
Another reason why those numbers tell another story is that the guy above has a contract with more guaranteed money than the other guys total contract. Even casting aside the 30 million figure, Arch has guarantees in his deal that make it very rich. Clark is probably a bigger star here than in Pitt...because sadly we paid alot for the guy at the top, who no longer even plays for us.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:28 pm
by Redskin in Canada
The Hogster wrote:Another reason why those numbers tell another story is that the guy above has a contract with more guaranteed money than the other guys total contract. Even casting aside the 30 million figure, Arch has guarantees in his deal that make it very rich. Clark is probably a bigger star here than in Pitt...because sadly we paid alot for the guy at the top, who no longer even plays for us.
Just when I wanted to find a reason -not- to be depressed ...
Would you like to apply for a GM job?
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:36 am
by The Hogster
Redskin in Canada wrote:The Hogster wrote:Another reason why those numbers tell another story is that the guy above has a contract with more guaranteed money than the other guys total contract. Even casting aside the 30 million figure, Arch has guarantees in his deal that make it very rich. Clark is probably a bigger star here than in Pitt...because sadly we paid alot for the guy at the top, who no longer even plays for us.
Just when I wanted to find a reason -not- to be depressed ...
Would you like to apply for a GM job?
Being a GM would be my dream job. But now that I think of it, what kind of GM would even feel comfortable telling a Hall of Fame coach who to play and who not to. It would have to be someone with a proven track record and a history of winning. But at the same time, the person has to be young enough to understand today's game and have the energy to evaluate guys from high school on up through college.
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:28 am
by KazooSkinsFan
The Hogster wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:The Hogster wrote:Another reason why those numbers tell another story is that the guy above has a contract with more guaranteed money than the other guys total contract. Even casting aside the 30 million figure, Arch has guarantees in his deal that make it very rich. Clark is probably a bigger star here than in Pitt...because sadly we paid alot for the guy at the top, who no longer even plays for us.
Just when I wanted to find a reason -not- to be depressed ...
Would you like to apply for a GM job?
Being a GM would be my dream job. But now that I think of it, what kind of GM would even feel comfortable telling a Hall of Fame coach who to play and who not to. It would have to be someone with a proven track record and a history of winning. But at the same time, the person has to be young enough to understand today's game and have the energy to evaluate guys from high school on up through college.
Remember the endless wars between Bobby Beathard and Joe? and Joe wasn't a Hall of Fame coach then.
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:42 am
by KazooSkinsFan
SkinzCanes wrote:I don't understand this obsession with Ryan Clark. I agree emperical evidence shows that it was a mistake to let him go and a bigger one to give all that Cap to AA. No doubt. But He would not have saved our D. He's not THAT great. And our D would be making every Joe Blow a pro-bowl QB anyway.
Nobody is saying that Ryan Clark is a pro bowl player. But he was a very good player for us last year and he wanted to remain here. Instead of keeping a guy that wanted more than anything to stay here we overpaid for a guy (AA) who wanted to go to Chicago but came here because of all the money we were offering. Clark played hard and with intensity, something that this team right now is lacking right now. Instead of bigname free agents we need more guys like Clark that play with heart and leave it all out on the field. In addition, he was a great locker room guy and was a mentor of sorts to Sean Taylor. Portis, earlier in the season, specifiaclly pointed to Clark as a guy that the team didn't want to leave and a guy that they miss.
So in short we agree. It was a mistake, but he was not a "pro bowl player."
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:59 am
by roybus14
The Hogster wrote:Intangilbles like getting your teamates in the right position, leadership, and not getting burned are not visible in the stats. The stats don't show that Arch got beaten up and down the field in coverage.
It's different when you're making tackles in front of you near the line of scrimmage, but when you're tackling the guy who just beat you for 28 yards (i.e. Witten) it is much more costly to the team.
Another reason why those numbers tell another story is that the guy above has a contract with more guaranteed money than the other guys total contract. Even casting aside the 30 million figure, Arch has guarantees in his deal that make it very rich. Clark is probably a bigger star here than in Pitt...because sadly we paid alot for the guy at the top, who no longer even plays for us.
Great response, Hogster... One thing you have to remember about Clark in Pittsburgh is the guy he is playing next too. Troy P. is a beast and next to Joey Porter, is one of the first names people bring up when they talk about the Steelers defense. So you are probably not going to here alot or see alot out of Clark in that regard. Yes, the Steelers are struggling but it ain't because of Clark.
Also, about a month ago, a guy called into B-Mitch's show and told B-Mitch and Scott Jackson that a "Redskin Wife" told him and his woman that Ryan Clark was the glue to that secondary that put those guys in the right place and kept Sean Taylor's head in straight. That would explain why Taylor seems to be a little off this year. He also said that the un-named "Redskin Wife" said that they didn't want AA. Now the guy didn't specify who "they" was but I am sure she was probably a defensive player's Wife.
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:52 pm
by SkinzCanes
Also, about a month ago, a guy called into B-Mitch's show and told B-Mitch and Scott Jackson that a "Redskin Wife" told him and his woman that Ryan Clark was the glue to that secondary that put those guys in the right place and kept Sean Taylor's head in straight. That would explain why Taylor seems to be a little off this year. He also said that the un-named "Redskin Wife" said that they didn't want AA. Now the guy didn't specify who "they" was but I am sure she was probably a defensive player's Wife.
On B-Mitch's show earlier in the season Portis said that Clark was a team leader and that the players didn't want him to leave. I have no idea why the coaches/front office wouldn't resign a player that was held in such high regard by his teammates. I could understand it if he was asking for more money than he is worth, but he wasn't. Clark is a bargain compared to AA, and a superior player.