The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

if the head coach wasn't joe gibbs and we had the same record,wouldn't we all be calling for his head ???
why is joe gibbs treated different ?? because of his past ?? he even has been quoted as saying what i did in the past doesn't count now.
so why are we all not calling for him to be fired ??? waiting on him to turn this team around has grown old.
so give me your reasons on why you keep your faith in him .... and don't tell me about his past already know what he did in the past.

His leadership ability.

I keep my faith in Joe Gibbs because the players are all keeping their faith in Joe Gibbs. I also have seen throughout the course of my life that Joe Gibbs is a model leader of men. He has been through tough times before and has always pulled through. While his past coaching experience may not count for anything as far as success in this go around, it does buy him the benefit of the doubt to me and many others who lived through the first Gibbs tenure.

redskinz4ever wrote:if the head coach wasn't joe gibbs and we had the same record,wouldn't we all be calling for his head ???
why is joe gibbs treated different ?? because of his past ?? he even has been quoted as saying what i did in the past doesn't count now.
so why are we all not calling for him to be fired ??? waiting on him to turn this team around has grown old.
so give me your reasons on why you keep your faith in him .... and don't tell me about his past already know what he did in the past.

Fire him as GM. When did Seattle start winning? Once Holmgren was relieved of his GM duties. Gibbs has taken a 10-6 team and made acquisitions and trades and the team is now a 5-11 or worse team. So the answer to your question is absolutely. But, you can't totally forget about the 3 super bowls.

JansenFan wrote:I keep my faith in Joe Gibbs because the players are all keeping their faith in Joe Gibbs. I also have seen throughout the course of my life that Joe Gibbs is a model leader of men. He has been through tough times before and has always pulled through. While his past coaching experience may not count for anything as far as success in this go around, it does buy him the benefit of the doubt to me and many others who lived through the first Gibbs tenure.

A great leader of men but a bad chooser of men.

Once the players start calling Gibbs out and not theirselves, (oakland, cleveland) then I will start to think Gibbs has lost it. Until then, the players just simply aren't performing.

What's his record since the return? 20-23? Not great, especially by Gibbs 1.0 standards, but not terrible either. Calling for him to be fired is very premature at this point. He's done a good job, and definitely deserves more time, even if he wasn't who he is. Still, two things stand out as very bothersome.
1) The Brunell Blindspot (now being corrected). Why was he so loyal to that guy? It was hard to fathom.

2) The personnel decisions, especially the trading away of so many draft picks. Unlike others who think Snyder's still calling the personnel shots and playing fantasy football with this team, I think Gibbs is behind all these draft picks being traded away, and it's not a good trend. We've got to get some good, cheap, young talent and depth on this team, and it's not going to happen if we keep passing out our draft picks like party favors.

Mursilis wrote:1) The Brunell Blindspot (now being corrected). Why was he so loyal to that guy? It was hard to fathom.

In fairness to "2x4", I wouldn't put it past him to come back next year (if he's still on the team) to come back having mastered the Saunders system, like he did Gibbs' last year. Truly, learning the new offense (for an "old dog" like Brunell) was a challenge. Camp could be interesting.

Well for me, Gibbs is past his prime and the game has passed him by. Gibbs stinks as a GM and he should be stripped of that duty. My biggest question is what happens if this QB move works and we win out. I wonder how Gibbs will spin this then. What Gibbs should have also done in his press conference was to also terminate Boobnell's contract or place his behind on IR. I am so glad that the sorry excuse for a QB has thrown his last pass as a Redskin!! Finally we have someone athletic to drive this car!! AMEN AMEN AMEN!!

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Mursilis wrote:1) The Brunell Blindspot (now being corrected). Why was he so loyal to that guy? It was hard to fathom.

In fairness to "2x4", I wouldn't put it past him to come back next year (if he's still on the team) to come back having mastered the Saunders system, like he did Gibbs' last year. Truly, learning the new offense (for an "old dog" like Brunell) was a challenge. Camp could be interesting.

If there was actually a QB battle at Training Camp '07, it would mean either

1) JC was flat-awful the rest of the games this year, or suffered a major injury.

2) Gibbs has completely lost his mind.

I wish for neither event.

The team traded away all of their draft picks in the 80's. It's nothing new. Gibbs prefers vets over rooks. It's just a little different in today's NFL, that's all.

The only coach I wanted out of here in the past few years was Spurrier. Other than that I have wanted to give the new hires a few years to get everything done. Instead of having a revolving door policy. I think that now that the "Brunell Blindspot" is gone we can get back to playing true Redskins football, and abandon the 5 and dime routine.

In fairness to "2x4", I wouldn't put it past him to come back next year (if he's still on the team) to come back having mastered the Saunders system, like he did Gibbs' last year. Truly, learning the new offense (for an "old dog" like Brunell) was a challenge. Camp could be interesting.

Oh man. You never quit, do you??? Brunell SUCKS. He is done. Finished. No way he starts another game as a Redskin unless Campbell gets injured. I know it's going to be tough for you to not be able to "predict" anymore 300 yard, 3 td games for Brunell, but somehow you'll have to manage.

Back to the question at hand.....no way should Gibbs be fired. He isn't some first time coach who is struggling in his first head coaching job. He has a ton of experience and a proven track record of success. He deserves the 5 years in his contract. I do, however, think that a real GM should be hired. I think that Gibbs may be a little in over his head in terms of making all the personnel decisions. A GM would allow Gibbs to focus on what he truely does best, coaching.

OK, let's assume we had appointed some other coach, perhaps by the name of Alf Smith.

After years of futility, one playoff appearance since the dawn of time (or at least since the early 90's), the debacle of the Spurrier years, and constant disappointment, the new coach oversaw a difficult first year, with the playoffs seemingly as far away as ever.

In his second year, this same coach takes the Redskins to the playoffs. Single season receiving and rushing records are set by two big name acquisitions made by the coach. The quarterback has one of his best ever years in the league, the team wins five on the trot to reach the playoffs, and then wins a playoff game. It seems realistic to speculate about a playoff run next year, maybe an appearance in the conference title game at least.

In year three, the team regresses. The star running back gets banged up early, and is clearly not 100%. The defence springs a leak (not that the head coach tends to get involved on the defensive side of the ball, preferring to leave matters to his stellar defensive coach). The quarterback seems unable to succeed in a revamped offensive system.

A disappointing time. But a time to call for the coach's head? I think not. I don't care whether he's called Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Alf Smith or even Steve Spurrier: that is not the record of a coach who should be fired, even before you factor in the kind of organisational underachievement that has been prevalent in Washington for years.

So, this is not so much a defence of Joe Gibbs, as it is a defence of any coach who has to suffer the impatience of football fans, keen for the quick turnaround, leading to a decade of unparalelled glory.

I am not going to beat around the bush. Yes..... Anybody else would have been gone by now, period. Because he is HOF Coach Gibbs, he still has his job and get's a free pass.

It's what he has done in the past that has allowed him to keep his job. Look at Bobby Bowden at Florida State. They stink now and the AD and the President are scared to fire the Legendary Bobby Bowden. Probably out of fear of the reprocussions on recruiting that he may impose.

To put a product out on the field like what we are seeing with amount of money that has been spent would have either gotten anybody else fired or major changes in the lineup like at QB or whatever. But this is our "Savior" that bought us three rings, so he will get the benefit of the doubt. Joe Gibbs was great back then but now the league and it's players have changed so much that I don't think that he has figured it out.

SkinzCanes wrote:

In fairness to "2x4", I wouldn't put it past him to come back next year (if he's still on the team) to come back having mastered the Saunders system, like he did Gibbs' last year. Truly, learning the new offense (for an "old dog" like Brunell) was a challenge. Camp could be interesting.

Oh man. You never quit, do you??? Brunell SUCKS. He is done. Finished. No way he starts another game as a Redskin unless Campbell gets injured. I know it's going to be tough for you to not be able to "predict" anymore 300 yard, 3 td games for Brunell, but somehow you'll have to manage.

Well, aren't injuries part of the game? Unless JC is made of steel, while Brunell remains the backup, he'll always be one play away from getting back under center.

That being said, to Jason I say, "Break a leg, son. You've earned it."

UK Skins Fan wrote:OK, let's assume we had appointed some other coach, perhaps by the name of Alf Smith.

After years of futility, one playoff appearance since the dawn of time (or at least since the early 90's), the debacle of the Spurrier years, and constant disappointment, the new coach oversaw a difficult first year, with the playoffs seemingly as far away as ever.

In his second year, this same coach takes the Redskins to the playoffs. Single season receiving and rushing records are set by two big name acquisitions made by the coach. The quarterback has one of his best ever years in the league, the team wins five on the trot to reach the playoffs, and then wins a playoff game. It seems realistic to speculate about a playoff run next year, maybe an appearance in the conference title game at least.

In year three, the team regresses. The star running back gets banged up early, and is clearly not 100%. The defence springs a leak (not that the head coach tends to get involved on the defensive side of the ball, preferring to leave matters to his stellar defensive coach). The quarterback seems unable to succeed in a revamped offensive system.

A disappointing time. But a time to call for the coach's head? I think not. I don't care whether he's called Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Alf Smith or even Steve Spurrier: that is not the record of a coach who should be fired, even before you factor in the kind of organisational underachievement that has been prevalent in Washington for years.

I agree, not to mentoion that I doubt that they are calling for Cower's head after the season that the Steelers have had. Sometimes the football Gods conspire against certain teams, take the Dolphins for example, I guess it was just our year in the __it.

JansenFan wrote:I keep my faith in Joe Gibbs because the players are all keeping their faith in Joe Gibbs. I also have seen throughout the course of my life that Joe Gibbs is a model leader of men. He has been through tough times before and has always pulled through. While his past coaching experience may not count for anything as far as success in this go around, it does buy him the benefit of the doubt to me and many others who lived through the first Gibbs tenure.

What possible evidence have you seen that the players are keeping their faith in Joe Gibbs? They're playing hang dog, like one of the most "no hope" teams I've ever seen.

I really think that Gibbs provides the best chance for success here. I do not see that there is anyone better for this team right now and I firmly believe that he will find a way to make these guys play well enough together to be successful.

If his staying causes some wimps around here to leave, so much the better!

It's tough to say if I would be calling for his head or not... I mean, three pretty mediocre seasons, the only bright spots in which were the defenses he has nothing to do with... perhaps.

He's certainly not the "future" of Washington.

If this was Marty Morningwig or Wayne Fontes, or someone, yeah people would call for his head...but guess what, they would be wrong.

We need to learn how to stick with it, rather than the slash and burn way of doing things....we've let all these pieces go over the years:

Players:

-Rich Gannon
-Trent Green
-Brad Johnson
-David Akers
-Antonio Pierce
-Fred Smoot
-Ryan Clark

Coaches:

-Marvin Lewis
-Marty Schottenheimer


All of these people are having more success thatn we are right now. Maybe taking care of your own and building is the right way to do things..

If it was anyone but Gibbs, I think they would be gone at the end of this season if not already. Gibbs has earned extra time because of his past record.

As for his benching Brunell and putting in Campbell, remember that he did the same thing with Ramsey and yanked Ramsey in the first game of the next year, also keeping in mind that Ramsey got clotheslined with what should have been an illegal hit.

I am not saying that changing quarterbacks will instantaneously revitalize the team either. There are many, many more problems than Brunell. Whether you like him or hate him, Brunell did his best with what capabilities he still possesses.

To even question Gibbs is to have no perspective on history.

Gibbs wins in life and sports. It's fact not conjecture.

The Redskins have been sub .500 for over a decade - without Gibbs. How fast you forget. The team culture of losing is firmly entrenched and Gibbs is finding out just how difficult it is to turn the bad news bears into the new york yankees.

So Gibbs is a winner and the Skins as a franchise is a loser in the win loss column (not financially for Danny, which is part of the problem).

Gibbs biggest challenge coming in wasn't x's and o's, it was changing the culture of failure. We all thought he was headed in the right direction by the end of last year. And the offseason moves - hiring Saunders, retaining Williams - were universally lauded. Unfortunately, the culture of failure rose up and bit 'em.

He has said firmly that he's here to fix this, and 'this' is the culture of losing. Let the man do his job. He'll get it right (I hope).

And who are you going to hire anyway? Spurrier? Turner? Robiski? Schottenheimer?

Mursilis wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Mursilis wrote:1) The Brunell Blindspot (now being corrected). Why was he so loyal to that guy? It was hard to fathom.

In fairness to "2x4", I wouldn't put it past him to come back next year (if he's still on the team) to come back having mastered the Saunders system, like he did Gibbs' last year. Truly, learning the new offense (for an "old dog" like Brunell) was a challenge. Camp could be interesting.

If there was actually a QB battle at Training Camp '07, it would mean either

1) JC was flat-awful the rest of the games this year, or suffered a major injury.

2) Gibbs has completely lost his mind.

I wish for neither event.

I also think there may be a qb battle in camp, although I don't wish for it. Gibbs said in his Monday press conference "who knows, maybe Mark will sit back and get a breath of fresh air and come back strong", those were his words, I kid you not. Two years ago he said the same thing just after Ramsey got the nod, it went something like this "you haven't seen the last of Mark"......and I don't think we did this time either.

Q:

if the head coach wasn't joe gibbs and we had the same record,wouldn't we all be calling for his head ???

A: Bcause the coach is Joe Gibbs. The answer is in the question. Joe Gibbs is the finest coach living, and one of the three or four best of all time.

If you have the best coach, why would you consider replacing him?