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2nd Brett Favre?(young QB traded to go on to be an elite QB)
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:28 am
by oafusp
Since Ramsey came to the Skins I have always seen his play as a mirror image of a young Brett Favre.
Super tough, smart, and a Howitzer arm
Plus Ramsey is also from Louisiana.
Now, if the Skins do trade Ramsey or Ramsey demands a trade it will add one more thing to the Brett Favre comparrison.
Favre was drafted by the Atlanta Falcons, and after a year the Falcons traded him to Green Bay.
Think about that trade.
Which team made a horrible mistake? Atanta
Why? Cause they traded a Super tough, smart, Howitzer arm quarterback that is arguably the best QB in NFL history and is even respected by fans of other teams.
I truly think Ramsey will follow Brett Favre's path, as long as the idiot suits at Redskin Park stop EEFFFINGGG him.
Otherwise, the Skins could end up like the Falcons did after they traded Favre...oh yes, they could.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:51 am
by Steve Spurrier III
No, no, no. I like Ramsey, but he's not Brett Favre.
There are similarities, but Ramsey is far from being Brett Favre. Ramsey can't make the same plays with his feet that an old Favre, let alone a young Favre, can make.
Also, I'm not sure that Ramsey has the same leadership qualities.
I know one thing for sure, Ramsey couldn't have pulled off that Mastercard commercial...
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:37 pm
by oafusp
Simpletons annoy me....
Favre is Favre, nobody else will BE Favre.
I am talking about the similar circumstances...
Louisiana, Strong Arm, Plays Hurt, (trade talks at beginning of promising career)....hell, even their FIST PUMPING after a touch down is similar!
I could envision Ramsey running across the field with confetti falling while Gibbs is hoisted onto the shoulders of Jansen and Samuels in a Super Bowl in the near future.
That's all I am trying to say.
Don't trade him, cause he will go on to do great things in his career, like Favre did after he was traded.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:50 pm
by Wysocki
Is Patrick holding a clipboard as he runs across the field?
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:52 pm
by oafusp
Note to self, "Wysocki jinxed Ramsey on 13-FEB-2004, 11:50 AM"
I will remember this when things go sour buddy.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:00 pm
by DEHog
You guys are killing me
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:00 pm
by Wysocki
OK I take it back; but at least WE win in your fantasy, right?
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:13 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
"Louisiana, Strong Arm, Plays Hurt"
Okay he's from Louisiana. So what? That's like saying I'm like Lawerence Taylor because I'm from Virginia.
As far as strong arm and plays hurt, those are true, but a lot of people fit that mold. Is it fair to call Patrick Ramsey the next Steve McNair?
I see your point, but saying, "I have always seen his play as a mirror image of a young Brett Favre" is a little weak...
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:22 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
Hell no, Ramsey can't feel pressure if we put him inside of a pressure cooker.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:55 pm
by hailskins666
Which team made a horrible mistake? Atanta
Why? Cause they traded a Super tough, smart, Howitzer arm quarterback that is arguably the best QB in NFL history and is even respected by fans of other teams.
on a light note.... if we trade ramsey, and the cycle repeats itself, does that mean we get the next mike vick a few years down the road? if so, i may have to weigh in on trading ramsey
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:58 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
"does that mean we get the next mike vick a few years down the road?"
Marcus Vick anyone?
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:06 pm
by dallasisdead2004
Steve Spurrier III wrote:No, no, no. I like Ramsey, but he's not Brett Favre.
There are similarities, but Ramsey is far from being Brett Favre. Ramsey can't make the same plays with his feet that an old Favre, let alone a young Favre, can make.
Also, I'm not sure that Ramsey has the same leadership qualities.
Of course, no one can be Brett.
However, are you suggesting that Favre is a mobile quarterback? I'd be interested to see a comparison between their rushing stats. (actually, strike that if you're referring to his ability to throw off his back leg...but even then, some REALLY bad INTs have been thrown...)
Also, (I don't know...) did anyone suggest that Brett was a born leader after his second season...
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:30 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
"However, are you suggesting that Favre is a mobile quarterback? I'd be interested to see a comparison between their rushing stats."
Ramsey:
2002: 13 attempts, -1 yards, 1 touchdown
2003: 15 attempts, 62 yards, 1 touchdown
Favre:
1991: 0 attempts, 0 yards, 0 touchdowns
1992: 47 attempts, 198 yards, 1 touchdown
1993: 58 attempts, 216 yards, 1 touchdown
1994: 42 attempts, 202 yards, 2 touchdowns
1995: 39 attempts, 181 yards, 3 touchdowns
1996: 49 attempts, 136 yards, 2 touchdowns
1997: 58 attempts, 187 yards, 1 touchdown
1998: 40 attempts, 133 yards, 1 touchdown
1999: 28 attempts, 142 yards, 0 touchdown
2000: 27 attempts, 109 yards, 0 touchdown
2001: 38 attempts, 56 yards, 1 touchdown
2002: 25 attempts, 73 yards, 0 touchdown
2003: 18 attempts, 15 yards, 0 touchdown
So yes, I am suggesting Favre is (was, rather) a mobile a quarterback.
SIDE NOTE (just kind of interesting)
Favre's QB Rating, 1992: 85.3
Ramsey's QB Rating, 2003: 75.8
"Also, (I don't know...) did anyone suggest that Brett was a born leader after his second season..."
Is he a born leader now? If so, then he would have to be a born leader after his secoond season. Because, you know, the whole definition of "born leader"...
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:31 pm
by oafusp
hailskins666 wrote:on a light note.... if we trade ramsey, and the cycle repeats itself, does that mean we get the next mike vick a few years down the road? if so, i may have to weigh in on trading ramsey
uh, after the falcons traded Favre they hAd to wait another 10 years before they were good...I have already waited that long with te Skins and I cannot wait another decade...Mike Vick or any QB like that is not worth 10 years of sorrow.
We are already 2 years into the rebuilding process (Ramsey, Coles, Gardner, LaVar, Champ), my hope is that we don't throw the rebuilding off coarse and delay even longer.
Can we be the Panthers of 2004...sure.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:33 pm
by daddywatson
Fellow fans...... Patrick is ALOT like Farve. He can be mobile and roll out of that pocket... if he's got two good feet to run on. Look back to game one last year against the Jets. He was prepared to throw, if the rceivers were open. But they weren't, so he ran with it and picked up yardage. I'm not saying Ramsey is the "most" mobile of quarterbacks, god no!!!! But he can if he has to. But, it takes two good feet. His leadership is there. After the kind of pounding he took last year, his team mates have already said he's got their respect. Farve's been around a long time. Patches has the equivalent of one season. I like what I see in this kid and he's inexpensive at the moment. So bring in Brunell or any other vet. Let the competition begin!!!!!!!
GOD I'M EXCITED ABOUT THE COMING SEASON!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:38 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
If there is any doubt that Ramsey is slow, just look at the difference in sack numbers between him and Hasselbeck. I know they shortened a lot of things up for Tim, but he is much quicker than Ramsey.
It's not that bad of a thing. Manning, Marino, even Tom Brady are slow. If you have good footwork, then you will be fine as a quarterback...
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:42 pm
by oafusp
Don't forget (hold on, let me crank up my violin), Ramsey had to start his career under Spurrier's system. Would have been great to start his college career, but not the NFL.
Could you imagine if Ramsey could have been learning under a "normal" NFL offense over the last 2 years? He would be ready to roll right now.
It will be real interesting to see how quickly he adapts to Gibbs system and hopefully it will be a perfect system for Ramsey's style.
PS - Ramsey never had a chance to RUN, cause Spurrier was having him do 7 step drops with Trung Canidate trying to pick up the blitz.
Booooyaaa
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:50 pm
by daddywatson
oafusp wrote:Don't forget (hold on, let me crank up my violin), Ramsey had to start his career under Spurrier's system. Would have been great to start his college career, but not the NFL.
Could you imagine if Ramsey could have been learning under a "normal" NFL offense over the last 2 years? He would be ready to roll right now.
It will be real interesting to see how quickly he adapts to Gibbs system and hopefully it will be a perfect system for Ramsey's style.
PS - Ramsey never had a chance to RUN, cause Spurrier was having him do 7 step drops with Trung Canidate trying to pick up the blitz.
That is a very good point O. One that I was going to add into my last post(you beat me to it buddy). But that is one that couldn't and can't be ignored. Very well put.
Booooyaaa
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:17 pm
by FootLongHog
my god, are you people really comparing the mobility of a young brett favre to Ramsey, much less their actual careers?
Ridiculous! I assume those of you who said that are too young to have watched him play, bc no one in their right mind would make that comparison. it's not just about stats, though they work as proof, it's also about avoiding rushers in the pocket, a skill in which ramsey is only adequate at best.
compare him to rypien even fouts if you want to, but favre was a gun-slinging scrambling quarterback when he was in college and when he won a SB. mobile and ramsey are words not often used in the same sentence.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:19 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
"Booooyaaa"...
Um, no one is saying Ramsey is bad, I think he's a good qaurterback and I think he will become a great one. I just pointed out some differences between him and his "mirror image" Brett Favre.
"Ramsey never had a chance to RUN, cause Spurrier was having him do 7 step drops with Trung Canidate trying to pick up the blitz."
So, if we ran a system that focused on short, quick passes, that would give him a chance to show he could run? If anything, Spurrier's brilliant pass protection schemes were a great oppurtunity to prove that he could escape pressure.
I can't believe people won't accept that he is slow. He is. That's okay. With the protection he should be getting this season, he won't have to be.
...gesundheit
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:34 pm
by dallasisdead2004
Steve Spurrier III wrote:Ramsey:
2002: 13 attempts, -1 yards, 1 touchdown
2003: 15 attempts, 62 yards, 1 touchdown
Favre:
1991: 0 attempts, 0 yards, 0 touchdowns
1992: 47 attempts, 198 yards, 1 touchdown
1993: 58 attempts, 216 yards, 1 touchdown
1994: 42 attempts, 202 yards, 2 touchdowns
1995: 39 attempts, 181 yards, 3 touchdowns
1996: 49 attempts, 136 yards, 2 touchdowns
1997: 58 attempts, 187 yards, 1 touchdown
1998: 40 attempts, 133 yards, 1 touchdown
1999: 28 attempts, 142 yards, 0 touchdown
2000: 27 attempts, 109 yards, 0 touchdown
2001: 38 attempts, 56 yards, 1 touchdown
2002: 25 attempts, 73 yards, 0 touchdown
2003: 18 attempts, 15 yards, 0 touchdown
So yes, I am suggesting Favre is (was, rather) a mobile a quarterback.
Avg. Rush Yds
Ramsey:
2003: 15 Attempts, 62 yds. = 4.13 yds per attempt
Farve:
1992: 47 attempts, 198 yards = 4.21
1993: 58 attempts, 216 yards = 3.72
1994: 42 attempts, 202 yards = 4.81
1995: 39 attempts, 181 yards = 4.64
1996: 49 attempts, 136 yards = 2.77
1997: 58 attempts, 187 yards = 3.22
1998: 40 attempts, 133 yards = 3.32
...
Again, why can't Ramsey be compared to Favre in rushing stats? They're practically the same!
Re: 2nd Brett Favre?
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:43 pm
by oafusp
Let me make this very clear. Some here need to up their Ridalin dosage. Pay attention, here is the original post.
oafusp wrote:Since Ramsey came to the Skins I have always seen his play as a mirror image of a young Brett Favre.
Super tough, smart, and a Howitzer arm
Plus Ramsey is also from Louisiana.
Now, if the Skins do trade Ramsey or Ramsey demands a trade it will add one more thing to the Brett Favre comparrison.
Favre was drafted by the Atlanta Falcons, and after a year the Falcons traded him to Green Bay.
Think about that trade.
Which team made a horrible mistake? Atanta
Why? Cause they traded a Super tough, smart, Howitzer arm quarterback that is arguably the best QB in NFL history and is even respected by fans of other teams.
I truly think Ramsey will follow Brett Favre's path, as long as the idiot suits at Redskin Park stop EEFFFINGGG him.
Otherwise, the Skins could end up like the Falcons did after they traded Favre...oh yes, they could.
So in laymans terms (my specialty), I AM NOT SAYING RAMSEY IS BRETT FAVRE DUDE(s). I am only comparing the unique situations they both have. And that Ramsey just wrapped up his 2nd year and to lose him before seeing his peek would be reminicent of Atlanta getting rid of Favre before seeing what he could do. the main point is that Atanta traded a QB before they realized what he was going to do, and I do not want the Redskins to make the same mistake on Ramsey or ANY player. Ramsey has done nothing to warrant a trade, or in my opinion a benching or QB contreversy.
Now, this whole thing is hypothetical. Here is the break down of what I am saying, with a few things added that dont really have any revelence....
1. Possible trade in beginning of career.
2. Strong arm
3. Tough player
4. Smart player
5. Commands respect from teamates
6. Highly regarded around the league
7. For shyts and gigs...from Louisiana
Thats it, as a matter of fact...I should have left all that crap out from the beginging...cause I was just trying to say the Skins should not lose a young player with potential the way the Falcons did.
WOW!! That was easy, i will do it again:
cause I was just trying to say the Skins should not lose a young player with potential the way the Falcons did.
cause I was just trying to say the Skins should not lose a young player with potential the way the Falcons did.
Yeah, that's what I meant!
Sorry for the long road to the short answer.
Excuse me, my Ridalin is calling.
Peace out.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:53 pm
by FootLongHog
alavish dedication to statistics reveals that you must have been too young to see favre, because when you watch them play - they are TOTALLY different. different delivery, different feet, different style of play, and the biggest difference is their feet.
since stats are your only evidence try this - add on ramsey's 13 rushes for -1 yd and what do you get? 2.17 yds per rush - now compare that with favre's career avg. and maybe the stats will show you the light. in the end, they don't matter anyway
this comparison is so silly it's hard for me to acknowledge it. Because he's young, somewhat respected, has a strong arm and might be traded you can compare him to favre. pleeeasssse...i love the man but their are plenty of other qb's who fit that description.
you forget/don't know that favre got very little pt with the falcons, and his trade was much more under the radar than this ramsey thing.
for your add:
1. they don't throw the same way
2. they don't run the same way
3. ramsey is not yet the leader favre is
4. favre NEVER gets hurt, ramsey did not last a season.
5. Favre was much more of an unknown when he was traded.
god, i love ramsey, but B. Favre - who are we kidding?
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:04 pm
by oafusp
cause I was just trying to say the Skins should not lose a young player with potential the way the Falcons did.
some other pudd wacker brought in the rushing, and stats and stuff, etc.
cause I was just trying to say the Skins should not lose a young player with potential the way the Falcons did.
close this topic..i am out
(*I am editing the subject since it is a little misleading..not comparing players rather the fact that a team should not lose a good prospect that COULD end up building a legacy somewhere else)
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:18 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
"cause I was just trying to say the Skins should not lose a young player with potential the way the Falcons did."
Fair enough...