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Dont expect any change...
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:19 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Gibbs Discusses Team's Structure
Joe Gibbs walked into his weekly press conference on Monday determined to address the media on recent criticism of the Redskins' front office and off-season strategy.
Gibbs, who is head coach and team president, discussed the Redskins' organizational structure and emphasized that he accepts all responsibility "when things don't go well" for the team.
The Redskins started the regular season with a disappointing 2-5 record before defeating the Dallas Cowboys 22-19 at FedExField on Sunday. The win provided an emotional lift and it is hoped that it provides a springboard to a successful second-half of the season.
In the first half, the Redskins have struggled with consistency. Through eight games, the team is ranked 15th overall on offense and 30th overall on defense.
Those struggles have led to media scrutiny of the Redskins' front office and player acquisition process.
"There are a lot of things said about whether this is the right [organizational structure] and if we should have a GM," Gibbs said. "From the very first time I talked to [Redskins owner] Dan [Snyder] about coming on board here, and the way we should be structured, I really felt like this is the right way.
"I have [vice president of football operations] Vinny Cerrato working with me on all the personnel issues. All of the coaches are heavily involved. We have a tremendous scouting group that has been reorganized. We have Dan's support. I think it is the right way for us to be structured."
Gibbs then defended the team's approach to free agency.
Since Gibbs returned to Washington in January 2004, the Redskins have been among the most active teams in free agency and trades, acquiring such starters as Mark Brunell, Clinton Portis, Santana Moss, Brandon Lloyd, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, Phillip Daniels, Andre Carter and Shawn Springs.
Certainly, there have been misfires over the years. Overall, though, Gibbs likes what the team has accomplished in free agency and how the team uses the salary cap.
"I was looking over our list and as I have said several times to our fans, if you look down that list of free agents, we have some great football players," Gibbs said. "We certainly believe in it."
Regarding the team's approach to the draft, Gibbs said: "We believe in the draft. At different times we have been aggressive and we have also made trades. Those times we are all in here. We don't do anything separate. We talk it all over. Vinny has been a real support there. We take it all and try to make the best decision when it comes to trades or free agency.
"It is my responsibility. That is something that I have to step up to the plate for when we make those trades. I am proud with what we have done in free agency and trades. If you look down a list of our trades, I am certainly proud of it."
Gibbs emphasized that, as head coach and team president, he accepts full responsibility for the team's record.
"I wanted to start off the day by saying to everybody, our fans in particular and everyone that pulls for the Redskins, that when things don't go well around here, it should be laid at my feet," he said. "As I have said before, there are no excuses for me. Dan has been nothing but supportive. Many times I feel bad for him through this process because when we get into the season it is hard for him to do anything but support us.
"I feel a responsibility to our fans when things don't go well because the fans are doing every single thing that they can. I wanted to get across my point that when things don't go well here with the Redskins that it is my responsibility. I think that is where the criticism should be and rest with me."
1. Prepare for another rush of over hyped free agents.
2. Prepare for a bum trade giving up this year and next years 1st round draft pick,
3. Prepare to lose a real "core" Redskin to the market just to be replaced by #1.
4. More super smart players are on the way.
I wouldn't be shocked one bit if we got Byron Leftwich next year.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:30 am
by nuskins
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:45 am
by Chris Luva Luva
AA, TJ and Fauria weren't mentioned in the article.
Daniels has been decent at best....he had a strong run in the playoffs but outside of that he's been mediocre.
Then you have Warrick Holdman who has been off and on.
Casey was a good pick up.
Portis - We gave up too much for him. Should have been a straight up trade.
Rocky - We traded 20 picks to move up for him.
JC - We traded 25 picks to move up for him.
Springs - A good pick up.
Santana Moss - Good signing
Brandon Lloyd - Good signing despite MB04
Marcus Washington - Good
Cornelius Griffin - Good depsite being injured often
Andre Carter - Verdict is still out
We have a lot of good, we have a lot of bad. Aside from the acquisitions its what we give up (draft picks) that piss me off. We ran into depth issues because of it.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:51 am
by Fios
We gave up "way too much" for the back who hols the franchise single-season rushing record and was instrumental in the team's first playoff win in forever? We gave up 45 picks? We "signed" Moss?
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:54 am
by nuskins
Chris Luva Luva wrote:[
Then you have Warrick Holdman who has been off and on.
We have a lot of good, we have a lot of bad. Aside from the acquisitions its what we give up (draft picks) that piss me off. We ran into depth issues because of it.
Agree on all points you mention, it is the "buy now and ignore the future consequences" approach that is unacceptable to me.
One thing I would like to point out is that Warrick Holdman has been "off" way more than he has been "on".......quite possibly the worst STARTING WLB in the game. We need to get Rocky in there, NOW!
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:56 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Fios wrote:We gave up "way too much" for the back who hols the franchise single-season rushing record and was instrumental in the team's first playoff win in forever? We gave up 45 picks? We "signed" Moss?
I love CP but that should have been a straight up trade. CP for Bailey.
Imagine if we hadnt given up the 2nd pick and we got another player of CP's pedigree. Or
eys talent? We'd have CHEAP, young talent.
Im not upset with CP, he's a beast but we consistently IMO give up too much at the time of the signing. If we gave up 20 picks for CP people we defend it.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:06 am
by 1niksder
Chris Luva Luva wrote:AA, TJ and Fauria weren't mentioned in the article.
Daniels has been decent at best....he had a strong run in the playoffs but outside of that he's been mediocre.
Then you have Warrick Holdman who has been off and on.
Casey was a good pick up.
Portis - We gave up too much for him. Should have been a straight up trade.
Rocky - We traded 20 picks to move up for him.
JC - We traded 25 picks to move up for him.
Springs - A good pick up.
Santana Moss - Good signing
Brandon Lloyd - Good signing despite MB04
Marcus Washington - Good
Cornelius Griffin - Good depsite being injured often
Andre Carter - Verdict is still out
We have a lot of good, we have a lot of bad. Aside from the acquisitions its what we give up (draft picks) that piss me off. We ran into depth issues because of it.
You point 3 players you don't agree with the draft picks, but the Portis deal has been beat in the ground and if you can't understand that the Denver didn't have to deal with Washington after CB said he was gone regardless, how would you feel if we had that pick to use but we wouldn't have Portis or Bailey. TJ Duckett would be everyones favorite because Tatum Bell could have been that pick.
The pick for Brunell was kind of the same situation without the pick he would have hit free agency and his price (that most say was too much) would have went up. sometimes I miss that pick.
Holdman is just holding down the fort until McIntosh is ready, how many Holdmans would be out there if we had drafted all the rookies you say we could have had?
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:29 am
by Chris Luva Luva
1niksder wrote:Holdman is just holding down the fort until McIntosh is ready, how many Holdmans would be out there if we had drafted all the rookies you say we could have had?
How many Golstons would be out there?
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:42 am
by 1fan4ramsey
[quote="1niksder"][quote="Chris Luva Luva"]
The pick for Brunell was kind of the same situation without the pick he would have hit free agency and his price (that most say was too much) would have went up.
You're kidding, right. Had he hit the free agent market we would have been the only one interested. He was done 4 years ago, everybody knew it but Gibbs.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:46 am
by 1niksder
1fan4ramsey wrote:1niksder wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:The pick for Brunell was kind of the same situation without the pick he would have hit free agency and his price (that most say was too much) would have went up.
You're kidding, right. Had he hit the free agent market we would have been the only one interested. He was done 4 years ago, everybody knew it but Gibbs.
Stop running off at the keyboard and do some research go back and look at how many teams needed a vet QB back then
And learn to use the quote feature
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:01 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
1niksder wrote:1fan4ramsey wrote:1niksder wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:The pick for Brunell was kind of the same situation without the pick he would have hit free agency and his price (that most say was too much) would have went up.
You're kidding, right. Had he hit the free agent market we would have been the only one interested. He was done 4 years ago, everybody knew it but Gibbs.
Stop running off at the keyboard and do some research go back and look at how many teams needed a vet QB back then
And learn to use the quote feature
I dont doubt someone else would have gotten MB. I do doubt that he'd still be starting for that team.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:21 pm
by SkinsJock
nuskins wrote:That's great that Joe G wants to accept all responsibility but it still does not make it right.
I think the vast majority here question the personel decisions, but just b/c Joe G says that it's his responsiblity we are suppose to dutifully step in line behind him and let his poor personel decisons continue to drive this team into the ground? (well, some here might)
The article sounds as if Joe G believes no mistakes were made......
It gets a little tiring - I support Gibbs but I do not think that others like me "dutifully step in line"
I am as disapointed as a lot of others in how some of the players have worked out but I still "support" Gibbs.
I have no problem with others here voicing their concerns about how Gibbs has run this team but at the same time some of us think that this great coach has earned a little more respect than advocating (as some did both last year and this) that he should basically stop coaching and running our team. That is surely a pretty asinine and low life thing to say. That indicates to me that that person(s) is not a fan of this team and knows little to nothing of Redskins history.
I really disagree with you in that Gibbs is intimating in this article that he does not think that mistakes were made - there seems to be a lot of selective interpretation going around - Gibbs has never made out that he is perfect like a lot of fans here
I'm proud of my team and of the organization - I think we are a lot better because we have Gibbs back - I think he has made a lot of mistakes but I'm glad he made them and not some others who almost certainly would have us in a lot worse shape than we are. I am glad that Gibbs wants players who want to play for the Redskins. I do not miss players like Pierce who is a very good player but who chose to go elsewhere. IMO Gibbs never let anyone go anywhere that did not want to go or that he wanted to keep.
I think our future is better because of what Gibbs has done - including all the moves he has made that still seem to be mistakes. I do not think of that as "dutifully following in line" I think that is because I respect this great coach.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:46 pm
by DieselFan
The one thing we all forget w/the Champ trade is that it was no guarantee that he wanted to sign w/the Redskins after the year was up. In his comments before the trade, you could tell he was very non-committal to the team and after the trade his comments only confirm that he would not have signed. I just don't think he was happy as a Redskin.
So try to remember that.
And, oh yeah, Adam Archuletta straight up sucks.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:47 pm
by nuskins
SkinsJock wrote:. I am glad that Gibbs wants players who want to play for the Redskins. I do not miss players like Pierce who is a very good player but who chose to go elsewhere. IMO Gibbs never let anyone go anywhere that did not want to go or that he wanted to keep.
I think our future is better because of what Gibbs has done - including all the moves he has made that still seem to be mistakes. I do not think of that as "dutifully following in line" I think that is because I respect this great coach.
First, the above statement is nowhere near accurate. Pierce wanted to stay here and left b/c we lowballed him. Ryan Clark is said to have taken any reasonable measure offered to stay here, he loved it here, but was lowballed by this organization. These guys were "Redskin" guys if there ever were any in this second tenure of Gibbs but they were let go b/c of some very, very poor personel decison making. What happened, we used more money going out to the free agent market and obtain replacements that are no where near the quality of either player let go.
AA is the highest paid safety in the NFL for christsakes!
There just seems to be a bit of that "fall in line & shut your mouth" type of thinking going on here in terms of Gibbs absolute authority on all things football by some. I certainly do know some Redskins history as I have been living in this area and a diehard fan of the Redskins for my entire life. So I got to witness the first go around with Gibbs and have seen the greats play and coach this team.
HOWEVER.....this is a new owner and a new franchise from when Joe G was here the first go around....Jack Kent Cook is gone....the rules have changed and this is pretty apparent. In no way does what Joe Gibbs accomplished in his first tenure here give him a free pass on every desision he makes with this team.
I was a Redskins fan before Gibbs coached here the first time and I will be here buying season tickets after he leaves.......the Redskins belong to the Fans and being one I think I have the right to express my opinions on certain subjects as I see fit. 
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:07 pm
by Fios
1) Pierce being "lowballed" is not totally accurate, Pierce wanted to be the best-pad LB on the team, the team disagreed and made him a reasonable offer, he chose not to accept it and took the additional money the Giants offered.
2) No one has ever or will ever challenge your ability to offer an opinion, even if you do insist on using bold font
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:32 pm
by SkinsJock
nuskins wrote:SkinsJock wrote:. I am glad that Gibbs wants players who want to play for the Redskins. I do not miss players like Pierce who is a very good player but who chose to go elsewhere. IMO Gibbs never let anyone go anywhere that did not want to go or that he wanted to keep.
I think our future is better because of what Gibbs has done - including all the moves he has made that still seem to be mistakes. I do not think of that as "dutifully following in line" I think that is because I respect this great coach.
First, the above statement is nowhere near accurate.
Why? Because that is my opinion, it's "nowhere near accurate"? That is your opinion
I wanted to point out that your opinion was that Gibbs does not think he has made any mistakes
..The article sounds as if Joe G believes no mistakes were made......
I just do not think the article sounded like that -
..Pierce wanted to stay here and left b/c we lowballed him. Ryan Clark is said to have taken any reasonable measure offered to stay here, he loved it here, but was lowballed by this organization.
That is an interpretation of what happened and IMO is out of context with the full situation - IF Pierce had wanted to stay he could have - he chose to leave - that is all I'm saying - it has nothing to do with what Pierce thought about the money - he could have stayed, IF he had wanted to - I'm sure there are a lot of our fans that would agree that he made the right choice BUT he made the choice
There just seems to be a bit of that "fall in line & shut your mouth" type of thinking going on here in terms of Gibbs absolute authority on all things football by some. I certainly do know some Redskins history as I have been living in this area and a diehard fan of the Redskins for my entire life. So I got to witness the first go around with Gibbs and have seen the greats play and coach this team.
HOWEVER.....this is a new owner and a new franchise from when Joe G was here the first go around....Jack Kent Cook is gone....the rules have changed and this is pretty apparent. In no way does what Joe Gibbs accomplished in his first tenure here give him a free pass on every desision he makes with this team.
I'm a happy camper with both Snyder as the owner and Gibbs as the coach - I think both are an improvement on who they replaced - I also think we will be better off with both
I started watching with Allen as the coach and cannot remember anyone (other than Gibbs) that I would call "great" as you mentioned, but we all have different opinions on who is good or bad as an owner or a coach
.. I was a Redskins fan before Gibbs coached here the first time and I will be here buying season tickets after he leaves.......the Redskins belong to the Fans and being one I think I have the right to express my opinions on certain subjects as I see fit.
duh - and there was no need to hi-lite this!! - we all are entitled to our opinions here at THN including dcd and crazyhorse
some are fans of this team and some constantly demonstrate that they are not, IMHO
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:11 pm
by skinsfan#33
Fios wrote:We gave up "way too much" for the back who hols the franchise single-season rushing record and was instrumental in the team's first playoff win in forever?
Yes!
You give up an elite corner (not my opion that is how he was rated at the time - the top 2 CB in the NFL) for the third best running back in the AFC West (not the league). At worst it should have been a straight up trade. When i read it orriginally I had to go to three different website befor I believed the the Skins were the team giving the 2nd round pick - it shuold have been the otherway around. Productive running backs are much easier to find than shut down corners. I maid the same arguement before we drafted CB, because a friend of mine thought thatthe Skins would be idiots to pass on Rickey Williams for Champ, because the Skins didn't have a RB. The next season S. Daveis went to the pro bowl and set the franchise record. Think of it this way. Had we had Champ this season and whomever we would have drafted with that high 2nd round pick would this team be better or worse. I say we would be better off. Because there are 21 rb in the NFL this season that have more yards than Portis. TJ Duckett, Betts, and Sellers all have a higher yards per cary average than CP. I'm not saying they are better than him, but RB are a dime a dozen unless they are truely elite: like LT, Alexander, and LJ. Even then the drop off is not worth the price you pay for them, just ask Indy or Arrizona.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:23 pm
by SkinsJock
skinsfan#33 wrote:... I say we would be better off. Because there are 21 rb in the NFL this season that have more yards than Portis. TJ Duckett, Betts, and Sellers all have a higher yards per cary average than CP. I'm not saying they are better than him, but RB are a dime a dozen unless they are truely elite..
I say we are better off and I am glad we have CP because when he is done here I have a feeling he will be compared to the best Redskin RB and team player ever.
I do not think that Bailey would come even close to being that valuable to our team.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:58 pm
by aswas71788
If Gibbs thinks that he has not made mistakes, that is the most un-Gibbs like statement that I can ever remember him making, even during his first tenure.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:02 pm
by JansenFan
Didn't he say yesterday, that he's in charge, so he's responsible for everything that happens, good or bad. If you are looking for him to call out a specific player or coach, Gibbs will never do something like that, so to say he made a mistake in personnel while he is being peppered with questions about Archuleta would be completely un-Gibbs-like.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:21 pm
by ryanw7196
when making comments on the champ-portis trade all need to remember champ did not want to be here and there was no way he would stay no matter what we paid him, he was gone the next year no matter what, its been said before and must be said alot but that should be considered when making statements on that trade.
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:46 pm
by SkinzCanes
when making comments on the champ-portis trade all need to remember champ did not want to be here and there was no way he would stay no matter what we paid him, he was gone the next year no matter what, its been said before and must be said alot but that should be considered when making statements on that trade.
The same could be said for Portis in Denver. He wanted to renegotiate his contract and the Broncos said they weren't going to do it. The fact is that a top corner is much harder to come by than a top running back. With that said I'm glad that we have Portis and I would take him over Champ every time. However, I think that it was a big mistake to give them a second round pick. Just look at what the Broncose did with that pick. They drafted Tatum Bell, who is on pace to rush for over 1,200 yards this sesaon.
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:01 pm
by Skins2daGrave
funny how you all are re-considering the Portis trade now that we are losing...*sigh* fair weather fans
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:14 pm
by 1niksder
SkinzCanes wrote:when making comments on the champ-portis trade all need to remember champ did not want to be here and there was no way he would stay no matter what we paid him, he was gone the next year no matter what, its been said before and must be said alot but that should be considered when making statements on that trade.
The same could be said for Portis in Denver. He wanted to renegotiate his contract and the Broncos said they weren't going to do it. The fact is that a top corner is much harder to come by than a top running back. With that said I'm glad that we have Portis and I would take him over Champ every time. However, I think that it was a big mistake to give them a second round pick. Just look at what the Broncose did with that pick. They drafted Tatum Bell, who is on pace to rush for over 1,200 yards this sesaon.
Without the pick there would have been no trade. No trade means no Portis AND no Champ.
Tatum Bell might not be the best Bell in the Denver backfield.
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:06 pm
by welch
Chris suggested (way, way back at the beginning of this...)
1. Prepare for another rush of over hyped free agents.
2. Prepare for a bum trade giving up this year and next years 1st round draft pick,
3. Prepare to lose a real "core" Redskin to the market just to be replaced by #1.
4. More super smart players are on the way.
I wouldn't be shocked one bit if we got Byron Leftwich next year.
I don't evidence of any of the four predictions from what Gibbs said. If nothing else,
(a) Gibbs has never, since the beginning here, given away his plans. "Sonny, never let them know what you're thinking". The Godfather said it, but Joe Gibbs might have.
(b) As always, Gibbs takes all the blame on himself, just as, after every victory, he gives all praise to his players and coaches. Just as always.
(c) Was it a mistake to "trade" Bailey (plus) for Portis? Or to lose Bailey?
(d) As several have said (thanks, Jock, and others), Pierce is said to have wanted more money than Marcus Washington. Tough decision.
(e) Some player moves work out; some don't. The "don't work out" players quietly disappear from a Gibbs team. A few pull it together on other teams, and the rest sink, but Gibbs never has kept players who couldn't contribute, or fallen apart with grief over his mistakes in having gotten a non-contributor in the first place.
Gibbs wins because he just moves on.