The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

just a quick question about the cap, if Brunell retires at the end of the year (which is likely) what does that do to the cap. Do we get all his money back or do we still have to pay?

He gets his whole 49 million....

I remember the good wrote:He gets his whole 49 million....

Didn't he quietly renegotiate two off-seasons ago?

Anyone know what his new numbers are/were?

1niksder@thehogs.net

According to the "Redskins Info"/ Salary Cap Info section, this site has a capologist who might be able to answer this question....a very interesting question. The above email address is given as the contact for cap questions if you'd like to inquire. If so, please post your findings in this thread....I'm interested in finding out the answer, too.

Thanks!

ClintonHill wrote:

I remember the good wrote:He gets his whole 49 million....

Didn't he quietly renegotiate two off-seasons ago?

Anyone know what his new numbers are/were?

I think he only converted a portion of his money from salary to bonuses so that it could be prorated for cap relief.

skins2357 wrote:just a quick question about the cap, if Brunell retires at the end of the year (which is likely) what does that do to the cap. Do we get all his money back or do we still have to pay?

Why would you say his retirment is "likely"?

I remember the good wrote:He gets his whole 49 million....

Absolute non-sensical answer. I mean really pal... if you haven't got a clue what the real answer is.... isn't there an obligation to add that you 'really don't know'.

Mark Brunell has about $4.3M in bonus money left... that's what it would cost to cut him... that would save us $2.3M in cap in 2007 as he's slated to count $6.6M with his pro-rated bonus ($1.433M) and the almost 5,000,000 annual salary. So if we cut him in the offseason OR he retired, we will pay $4.3M to pay it out but it will still be $2.3 less than if we actually have him return.

If the Redskins cut him AFTER June 1st 2007, then his cap hit next year would only be the $1.433M in pro-rated money... so that would be a savings of $5.2M on the 2007 cap hit but we would have dead cap of $2.866M for 2008.

There is a methodology to get even some of the bonus money back a la Barry Sanders, but it isn't an automatic and Brunell's case really doesn't apply...

so what Im getting from your knowledge of the cap is that it would cost us the same if he retires or we cut him? I would think that if he retires we should'nt have to pay his remaining salary ( but that is just what I think, Im not implying that I have any knowledge of the cap). I simply think that he will retire at the end of the season because of age and ability. If he gets benched further down the road (which is likely IMO) for the kid OR Collins, I cant imagine a late 30's QB would return to ride the pine. But hey, weirder things have happened.

Either way he should be paid in hot dogs and hamburgers.

skins2357 wrote:so what Im getting from your knowledge of the cap is that it would cost us the same if he retires or we cut him? I would think that if he retires we should'nt have to pay his remaining salary ( but that is just what I think, Im not implying that I have any knowledge of the cap). I simply think that he will retire at the end of the season because of age and ability. If he gets benched further down the road (which is likely IMO) for the kid OR Collins, I cant imagine a late 30's QB would return to ride the pine. But hey, weirder things have happened.

If he's cut or retires he wont get his salary. The Skins would only have to account for the pro-rated bonus money (which he has already been paid) that's why the team would see a cap savings if he isn't on the team next year.

skins2357 wrote:so what Im getting from your knowledge of the cap is that it would cost us the same if he retires or we cut him? I would think that if he retires we should'nt have to pay his remaining salary ( but that is just what I think, Im not implying that I have any knowledge of the cap).

I guess what people don't realize (seemingly ever!) is that the signing bonus is a SIGNING bonus.... that means that the player is owed that money the MOMENT they sign the contract.

The league lets the teams pro-rate that bonus money amount out over the length of the contract - but that doesn't mean the player didn't 'earn' their bonus.... the moment they inked the deal, they'd earned the bonus.

It's GUARANTEED money, they get it no matter what happens.

The player's annual salaries that go along with that bonus are NOT guaranteed, so if the contract is terminated at ANY point, those annual salaries do not have to be paid - just the original bonus money.

Whether he retires before the end of the contract or not has absolutely NO bearing on receiving that signing bonus money.... like i said... it was a bonus for signing the contract.

So why should the payout be any different if he was cut or if he retired?

Boss Hog comes with game. That's great info well presented.

Barring injury or a Ramsey like reaction to being benched, if he's not the starter going into 07, I have to think that Mark will be back next year as the backup given his competitive nature and Gibbs' extreme dedication to him.

Gnome wrote:Boss Hog comes with game. That's great info well presented.

Barring injury or a Ramsey like reaction to being benched, if he's not the starter going into 07, I have to think that Mark will be back next year as the backup given his competitive nature and Gibbs' extreme dedication to him.

While I agree that Brunell could still be a solid veteran back-up QB in this league, would he be too much of a temptation to Gibbs? Look how eager Gibbs was to get him back in there in '05. Campbell was here then; he saw that. How will his confidence be affected if he knows he could be yanked for even one bad quarter and replaced with Brunell? I'm not sure I'd favor Brunell sticking around as a back-up.

The difference being that Campbell is Gibbs' guy. He hand selected him to lead this team to glory. Ramsey was Spurrier's guy, and part of the plan to regaining success in the NFL IMHO was the necessity to clean out the locker room of anyone tainted by the Spurrier regime.

JansenFan wrote:The difference being that Campbell is Gibbs' guy. He hand selected him to lead this team to glory. Ramsey was Spurrier's guy, and part of the plan to regaining success in the NFL IMHO was the necessity to clean out the locker room of anyone tainted by the Spurrier regime.

I'd be more willing to buy into that reasoning if Gibbs would actually play Campbell, which he hasn't so far.

thanks for the info bosshof. You cleared up my questions!!

BRUNNEL NEEDS TO GO!

Thanks Gnome.

No probs skins2357.

My best cap advice? Never believe a word you hear about cap, salaries or anything related in the media... they honestly and truly do not understand the cap.

If you ever need a cap question answered, post it here and 1niksder or I will be happy to give or get you the PROPER information. It might not always be within aminutes of you posting, but we will generally make sure you aren't left dangling too long.

And always remember to use the search function because honestly, it's doubtful you'll ask a question that hasn't been answered before. So please have a quick looksee first, but don't be afraid to ask if you can't find your answer.

What I can't get over is the fact we pay 49 million for Brunell's services!

This team truly is the last stop before retirement for players in this league, if the fact that a geriatric washed up QB who didn't have it in his prime can come here and make that kinda money for services he provides proves that the personel management of this team is FUBAR.

Is Brunells play worth $49 million?

AA is the highest paid saftey in the NFL!

What the hell is wrong with the Redskins front office?

Can Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato please take a vacation together and never return!

nuskins wrote:What I can't get over is the fact we pay 49 million for Brunell's services!

This team truly is the last stop before retirement for players in this league, if the fact that a geriatric washed up QB who didn't have it in his prime can come here and make that kinda money for services he provides proves that the personel management of this team is FUBAR.

Is Brunells play worth $49 million?

AA is the highest paid saftey in the NFL!

What the hell is wrong with the Redskins front office?

Can Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato please take a vacation together and never return!

What you mean by $49 million I'm not sure. . .since one can equally argue that we actually are paying $5.4 million. . .since that's what he's actually making / hitting the cap with this year. (That doesn't sound so bad, really. . .it all depends on how you look at it).

One thing that is clear, however, is that one should never criticize the front office based on contract totals. It's this same fallacy that leads the media to continually declare a "cap hell" for Washington that never arrives. Criticize them for their acquisitions, sure, but money management is NOT one of their problems.

In my opinion, the question is: Going into this season, was the quarterback that led us to the playoffs last year worth a $5.4 million dollar contract? Maybe, maybe not. . .we know better now but at the time it wasn't clear. Oh well.