The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The sack leader for rookies (and third overall in the entire league) is Mike Anderson, a 6th round pick by Chicago. He's got 6.5 sacks so far, and he's not even a starter! Meanwhile, our big free-agent pick-up, Carter, has 2 and while I don't have the exact numbers, I'll bet he's counting more against the cap than Anderson, a 6th rounder.

In fact, if you look over the depth chart for Chicago's defense, they drafted or signed as undrafted free agents 10 of their 11 starters. Adewale Ogunleye (DE) is the only guy they didn't develop themselves, but he's been there three years now. Interesting.

Hungry players play nasty...we've got a bunch of fat cats playing line kittens because win or lose, they go back to the locker room put on the 50 thousand dollar necklace, go to the parking lot and get into the 130k Bentley GT, and go home to their 2 million dollar house and watch the night games on a 10 thousand dollar TV. Through in a beautiful woman and a bottle of Vueve and before you know it...it's Monday already

Life sucks when you lose.

The Hogster wrote:Hungry players play nasty...we've got a bunch of fat cats playing line kittens because win or lose, they go back to the locker room put on the 50 thousand dollar necklace, go to the parking lot and get into the 130k Bentley GT, and go home to their 2 million dollar house and watch the night games on a 10 thousand dollar TV. Through in a beautiful woman and a bottle of Vueve and before you know it...it's Monday already

Life sucks when you lose.

Bingo EXACTLY that to me is exactly how I feel, this team has no accountability and the whole Gibbs deals with things internally is a crock. Is it me or does anyone else remember the first tenure with Gibbs when he got so angry he picked up a garbage can and threw it? This man shows no emotions other than that sickly cackle he calls a laugh, what is so wrong with showing anger or disappointment? I mean yeah he says all the politically correct things, but the last thing I remember was he is a head coach first and not a politician. I would really like to see what would happen if he publically called out players, namely Brunell and see what that would do, this empathetic no emotional press conferences are sickening. His inability to show any anger, disappointment shows why this team never achieves what it should. Just about every coach I have ever seen gets emotional when thier team is playing like a bunch of scabs, but not Ole Joe! Yeah he sends messages by cutting a wide reciever last year for a fumble but won't bench a QB that anyone that has 1/2 of any eyesight and pays attention can see he no longer can get the job done. He trades away future draft picks that can be built up to stardom such as Antonio Pierce or let's hungry players go because they are sick of losing. Then we have so many people that just can't see the forrest for the tree's all because of what HE DID over a decade ago. Believe me if a coach gets complacent as it appears Joe has how can we as fans ever expect the team to have any emotion or accountability? This team has no identity because we have a "nice guy" running things and can't be the hard ass this team needs to get past rough spots. I really never thought I would say this but I wonder how great this team would be if someone like Bill Parcell's was the head coach, I wonder what our record would be because Bill doesn't concern himself with being and playing nice, he is a hired gun and doesn't care what anyone says about a team that underperforms. To me as a fan and as a season ticket holder it's simply torture to see a 2007 Porsche Carerra out there and then seeing a 99 year old half blind woman attempting to drive the car on a race course! There is no reason why this team isn't undefeated with PROPER HARD NOSE COACHING and ACCOUNTABILITY, but we can't expect that because we have someone that is old and soft, someone that wears blinders but again it's all okay for the players and the coach because he has 5 million reasons a year to continue to do exactly what he has done since coming back, for Joe Gibbs the superbowl isn't in Febuary anymore it's Free Agent signing time, because every year on paper we are super bowl winners. And hey from March to September the Redskins are Super Bowl Champions!

Exactly guys that are already proven aren't driven to do well because they have already proven they can play in the league. If you want to win you need young hungry players that have something to prove. IN free agency all you get is second hand players. These are guys that have flaws and that is why there let go. You get great players through the draft.
Past Superbowl champs
New England they got their players through the draft.
Pittsburg- Big Ben, Hines Ward, Joey Porter, Troy.
Tampa- Lynch, Sapp, Brocks, Barber. They got their players through the draft.
I am not saying you can't sign a free agent here and there, but your core players have to come from the draft to win in the superbowl.

I'm tired of evryone trash talkin gibbs it's not his fault he has done evrything he can possibly do to make this team good if you want to blame someone blame gregg williams

gibbs#1 wrote:I'm tired of evryone trash talkin gibbs it's not his fault he has done evrything he can possibly do to make this team good if you want to blame someone blame gregg williams

Sorry but as head coach Gibbs gets the bulk of the blame, Gibbs went to Williams, not the other way around. Also Gibbs needed to take more of an active role on the defense, that way we wouldn't have simpletons like Dale Lindsey trash talking LaVar the week before a game where we got beat. Face it Gibbs doesn't have the nasty mean streak a HC should have in todays NFL, save the nice traits for your grandkids and be the hard nose ass that it takes to give this team an identity. Gibbs has not done everything because if he had he would have made sure Ryan Clark, Antonio Pierce were still here and not wasted so much money on a bust like Andre Carter and Adam Archuleta! I also think that LaVar leaving here is also a direct result of Gibbs not doing what he should have. Yeah screw over the most recognized Redskin and continue to start a second rate player like Warrick Holdman! All that speaks volumes as to why this team is struggling as it is, it starts with Joe Jackson Gibbs and for you to not see that is remarkable. Remember what Gibbs did over a decade ago has nothing to do with the lack of things he is doing to date.

It's like we forgot that we were 10 -6 last year...

jw

jDub wrote:It's like we forgot that we were 10 -6 last year...

jw

Yeah thats the thing about being a Redskin fan. When we win one game its Gibbs for Most Valuable Coach but when we lose one single game its back on the "who we gonna draft, brunell sucks, blah blah blah"

I say not only are the Redskins inconsistent but so are we in our outlook on the team (not everyone).

I heard Doc Walker on the radio mentioning Gibbs and he said you will know when he's mad (in the locker room) but will never ever show a pulse outside of it or single out a player.

Doc also went on in saying that it was other coaches like Wayne Sevier, LB's coaches, DB's coaches that played the bad guys and were completely different approach (thug style) then Gibbs.

The Hogster wrote:Hungry players play nasty...we've got a bunch of fat cats playing line kittens because win or lose, they go back to the locker room put on the 50 thousand dollar necklace, go to the parking lot and get into the 130k Bentley GT, and go home to their 2 million dollar house and watch the night games on a 10 thousand dollar TV. Through in a beautiful woman and a bottle of Vueve and before you know it...it's Monday already

Life sucks when you lose.

That's all very well, but I suspect that those who argue against all of our "fat cat" players, are also the same people who complain about having let Pierce, Smoot and Clark go. If they were all still here, then they'd all be Redskins fat cats right now, and we'd all be complaining about them as well.

In other words, we're doomed either way.

We tried two rookies at defensive tackle on Sunday - how did that work out? People like Rumph and Wright should be pretty darn hungry, but they're not playing like it. Lemar Marshall is probably hungry, but he's not lighting up the league this year.

Again, we're doomed either way.

And yes - life certainly does suck when you lose.

As far as 'sticking' with the draft, we did happen to draft two defensive linemen (tackles, as defensive ends were not our weakest position), and the 6th rounder has been playing better than the 5th rounder.

Carlos Rogers, another draft choice, hasn't played well and neither have FAs Archuleta or Carter.

However, Griffin, Salave'a, Washington, Daniels, and Springs were all FA pickups. It's hard to condemn that strategy without noting our past success. (Portis, Moss, Rabach, Thomas, hopefully one or two more receivers, Sellers). Who knows if sticking with the draft would have brought us that much talent.

When you're losing, any current strategy looks bad and the grass will be greener on the other side. So, in conclusion, I agree that it looks like our FA building this year was not done well, and that we neglected to recruit youth and hang on to the right players.

With all of the success that most teams are having with players they have drafted in the later rounds, I think Gibbs should trade any players that are over 24 and any draft picks above the 4th round and just stack this team up with a bunch of really hungry, very competitive players like Tom Brady et al. That will cut down on costs and give us a really great young team.

As far as 'sticking' with the draft, we did happen to draft two defensive linemen (tackles, as defensive ends were not our weakest position), and the 6th rounder has been playing better than the 5th rounder.

Carlos Rogers, another draft choice, hasn't played well and neither have FAs Archuleta or Carter.

However, Griffin, Salave'a, Washington, Daniels, and Springs were all FA pickups. It's hard to condemn that strategy without noting our past success. (Portis, Moss, Rabach, Thomas, hopefully one or two more receivers, Sellers). Who knows if sticking with the draft would have brought us that much talent.

When you're losing, any current strategy looks bad and the grass will be greener on the other side. So, in conclusion, I agree that it looks like our FA building this year was not done well, and that we neglected to recruit youth and hang on to the right players. Smile

Nobody is saying we shouldn't sign free agents. The point is that you need balance between the two. The draft is the best way to ensure that you have enough depth on your team and it's pretty obvious that we are very very thin at certain positions, and I think that is a result of trading away too many draft picks. The other important thing to do is devlope and retain your own players, and we haven't done a good job of that either.

SkinzCanes wrote:
Nobody is saying we shouldn't sign free agents. The point is that you need balance between the two. The draft is the best way to ensure that you have enough depth on your team and it's pretty obvious that we are very very thin at certain positions, and I think that is a result of trading away too many draft picks. The other important thing to do is devlope and retain your own players, and we haven't done a good job of that either.

How would we have more depth?

There is no roster waivers for draft picks, the team would still have the same number of players and the roster would have been configured with the same number of position players. Which means the Skins would be in the same boat but would have less experinced players to turn to.

1niksder wrote:How would we have more depth?

There is no roster waivers for draft picks, the team would still have the same number of players and the roster would have been configured with the same number of position players. Which means the Skins would be in the same boat but would have less experinced players to turn to.

The argument can be made that we give away (on average) more than 1 draft pick for an acquisition. This is also the case with the draft choices Rocky, Campbell, and ey (and possibly others; these are the only ones that I know of). Portis took away a good player and a draft pick.

My guess is that these things add up and reduce the Redskins resources to acquire talent, because there is limited talent and most of it is snatched up in the draft. The Redskins are left to sign either undrafted players or pick up players that other teams cut. (Wright, Rumph--sort of--and the secondary in particular has some of these).

No matter what we'll always have the most players that we can, but I think the pool is sometimes dry when you go to grab those final players to fill out the depth chart.


All of this, of course, is my best guess. In order to really know if we've lost out on the ability to pick up talent we'd have to see where each one of our draft picks went when traded for a player. Or, in the case of draft picks, what additional picks were traded to acquire the spot that let us draft the player.

For instance, Portis cost a 1st rounder, Jason another 1st(?), Lloyd a 3rd and 4th, ey a 2nd or a 3rd, Rocky a 2nd or a 3rd, and so on. I've looked for that kind of a list before but haven't really found it. THN has a pretty good transaction section, but it hasn't let me put every piece together.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Jake wrote:Hindsight is 20/20.

Yes, and . . . ?

The reason one studies history is to avoid repeating it, like how the Redskins seem to keep repeating losing seasons.

Mursilis wrote:

Jake wrote:Hindsight is 20/20.

Yes, and . . . ?

The reason one studies history is to avoid repeating it, like how the Redskins seem to keep repeating losing seasons.

And, if I wanted to be really clever, I'd say that hindsight is only 20/20 if you open both eyes.

But I'm not that clever, so I don't really know what that means anyway.

There is no roster waivers for draft picks, the team would still have the same number of players and the roster would have been configured with the same number of position players. Which means the Skins would be in the same boat but would have less experinced players to turn to.

Right because being "experienced" has really helped Wright and Rumph this season. Like Irn-Bru said, when you constantly trade away draft picks you have to fill your roster with either undrafted rookies or players that nobody else wants. Just look at the Patriots or Eagles. Every time they have an injury they are able to plug their holes with young players that they got through the draft, and not outcasts like Rumph. We might have a coner starting on Sunday that the 49ers didn't even want on their team. That is absurd. I don't know about you, but I would much rather have a young player on the team that the coaches could develop than a guy like Rumph who clearly doesn't have what it takes. You can argue all you want, but the fact is that the teams that consistantly do well in the NFL build through the draft and value their draft picks.

Yes hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight Archuleta is a bust.

In hindsight Andre Carter makes me miss Grandpa Bruce at DE

In hindsight foresight and in all sight Brunell is NOT GOING TO WIN US A SB! LISTEN TO MADDEN ...Joe LISTEN TO MADDEN!!!

In a positive hindsight Santana Moss is still the best WR in the game and thats the only reason someone in WAS hasn't put a hit out on boonell.

The people in this thread saying Gibbs isn't tough or hardnosed or a thug or whatever....I suppose we should fire Joe Gibbs and hire say Mike Ditka? No, the fact is there is no person on the FACE OF THE PLANET better suited to win a SB for the WAS redskins than Gibbs ONLY PROBLEM is Joe has Married himself to MB, it's like Mark has nudey pics of Gibbs doing something awful, in a league where the super bowl champ qb is a rookie and top 5 qb's include Gradkowsky and Grossman, we need to ___ or get off the pot with Jason Campbell. Does he have something to contribute, is he the future or not, I hate seeing us do to him what we just went through with Patrick and IT'S JOE's call, problem is Joe's wife Mark is not going anywhere.

I hate to say it but man Gibbs is too stubborn right now.

UK Skins Fan wrote:And, if I wanted to be really clever, I'd say that hindsight is only 20/20 if you open both eyes.

And to open both eyes is to admit that you are human.




(no, I don't know what that means)

Irn-Bru wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:And, if I wanted to be really clever, I'd say that hindsight is only 20/20 if you open both eyes.

And to open both eyes is to admit that you are human.




(no, I don't know what that means)

If both eyes aren't open during the actual event, would hindsight still be 20/20 or would it be 15/20 or 25/20 or something like that?

Do you need eyes for hindsight considering you're not really "looking" at anything?

1niksder wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:And, if I wanted to be really clever, I'd say that hindsight is only 20/20 if you open both eyes.

And to open both eyes is to admit that you are human.




(no, I don't know what that means)

If both eyes aren't open during the actual event, would hindsight still be 20/20 or would it be 15/20 or 25/20 or something like that?

Do you need eyes for hindsight considering you're not really "looking" at anything?

This is beginning to sound like a late night arts program on the BBC; "This week, Octavia Crud and Herman Sherman discuss the depiction of hindsight in Oswald Peabody's new movie - Insight, Hindsight, and the Human Condition".

Now, what the hell was the question again?

Ah yes, I remember now - the draft.

One thought that did just cross my mind was that, just for once, I'd like us to have a team of players that nobody else has heard of at the time we sign them, but everybody knows who they are when they've finished.

Contrast that with the fact that we keep signing players that everybody has heard of when we sign them, but by the time they leave Washington, everybody's forgotten them.