The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

i assume you all have seen this clip of his "tackle" of larry johnson, you know, the one where he grabbed his facemask while running at full speed and intentionally yanked his head 180 degrees to avoid giving up a touchdown, since he had no chance of "tackling" him otherwise.

i am absolutely astounded at the lack of outrage over this travesty. he could have KILLED the man, and it's almost a miracle johnson wasn't paralyzed. i know many will say "he was just trying to bring him down, it's part of the game". but that is incorrect. he had no chance at a legal tackle and intentionally did something extremely dangerous that is NOT protected by the rules of football.

he should have been ejected from the game when it happened, and suspended for at least 2 full games afterward. the NFL simply can not set a precedent that something like this is at all an acceptable "part of the game".

I agree, the league does everything it can to fine people for their socks and endzone celebrations but does nothing about a potentially crippling (and illegal) play

First of all I am glad to see Larry Johnson is okay.

Second of all, I don't think there was anything malicious about the tackle... but it is shocking that was Rolle's first reaction, to grab the facemask.

I think the NFL should have made an example of him and suspended him for a couple games... but it doesn't look like that will happen.

Immagine how close we came to drafting Rolle or Pacman Jones... both of whom are thugs and terrible players compared to Carlos Rogers. It's amazing we made the right choice all along.

Skinsfan55 wrote:First of all I am glad to see Larry Johnson is okay.

Second of all, I don't think there was anything malicious about the tackle... but it is shocking that was Rolle's first reaction, to grab the facemask.

I think the NFL should have made an example of him and suspended him for a couple games... but it doesn't look like that will happen.

Immagine how close we came to drafting Rolle or Pacman Jones... both of whom are thugs and terrible players compared to Carlos Rogers. It's amazing we made the right choice all along.

yes... as bad as rogers has looked at times he is world-class compared to the pure trash of rolle and pac-man.

also, i agree, i don't think it was "malicious" either, i just think it was incredibly dangerous and not protected by the rules. in my mind that's good enough for some pretty severe punishment... you have to deter dangerous behaviour like this even if it's not done with the intent to harm.

Well yeah, what I was saying was that I think it was shocking that grabbing Johnson's facemask even crossed his mind.

It's like in the 2004 MLB playoffs.

Alex Rodriquez grounds a ball to Bronson Arroyo, and there's a footrace to the bag... Because he is getting beaten Rodriquez slaps out at Arroyo's wrist and knocks the ball away.

It was a heat of the moment decision, but an extremely stupid one. It surprised me that his first reaction was to slap the ball away, why would that even cross someone's mind as a viable course of action?

Later on in the World Series an almost identical play happens, this time it was Scott Rolen who grounded to the pitcher (or 1B I can't remember) there was a race to the bag and instead of slapping the ball away he tried to dive under the tag...

It didn't work, but it sure made a whole lot more sense that slapping like a little girl.

Here.

I'm not sure how you guys can say that the facemask was intentional. Many dbacks tackle high with their arms these days. It looked to me like he was just trying to reach out and get any piece he could of Johnson to bring him down.

Plus, I'm sure Rolle was mocking him by praying for him with other players (some from the Chiefs) while Johnson was down and hanging aroung him to see if he was okay.

Poor tackling? No doubt. A travesty? Come on.

Eh, let's be clear, I am not in the camp saying he was malicious in his intent, just that I see a certain amount of hypocrisy in the reaction to socks vs. the reaction to that play. I also think it's reasonable to say he intentionally grabbed for the face mask, based on that replay. I do think he should face some additional fine but I'm not certain this is a suspension-worthy offense.

I don't know how you can see that video and NOT think he grabbed for the facemask.

To me he reached right for the mask, then pulled him down, twisted his neck and threw him to the turf.

He reached out and grabbed for whatever he could get. Once he realized he had the facemask, he should have let go, but facemasks happen all the time without any additional fine or suspension. This one seemed egregious in nature, but only because of the way his helmet flipped around and the fact that he was hurt.

That's a legitimate point, I reacted more to the speed of the play

Skinsfan55 wrote:I don't know how you can see that video and NOT think he grabbed for the facemask.

To me he reached right for the mask, then pulled him down, twisted his neck and threw him to the turf.

So we should probably arrest him, fine him, and charge him with attempted murder, right? (Don't forget the medal of honor for the cop that brings him in. . .) (Just playing, SF55)


Looks like he was more interested in a tackle than a penalty or an injury. If you realize that you have someone's facemask (but it's all that you have), there is a split second decision where you have to decide whether to stick with the tackle or let him go for the TD. My guess is that he had no time to weigh the options and figure out whether or not he might injure him. . .all Rolle was likely 'thinking' was ". . . ." as his reactions made the play.

With something like that, though, a fine or suspension--however the league decides--is probably in order. Intent or no, that was a rough and dirty tackle, however you slice it.

I don't think he intended to hurt johnson either...because of the outcome to johnson, everything thinks a suspension is neccessary, but if johnson got right back up, this thread wouldn't exist. I'm glad johnson's ok and i think it's part of football...it's not like he cleated the guy.

but i do wonder sometimes, if it were sean taylor that made that tackle, if he wouldn't be suspended because of his reputation. taylor was getting ticky tacky personal fouls against the cowboys where i think any other player wouldn't get that kind of call. so i just wonder....

Immagine how close we came to drafting Rolle or Pacman Jones... both of whom are thugs and terrible players compared to Carlos Rogers. It's amazing we made the right choice all along.

That wasn't intentional at all. All he was trying to do was tackle him and he reached for whatever he could get. This is how most facemak penalties happen, this one just looked worse because they were moving moving quickly. As for Rolle being a thug, that's just retarded. He was very well respected when he played at Miami and was a team leader. Comparing him to Pac Man Jones is absurd. Rolle is clearly the best player out of the 3 corners drafted in the top 10 and I definately wish that we had been able to draft him. He hasn't gotten into any trouble in the NFL, unlike Jones, and he has played much better than either Rogers or Jones.

NOTE- Hyperbole works both ways I guess... Calling Jones and Rolle terrible players and now SC saying Rolle is clearly the best CB of the 2005 draft, lol.

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He reached up high, and grabbed the facemask, from the way his hand was positioned it seemed to me he meant to grab the facemask.

It all happened "in the moment" so I don't think he was running up the sideline thinking about pulling Johnson down by the mask, but when he reached him, for whatever reason his move was made at the facemask. It's clear from the replays.

Now, when the draft was approaching I wanted Antrel Rolle for the Redskins. I love big cornerbacks who can play run support... and had barely even heard of Carlos Rogers...

But to say Rolle has clearly outplayed him?

In their first season, Rogers played more often forcing two fumbles, picking off two passes and making 39 solo tackles all while displaying excellent ability in open field tackling, which is a pretty huge plus for a cornerback.

Rolle played 5 games total with an interception and also showing good tackling skills.

This season they have each started every game and have nearly identical statistics, although, with Springs out of the lineup Rogers has been playing vs. our opponent's best reciever.

Even Scouts Inc, a nuetral, third party scouting agency that provides ESPN's player scouting reports for insider (among other things) gives Rogers a slight edge on Rolle in their scouting score. (71-70 in favor of Rogers.)

Now Rogers is approximately a year and a half older so it could be that Rolle catches up to him in terms of ability, but as of right now Rogers is the better corner, and he still has a lot of room to grow.

Now Rogers is approximately a year and a half older so it could be that Rolle catches up to him in terms of ability, but as of right now Rogers is the better corner, and he still has a lot of room to grow.

Tell me how many Arizona games you have watched this season. I'm willing to bet the answer is zero. I've seen every one of their games but the last one. Rolle is clearly playing much better than Rogers right now. All that Rogers has accomplished this season so far is getting burned deep, playing too soft on important downs, dropping int's, missing tackles, and getting called for pass intereference.

SkinzCanes wrote:

Now Rogers is approximately a year and a half older so it could be that Rolle catches up to him in terms of ability, but as of right now Rogers is the better corner, and he still has a lot of room to grow.

Tell me how many Arizona games you have watched this season. I'm willing to bet the answer is zero. I've seen every one of their games but the last one. Rolle is clearly playing much better than Rogers right now. All that Rogers has accomplished this season so far is getting burned deep, playing too soft on important downs, dropping int's, missing tackles, and getting called for pass intereference.

Maybe you should become a Cards fan then.

Also, did you forget how Carlos is covering the best WR on the other team and Rolle is not?

Maybe you should become a Cards fan then.

Also, did you forget how Carlos is covering the best WR on the other team and Rolle is not?

So in other words you've seen zero Cardinals. Just like I thought. Also Rogers doesn't exclusively cover other teams' wide receivers. And Rolle gets about as much help from Green, Tate, and Macklin as Rogers gets from Rumph, AA, and Wright. I said it before Rogers got drafted and I'll say it again, he isn't a very good corner.

SkinzCanes wrote:

Maybe you should become a Cards fan then.

Also, did you forget how Carlos is covering the best WR on the other team and Rolle is not?

So in other words you've seen zero Cardinals. Just like I thought. Also Rogers doesn't exclusively cover other teams' wide receivers. And Rolle gets about as much help from Green, Tate, and Macklin as Rogers gets from Rumph, AA, and Wright. I said it before Rogers got drafted and I'll say it again, he isn't a very good corner.

Rogers isn't a very good corner? That's a pretty stupid thing to say considering how he's consistently proven that opinion wrong over and over again. Anyway, I'll take the opinion of professional scouts rather than a biase fan of the U's any day.

Also, it looks like the NFL did fine Antrel Rolle, 12,500 dollars. That's his second fine this season, the latest being more than twice as much as he was fined for his illegal tackle against Shaun Alexander (5,000).

Now Rolle is making approx. 350,000 dollars according to the NFLPA (seems pretty low, but it does look backloaded and this may only be gtd money. Hopefully these sums of money are enough to jolt him into playing by the rules.

Rogers isn't a very good corner? That's a pretty stupid thing to say considering how he's consistently proven that opinion wrong over and over again

How about some examples of when he has proven it. When he dropped the int against Seattle last season? The int dropped against the Giants? When he was getting beat time and time again by Dallas and Houston? Not sure what your point is about Rolle getting fined. Sean Taylor has been fined a bunch of times and I don't see him catching much flack for it. Usually the argument starts with "The NFL hates the Skins so they fined Taylor...."

Um ... SF55, I'd really like to be on the C-Rog bandwagon but to suggest his play has been stellar thus far this season simply has no factual basis ... he (and the secondary in general) has been less than impressive

SkinzCanes wrote:

Maybe you should become a Cards fan then.

Also, did you forget how Carlos is covering the best WR on the other team and Rolle is not?

So in other words you've seen zero Cardinals. Just like I thought. Also Rogers doesn't exclusively cover other teams' wide receivers. And Rolle gets about as much help from Green, Tate, and Macklin as Rogers gets from Rumph, AA, and Wright. I said it before Rogers got drafted and I'll say it again, he isn't a very good corner.

I know, what was Gibbs thinking??? I mean, Mike Williams was still on the board!

And as for Rolle... It's FOOTBALL. Yes, the face mask tug was probably a little unecssary, but when LJ is running loose for like a 70 yard gain, you have to grab anything you can to prevent him from scoring a TD.

Rolle just had a bad angle, so once he had the facemask, he just turned LJ's head 180 degress.

Fios wrote:Um ... SF55, I'd really like to be on the C-Rog bandwagon but to suggest his play has been stellar thus far this season simply has no factual basis ... he (and the secondary in general) has been less than impressive

Dropping INT's doesn't bother me at all... it's still knocking down a pass...

Anyway, I think Rogers has been doing a good job, all things considered. He's lining up on the other team's #1 guy, and he's showing solid tackling ability.

He's impressed me with some things he's done, but of course there is room for improvement.

I just object to someone saying he isn't any good.

you kill me sf55....to quote Thornton Mellon about prof. turgeson in the movie 'Back to School'...."you really seem to care....about what I have no idea".....


JESUS SF55.... Carlos Rogers IS terrible, and the fact that your excuse is that he has to cover #1 WRS is INSANE!!!!


He is supposed to be that guy that can cover elite receivers!!!!!!

For god sakes, he was a high first round pick, and the excuse that Springs has been out and Rogers is outmatched is frankly growing old right now.

Our secondary....besided Sean Taylor, is a JOKE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNEGFWz-Bso

Jesus.