The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

1.) How many times can Gibbs use the same verse? After every loss it is the same .." we played a good football team, every team can beat you, we didn't play Redskins football, it is a collective effort, we need to get better"...blah, blah, blah It's one thing to be critical of individual players, it's another to give the same canned answers after every loss.

2.) Interesting point on play calling. Al needs to take over the reigns completely, Gibbs said that when they are inside the 40 yd line that critical 3rd and 4th down plays come from him, decisions like the asinine 3rd & 1 and we pass, or the 4th down FG when we are getting manhandled and need 7 at least, that FG was the most chicken call in that situation I have seen and they are coming from Gibbs. How in the world can Al do his job if he's handcuffed? You mean to tell me that with CP, Mike Sellers, Ladell Betts, and TJ DUCKETT we couldn't convert that 3rd & 1 with one of those guys? Instead we want Brunell throwing into double coverage? Absurd!

3.) Brunell has the composure of a beaten man. It is rare for him to ever shoulder responsiblity for his poor play. It's almost the same canned garbage we get from Gibbs everytime he gets smoked.

4.) Gibbs looks whipped....he really seems to take these losses bad and really I have heard no good explanations. Where is the fire? Where is the individual accountability. Gibbs cannot shoulder it all as he tries to do nor should he have to. We have the most expensive team and coaches in the NFL and poor Gibbs is the whipping post week in and week out.

Gibbs needs to call out the team once in while and challenge them instead of regurgitating the same old story.

nuskins wrote:1.) How many times can Gibbs use the same verse? After every loss it is the same .." we played a good football team, every team can beat you, we didn't play Redskins football, it is a collective effort, we need to get better"...blah, blah, blah It's one thing to be critical of individual players, it's another to give the same canned answers after every loss.

2.) Interesting point on play calling. Al needs to take over the reigns completely, Gibbs said that when they are inside the 40 yd line that critical 3rd and 4th down plays come from him, decisions like the asinine 3rd & 1 and we pass, or the 4th down FG when we are getting manhandled and need 7 at least, that FG was the most chicken call in that situation I have seen and they are coming from Gibbs. How in the world can Al do his job if he's handcuffed? You mean to tell me that with CP, Mike Sellers, Ladell Betts, and TJ DUCKETT we couldn't convert that 3rd & 1 with one of those guys? Instead we want Brunell throwing into double coverage? Absurd!

3.) Brunell has the composure of a beaten man. It is rare for him to ever shoulder responsiblity for his poor play. It's almost the same canned garbage we get from Gibbs everytime he gets smoked.

4.) Gibbs looks whipped....he really seems to take these losses bad and really I have heard no good explanations. Where is the fire? Where is the individual accountability. Gibbs cannot shoulder it all as he tries to do nor should he have to. We have the most expensive team and coaches in the NFL and poor Gibbs is the whipping post week in and week out.

Gibbs needs to call out the team once in while and challenge them instead of regurgitating the same old story.

amen.
if gibbs is in fact taking over playcalling at any point of the game, it 100% defeats the point of bringing in saunders at all. he led the #1 offense over the past 5 years! let the man make the calls!!!

the only other thing i'll comment about is that i watched the game again, including that 3rd and 1 over and over. brunell had a back (sellers i believe) sliding out WIDE OPEN out of the backfield, would have been an easy, EASY first down. but brunell seemed to panic even though the pass rush was still 5 or more steps away from him, and unloaded it early into double coverage. he didn't even GLANCE over at the wide open RB.

You call it "canned" answers, I call it class. Joe Gibbs and the entire Redskin organization are a class act, you don't see him calling out players, cursing or just acting like an asshat because we lose a game. He supports his players and the organization like a true class act head coach should. He takes as much blame as anyone else for the teams problems.... because he is a players coach. You keep the problems out of the media, otherwise you look like a bunch of morons like Parcells and the Cowboys....... which do you prefer?

redskins-28 wrote:You call it "canned" answers, I call it class. Joe Gibbs and the entire Redskin organization are a class act, you don't see him calling out players, cursing or just acting like an asshat because we lose a game. He supports his players and the organization like a true class act head coach should. He takes as much blame as anyone else for the teams problems.... because he is a players coach. You keep the problems out of the media, otherwise you look like a bunch of morons like Parcells and the Cowboys....... which do you prefer?

I prefer a coach to show some fire after his team doesn't show up to play for 3 out of the first 5 weeks. I'm not saying he should throw his players under the bus but his press conferences really have no substance.

nuskins wrote:

redskins-28 wrote:You call it "canned" answers, I call it class. Joe Gibbs and the entire Redskin organization are a class act, you don't see him calling out players, cursing or just acting like an asshat because we lose a game. He supports his players and the organization like a true class act head coach should. He takes as much blame as anyone else for the teams problems.... because he is a players coach. You keep the problems out of the media, otherwise you look like a bunch of morons like Parcells and the Cowboys....... which do you prefer?

I prefer a coach to show some fire after his team doesn't show up to play for 3 out of the first 5 weeks. I'm not saying he should throw his players under the bus but his press conferences really have no substance.

Gibbs does his best to give the press as little as posible every chance he gets. Rumor has it that he can be a very different person behind closed doors when he isn't happy.

redskins-28 wrote:You call it "canned" answers, I call it class. Joe Gibbs and the entire Redskin organization are a class act, you don't see him calling out players, cursing or just acting like an asshat because we lose a game. He supports his players and the organization like a true class act head coach should. He takes as much blame as anyone else for the teams problems.... because he is a players coach. You keep the problems out of the media, otherwise you look like a bunch of morons like Parcells and the Cowboys....... which do you prefer?

Yes, he is supporting players that don't give him 100% every week. On paper, and maybe that's the problem, this team is in the top five as far as talent but yet, this team that has the "players coach" finds a way to stink it up.

This is the National Football League not Pee Wee football. These guys are highly paid professionals that should not need any motivation or their backs against the wall to play for a HOF Coach that covers their azzez week in and week out. Even if they are still learning this offense, it still boils down to beating the guy across from you. That is something that the Coaches, and there are alot of them on this team, cannot do for these players because they are not on the field.

It is very evident that Brunell is a shell of his former self and on Sunday, got himself sacked twice. Joe Gibbs is protecting this guy to the detrimant of the team. If these guys were really behind Brunell, then why such a poor performance on Sunday against a defense that has been seriously struggling since the start of the season? Do these players really got his back??? The effort says no. It's like this team has no confidence what so ever in the #2 and #3 QBs because when the pitch forks and fires are out after Brunell, they rise up to save him the next week then fall back into the dumpster the following week. Just like this week coming. They will perform well and protect him against Tennessee and then lay another egg against Indy.... Yeah, I know, "you don't know that because the game has not been played yet". I am just going on experience and how this team has operated in the past. Especially the past two weeks...

This really boils down to what alot of the former players in this league have been saying for years: when you give players a ton of money, they lose their motivation, they lose their hunger. If I got a ton of money up front and good money over the next two-three years what is really my motivation when money and not rings are the goal?????

Think about it. Would you rather play for a guy who berates you in the media, or shifts the blame and pressure off you and handles negativity in private.

In the Marine Corps, it is a tought leadership skill. Praise in public, correct in private.

But what does Gibbs know about leadership? I'm sure he let's everything go. That's why he's never been successful at anything.

die cowboys die wrote:the only other thing i'll comment about is that i watched the game again, including that 3rd and 1 over and over. brunell had a back (sellers i believe) sliding out WIDE OPEN out of the backfield, would have been an easy, EASY first down. but brunell seemed to panic even though the pass rush was still 5 or more steps away from him, and unloaded it early into double coverage. he didn't even GLANCE over at the wide open RB.

In an interview yesterday Saunders said that on that 3rd and 1 they called the play that worked so well last year down near the goal line were Sellers goes in the flat and ey goes to the corner, forcing the D to either not cover the run, or ey, or Sellers. They could ploay for 2 of the 3 but not all 3 and Sellers was the guy that usually wasn't covered. He was the primary target, got wide open for at least a 6 or 7 yard gain, and Brunell chose to force the ball to a double covered ey. Good call, Brunell just didn't throw the ball to a wide open guy who was the primary receiver.

JansenFan wrote:Think about it. Would you rather play for a guy who berates you in the media, or shifts the blame and pressure off you and handles negativity in private.

In the Marine Corps, it is a tought leadership skill. Praise in public, correct in private.
But what does Gibbs know about leadership? I'm sure he let's everything go. That's why he's never been successful at anything.

Well it is apparent that him handling it in private ain't working because these guys are still stinking it up. They had momentum and confidence after beating a very good Jacksonville team and then come out against NY and stink up the joint.

What is there to "praise in public"?.... Look these are grown men being paid alot of money. These guys are not freshman at Maryland.

Did anyone ever think that over a decade away from the game may have a different effect on Gibbs and that he is not the same guy as he was back in the 1980's-early 90's. There is a big difference between managing a driver and pit crew and 53 individual corporations.

roybus14 wrote:There is a big difference between managing a driver and pit crew and 53 individual corporations.

Oh, please, enlighten us on those differences, using real-life experiences on how YOU'VE done that. That way, we can begin to take your criticism seriously.

Otherwise, it's just another stab from the peanut gallery.

I am almost tempted to take this to smack. I just cannot believe how everyone is getting down on Coach Gibbs. I mean really, there is no one and I mean no one that I would rather have as our head coach. It is ok to have an opinon but it is another to question the only coach that has ever done anything for the organization and how he handles things. The people that are down on him now will be his biggest praisers when we go on a winning streak. Gibbs knows what needs to be done and chooses to keep it private. What, would you rather have say Bill Parcells or The ol ball coach in charge??????????

roybus14 wrote:

JansenFan wrote:Think about it. Would you rather play for a guy who berates you in the media, or shifts the blame and pressure off you and handles negativity in private.

In the Marine Corps, it is a tought leadership skill. Praise in public, correct in private.
But what does Gibbs know about leadership? I'm sure he let's everything go. That's why he's never been successful at anything.

Well it is apparent that him handling it in private ain't working because these guys are still stinking it up. They had momentum and confidence after beating a very good Jacksonville team and then come out against NY and stink up the joint.

What is there to "praise in public"?.... Look these are grown men being paid alot of money. These guys are not freshman at Maryland.

Did anyone ever think that over a decade away from the game may have a different effect on Gibbs and that he is not the same guy as he was back in the 1980's-early 90's. There is a big difference between managing a driver and pit crew and 53 individual corporations.

Sorry man, but your analogy just doesn't work. You think that Joe Gibbs managed a driver and a pit crew and thats all there was to it. Look the guy has won at everything he's done ALL HIS LIFE, we played a bad game in a place that we usually play bad games in. You know your statement about grown men who make alot of money doesn't hold either, you think the Steelers are underpaid? the Patriots before that?

Look we played a bad game, and i know i appreciate the fact that Gibbs takes it all, i know his players appreciate it too. Maybe he should show a little more emotion maybe he shouldn't, but what i do know is that i'd rather have Joe Gibbs driving this bus instead of some young guy or coach re-tread. Our only championships are because of him and his leadership, leadership is not something that goes away because you change venues, it stays with you throughout your life....if you have it in you.

I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

The Hogster wrote:I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

Actually, I liked the call. Everyone says 3 and 1 equals run, so why not try a pass?!? I like taking chances. But I say that KNOWING I'd be going for it on 4th down. The FG attempt was conceding the game, basically.

Mursilis wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

Actually, I liked the call. Everyone says 3 and 1 equals run, so why not try a pass?!? I like taking chances. But I say that KNOWING I'd be going for it on 4th down. The FG attempt was conceding the game, basically.

I just like the message that it sends when on 3rd and 1, you can go man up, hit somebody in the mouth and get the first down, when they know that a run is likely coming.

Besides, we are a run-oriented team...if we are gonna play Redskins football we have to be able to get one yard when we need it.

We've had some recent luck with slot shots on third-and-short. I thought it was aggressive play calling, and worth a shot. Why not? Nothing else was clicking right then...why not a little something different to try and make something out of nothing?

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

roybus14 wrote:There is a big difference between managing a driver and pit crew and 53 individual corporations.

Oh, please, enlighten us on those differences, using real-life experiences on how YOU'VE done that. That way, we can begin to take your criticism seriously.

Otherwise, it's just another stab from the peanut gallery.

Lady or dude or whoever you are, this is just my opinion. So you are not a part of the same gallery??? Some of you people act as if Joe Gibbs is beyond criticism or questioning.

Yes, Joe Gibbs is a HOF Coach that bought us 3 rings in the glory days. Well, it's 2006, a decade plus removed from the last time he coached in the NFL. Based on what is put on the field week in and week out and comments from "real-life experienced" people that played for him, Joe Gibbs 2.0 is heck of alot different from Joe Gibbs 1.0.

You and the rest of us are outsiders looking in so what we have is our opinion's. Unless you are a Redskins "insider" that can put something credible on this board that can be backed up, you are just another peanut in this gallery too.

MY

Mursilis wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

Actually, I liked the call. Everyone says 3 and 1 equals run, so why not try a pass?!? I like taking chances. But I say that KNOWING I'd be going for it on 4th down. The FG attempt was conceding the game, basically.

i hate to steer the conversation this way, but i watched this play over and over again on tape, and the problem was NOT with the call, it was the execution.

brunell had mike sellers slipping out of the backfield absolutely wide open for a little dump-off pass to his left, no one in front of him, automatic first down. but brunell seemed to panic and unloaded the ball into double coverage, even though the pass rush was still about 5 or 6 steps away from him.

i can assure you the play call itself worked very well- brunell simply blew it, no way around it.

this being said, the decision not to go for it on 4th and 1 after that was inexcusable. whichever coach decided this should be permanently banned from the decision-making process... and how many of you think saunders actually didn't want to go for it???

die cowboys die wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

Actually, I liked the call. Everyone says 3 and 1 equals run, so why not try a pass?!? I like taking chances. But I say that KNOWING I'd be going for it on 4th down. The FG attempt was conceding the game, basically.

i hate to steer the conversation this way, but i watched this play over and over again on tape, and the problem was NOT with the call, it was the execution.

brunell had mike sellers slipping out of the backfield absolutely wide open for a little dump-off pass to his left, no one in front of him, automatic first down. but brunell seemed to panic and unloaded the ball into double coverage, even though the pass rush was still about 5 or 6 steps away from him.

i can assure you the play call itself worked very well- brunell simply blew it, no way around it.

this being said, the decision not to go for it on 4th and 1 after that was inexcusable. whichever coach decided this should be permanently banned from the decision-making process... and how many of you think saunders actually didn't want to go for it???

Are u sure you mean Sellers, I thought he sat out for this play and that's why he was so irritated after the game?

DCGloryYears828791 wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

Actually, I liked the call. Everyone says 3 and 1 equals run, so why not try a pass?!? I like taking chances. But I say that KNOWING I'd be going for it on 4th down. The FG attempt was conceding the game, basically.

i hate to steer the conversation this way, but i watched this play over and over again on tape, and the problem was NOT with the call, it was the execution.

brunell had mike sellers slipping out of the backfield absolutely wide open for a little dump-off pass to his left, no one in front of him, automatic first down. but brunell seemed to panic and unloaded the ball into double coverage, even though the pass rush was still about 5 or 6 steps away from him.

i can assure you the play call itself worked very well- brunell simply blew it, no way around it.

this being said, the decision not to go for it on 4th and 1 after that was inexcusable. whichever coach decided this should be permanently banned from the decision-making process... and how many of you think saunders actually didn't want to go for it???

Are u sure you mean Sellers, I thought he sat out for this play and that's why he was so irritated after the game?

Yes it was Sellers and he was wide open and the primary receiver (Saunders said that) for some stupid reason Brunell chose to throw to a guy that was double covered in stead of a guy that was wide open. This was the same play that Sellers scored 5 or 6 TDs on!

Great call - Brunell threw it to the wrong guy.

DCGloryYears828791 wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I agree that the 3rd and 1 play was ridiculous..how can you call yourself an NFC East team, when in an critical NFC East game on the road, you can't line up and pound the ball for a 1 yard gain?

If we were the E-gals it would make since, but no excuse for the Redskins to pass in that situation.

Actually, I liked the call. Everyone says 3 and 1 equals run, so why not try a pass?!? I like taking chances. But I say that KNOWING I'd be going for it on 4th down. The FG attempt was conceding the game, basically.

i hate to steer the conversation this way, but i watched this play over and over again on tape, and the problem was NOT with the call, it was the execution.

brunell had mike sellers slipping out of the backfield absolutely wide open for a little dump-off pass to his left, no one in front of him, automatic first down. but brunell seemed to panic and unloaded the ball into double coverage, even though the pass rush was still about 5 or 6 steps away from him.

i can assure you the play call itself worked very well- brunell simply blew it, no way around it.

this being said, the decision not to go for it on 4th and 1 after that was inexcusable. whichever coach decided this should be permanently banned from the decision-making process... and how many of you think saunders actually didn't want to go for it???

Are u sure you mean Sellers, I thought he sat out for this play and that's why he was so irritated after the game?

yes, as SkinsFan says, it was definitely sellers. i'm sure you are referring to the washington post article about this, i can't explain this. all i know is i have it on tape right in front of me as i type this and it's definitely #45.

Me and my Dad always joke about Gibbs' vauge press confrences. The one we like is the one you hear every week, win or lose: "our guys were fightn' their guts out."

I like it though, no one likes the media, so why give them what they want? If you really want to know whats going on, you have to stay up late enough to watch Redskins Report. Those guys know what they are talking about, and unlike Gibbs, have no reason to not get on idividual players.

Bump....Same story this week, yada, yada, yada. At least man up Joe, your getting smoked in every facet of the game and all you can say is that were in this together! Man, WE are all in this together, including the fans, so tell us something! I think EVERYONE is ready for some changes at QB but Gibbs. As I have stated since the begininng of this year and most of last year, Brunell is done. We need some fire on this team, looking at Brunells abd Gibbs attitude in public it certainly isn't going to come from them.

nuskins wrote:Bump....Same story this week, yada, yada, yada. At least man up Joe, your getting smoked in every facet of the game and all you can say is that were in this together! Man, WE are all in this together, including the fans, so tell us something! I think EVERYONE is ready for some changes at QB but Gibbs. As I have stated since the begininng of this year and most of last year, Brunell is done. We need some fire on this team, looking at Brunells abd Gibbs attitude in public it certainly isn't going to come from them.

Agreed. If you do one thing, at least admit Brunell needs to be benched and stop sticking up for the guy. It's time to play Campbell.

Burgandyandglory wrote:

nuskins wrote:Bump....Same story this week, yada, yada, yada. At least man up Joe, your getting smoked in every facet of the game and all you can say is that were in this together! Man, WE are all in this together, including the fans, so tell us something! I think EVERYONE is ready for some changes at QB but Gibbs. As I have stated since the begininng of this year and most of last year, Brunell is done. We need some fire on this team, looking at Brunells abd Gibbs attitude in public it certainly isn't going to come from them.

Agreed. If you do one thing, at least admit Brunell needs to be benched and stop sticking up for the guy. It's time to play Campbell.

So what did Gibbs say at the post-game (other than the obligatory "Mark Brunell is great" stuff we always get)? I couldn't watch it, I was so mad.